Krieghoff in 500-416 for a first double?

[Jörg Krüger]

Not to highjack this thread but a question from my side. What are the pros/cons on side by side vs over under in double rifles?

 

[machinistbutler]

Personal preference and nostalgia I suppose

The Johan Fanzoj and Krieghoff over under in last months auction here in Edmonton I think anyone would be proud to own.

I sure as heck would have loved to have one.

The books on Africa I have read since I was a kid put visions of a side by side double in my head for Africa that will forever be there.


The postman will not be able to get here quick enough.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Wonderful thread on the explanation/differences of double rifle calibers and intricacies between the different brands/models.

 

[Tanks]

In regards to extractors vs ejectors, my K-gun is fitted with what Krieghoff calls IES (intelligent ejector system). Break the rifle while it’s cocked and the spent shells eject, break the rifle uncocked and the shells are extracted. Best of both worlds.

...

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If the rifle is cocked I would assume the rounds are unfired and if it is uncocked then it has spent shells. Of course K-guns have a different cocking system so my Heym rifle logic might not apply.

 

[BeeMaa]

Not to highjack this thread but a question from my side. What are the pros/cons on side by side vs over under in double rifles?

On a SxS the action doesn't have to open as far to allow extraction and reloading of shells, this is a fact and it's indisputable.

It's also commonly said that loading is easier because it's easier to hold two shells side by side than it is up and down for an O/U. This could be argued (and has been) either way. It's all in how you have prepared for the hunt. I will not argue this point either way, no need to poke the bear.

The double rifle is a speciality tool for a specific job, and it does this job very well. The needs of a PH dictate a stopping caliber and most would say that starts at .450 caliber. Most manufacturers don't make O/U rifles in calibers of 450NE and above and I'd suspect that is because of both tradition and customer demand. From .375 down, there are several O/U options, but if you are talking DG....375 (or 9.3mm in some cases) is where you start.

The biggest benefit of an O/U is the ease of which they are regulated vs a SxS. Most of the time, they are much easier to do, but there are always exceptions on both sides.

Three rules of double rifles...
Use a rimmed cartridge instead of belted or rimless.
SxS configuration instead of O/U.
Double triggers instead of a single trigger.

Consider resale - It's said you can break any ONE of the three rules without taking a huge hit when trying to resell. Break TWO of them and it will be more difficult. All three...I think you get the point.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If the rifle is cocked I would assume the rounds are unfired and if it is uncocked then it has spent shells. Of course K-guns have a different cocking system so my Heym rifle logic might not apply.

It’s the way I said. K gun, like Blaser R8, has a cocking mechanism in place of safety. Just to clarify. With the cocking/safety switch in the ready to fire position, upon breaking the rifle open, the spent shells or shell eject, when it’s in the uncocked/safe position, they extract. You have the choice which one you’d rather, depending on the situation, right under your thumb.

 

[ay2626]

It’s the way I said. K gun, like Blaser R8, has a cocking mechanism in place of safety. Just to clarify. With the cocking/safety switch in the ready to fire position, upon breaking the rifle open, the spent shells or shell eject, when it’s in the uncocked/safe position, they extract. You have the choice which one you’d rather, depending on the situation, right under your thumb.

Does anyone know if this intelligent ejector system can be retrofitted to an older extractor K gun? I was pretty sure the answer was no, but more recently, I thought I heard differently. Just curious if anyone has successfully done that.

 

[cajunchefray]

Wondering what your opinions would be in getting a previously owned one of these for a.first double .

I have a CZ in 416 Rigby , from what I have read the 500-416 is similar, and should be good for a Buffalo. I also have a 458 Lott that is shooting well that would work for Buffalo as well.

I have been reading too much about doubles on this forum, and seeing so many beauties posted it has really got me interested in trying one .

I am in Canada , so there may not be a huge amount to choose from. I have read great things about Heym, Verney Carron , and some good things about Merkel, and a few concerns about them double firing at times.

For those with a Krieghoff, or anyone with input on this caliber your reply would be much appreciated. I probably would want some type of dot sight ,or optic as my eyes seem to prefer a scope over the open sights.

I would probably be purchasing a previously owned rifle, as the price of these are quite daunting even for the plain Jane type rifles.


Thanks again

Craig

I strongly recommend the Kreighoff. My first experience shooting a double rifle was in South Carolina, on a public range between Greenville and Spartanburg, It was early spring, I was shooting my first "Big Bore Rifle" an Interarms Whitworth .375 H&H. I was stoked as it was accurate and recoil not bad.
A gentleman came to the public range with 2 Americased rifles.
A Kreighoff 500/416 and a 30-06, both side by side doubles.
The cases looked well worn, with many Airline stickers on them. I had just left an international job, and knew these Airline stickers well.

