Jihadists seize Moz port

Indi

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Indi, you may have bitten off more than you can chew here.
Never be so sure my friend!
When Wheels explains correctly the meaning of his statement instead of giving us some part of history you can then singing your victory song .
Why with Tanzania things were not going out of hand? Simple question to be answered and why the mention of Portugal and the insinuation of “ too bad that part went to Portugal “ - this explanation I would like to have from him nothing else.
 
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Wheels

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Dear Wheels
Thanks for your reply.
Obviously you were a good schoolboy and you know history which is great.
I was not asking you for a history lesson because I know the history of my country, thank you , and I can assure you that we can discuss it whenever you want and always in a very civilized way ,do not worry.
Maybe it was my poor english understanding for which I apologize, but I understood that
by saying “ To bad the area was given to the Portuguese in the Treaty of Versailles. Tanzania would never have let the situation get out of hand. “ that you were meaning that the Portuguese has its own fault on what is happening now in that part of the world.
I still do not understand the meaning of your statement but if you mean that in Tanzania these things do not happen I would tell you that most of armed bandits are obviously coming through Tanzania and that a lot of them that has been shot are Tanzanian nationals among other nationalities.
But again I would like to understand why with Tanzania things would not go out of hand ?

Indi,

In no way was my initial statement meant to be a condemnation of Portugal. Perhaps my wording was poor. Especially to someone who may not speak English as a first language. If I have caused confusion then I am sorry.

Tanzania is approximately 1/3 Muslim. Most are concentrated along the coast. The majority are peace loving people. Some of them I count as good friends. That being said, there are obviously extremists / terrorists among them. Periodically the terrorists cause problems such as the US Embassy bombing in Dar in which some Tanzanian's participated.

I have no reason to doubt you when you say that Tanzanian's are involved in the atrocities happening in Northeastern Mozambique at the moment. Among any large group of people there will be some that are bad. If Tanzanian terrorists are involved in the atrocities in Mozambique, it is because the government won't or can't enforce the laws and the terrorists have gotten free reign. Perhaps Tanzanian terrorists don't do the same thing in Tanzania because they know they will be killed with no mercy very quickly. I have also heard that some involved have come from the defunct caliphate in Iraq/Syria. There has also been small Muslim terrorist attacks in Tanzania that originated in Mozambique.

Tanzania has had a reputation for extrajudicial activity when it comes to terrorists. Kenya also has that reputation and occasionally it makes the news. Most of the time it is just "heard on the wind". Word on the street which I can not confirm is that most significant Mosques have been infiltrated by the government. If the preaching starts becoming radical, evidently things happen.

From what I read last year, the terrorism started in what was at one time German Territory that was given to Portugal in 1919, at the end of WWI. My comments reflect that, in my opinion, if the German Territory had remained as part of Tanganyika, which became the current Tanzania, the terrorism wouldn't have started there. As I also mentioned, terrorism could have started 50 miles south and the problem might still exist, but perhaps not.

If Muslim terrorism takes place in Tanzania. From everything I hear it is normally dealt with quickly. There certainly aren't the issues in Tanzania right now that there are in Mozambique. Towns like Mtwara, Lindi, Kilwa seem to be doing okay compared to immediately across the border.

Tanzania has a special place in my heart. Tanzania is susceptible to Muslim terrorists from Mozambique. Here is to praying that a caliphate isn't established in northeastern Mozambique that could destabilize Tanzania or the entire region.

I certainly feel for the average individual in northeastern Mozambique at the moment. Their life is certainly difficult, and may be for awhile. Here is to hoping that Mozambique and perhaps other nations get things under control in a timely manner.

All the best.
 

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Sorry @Wheels , but but if i remember my history books, Mozambique was first explored by Vasco de Gama in 1498, then the Portuguese started colonization around 1500, after that comes a struggle for control of ports and trade with the Arabs, then British, French and Dutch.

All of this was settled in the Berlin Conference 1885 which recognized it as a Portuguese Colony, until its independence in 1975.

I don´t remember Moz being German territory at any time.
 

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Sorry @Wheels , but but if i remember my history books, Mozambique was first explored by Vasco de Gama in 1498, then the Portuguese started colonization around 1500, after that comes a struggle for control of ports and trade with the Arabs, then British, French and Dutch.

All of this was settled in the Berlin Conference 1885 which recognized it as a Portuguese Colony, until its independence in 1975.

I don´t remember Moz being German territory at any time.


Hi Nyati,

Good information you mentioned and a good history lesson. Let me clarify.

At one time Portugal had a presence at least as far north as Ft. Jesus, on the island which is now Mombasa, Kenya. The Omani Arabs drove the Portuguese south off of the "Swahili Coast". The Sultan headquartered in Zanzabar.

I have never said that Mozambique was German territory. I have only been talking about the part of Portugal, now Mozambique, that was south of the mouth of the Ruvuma River. This is the area where the Muslim Terrorism and savagery that this thread is about started. This area was indeed German territory that was given to Portugal in 1919 with the signing of the Treaty of Versailles ending WWI.

Please see the three following references.

All the best.





German East Africa