After a few volleys of shot, we stopped shooting to talk. He was preparing for his 12th Safari. He asked if I would like to shoot his rifles. Are you kidding me? I offered to pay for the ammunitions', and he said no just go ahead and try them.

It was unusual to get used to the Kreighoff cocking mechanism, but upon reflection makes a lot of sense. He told me that his PH had a tracker mortally wounded by another hunter, using the "African carry" and an accidental discharge while following up a wounded buffalo in the Zambezi valley. Serious shit.

I surprised myself in hitting the 8.5 x 11 inch Manila folder at 100 yards, open sights with his .416. I didn't even know the manufacturer of the ammo, Wolfgang Romney. I was hooked on double rifles since then, and after owning an "off-brand" double, I understand the K-gun system. Impeccably accurate, safe and reliable.

Thinking of the K Gun, Buy with confidence, I seriously desire one in .450 NE.

 

[MMAL]

I had an r8 (500 ne) and a k-gun in 500/416. I only own the k gun now. Great gun, better caliber, with extractors not ejectors. I will only buy a double with extractors. The kreighoff USA operations are in PA thus any work (like regulation to your preferred load) is easy and cheap. ($@250 plus the cost of ammo). Can not go wrong with the gun.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Not to highjack this thread but a question from my side. What are the pros/cons on side by side vs over under in double rifles?

The science says the top barrel of an O/U exerts twice the moment about the opening pivot that the bottom barrel does. A manufacturer can design to overcome that, but if they do not, there will be flex. So I should think there will be a limit to the calibre sise that can or should exist in O/U.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Does anyone know if this intelligent ejector system can be retrofitted to an older extractor K gun? I was pretty sure the answer was no, but more recently, I thought I heard differently. Just curious if anyone has successfully done that.

“Intelligent Ejector System (IES)
The shells can either be ejected, or extracted, controlled by the cocking lever.

(Fitting only possible for new guns, retro-fitting to existing guns is not possible.)”

https://www.krieghoff.de/en/hunting-arms/weapon/classic/classic-big-five-doppelbuechse/

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I’m going to take a different tack here. You’ve got a 416 and a 458. You’ve mentioned “suitable for buffalo” so I presume you are interested in a buffalo hunt. You’ve already got two guns well suited to a buffalo hunt. Wouldn’t two suitable guns and an actual hunt be a better use of the money than buying another gun?

If money is unlimited, I rescind my input.

 

[machinistbutler]

Always wanted a double. I am sure I would have been more than pleased with the 500/416.

Found a good deal on a beautiful 470. Love the rifle, will take more practice to be as confident as I would like to be for any dangerous game. Picked up some German side by side shotguns with the same set up as my 470 with to practice with more often. I don't want to be fumbling around with the rifle when it counts. If it doesn't work out I am more than confident with my 458 Lott.

Just holding those huge 470 cartridges makes me happy!

Have some nice 375 H&H as well, probably will take one on the next hunt as well as a bigger one.

Still waiting on securing a Buffalo hunt ,hopefully next year. Living vicariously through the awesome members posting Buffalo hunt reports for now!

 

[Still alive]

I just bought one and love this rifle. I bought this used; one owner in about 97% condition. I found a great deal on hornady 400 gr DGS ammo at $85 a box. The only thing I’m looking at doing is adding a red dot system to it. My eyes are not what they used to be. I very much enjoy the cocking system on the Krieghoff too

 

[machinistbutler]

I just bought one and love this rifle. I bought this used; one owner in about 97% condition. I found a great deal on hornady 400 gr DGS ammo at $85 a box. The only thing I’m looking at doing is adding a red dot system to it. My eyes are not what they used to be. I very much enjoy the cocking system on the Krieghoff too

That's awesome! Share some pics, one never tires of seeing pics of double rifles!!

 

[375FLM]

Machinistbutler, I have a number of doubles and three are K-Guns. Mine are accurate, I have no problems with the cocking mechanism and found it easy to master, in fact, as I think you have already found with your new K-Gun, if you think of it as a safety that is a bit harder to push on and off, guess what... you've mastered it. While I don't own the caliber you were interested in at the start of this thread, my 470 K-Gun has taken both dangerous game and plains game, as well as the occasional feral pig between hunts. Safe, reliable, and accurate, not sure you could expect more from any weapon.

Krieghoff has been very easy to work with as I had a couple of modifications to one of my 470's and a 375 Flanged Magnum I use as much as I can, so I can attest to the customer service aspects of owning a K-Gun. Kreighoff customer service was the same for K-Guns that I purchased new as well as a used double rifle that I picked up. Hope you get to hunt with your new gun often.

Good Hunting.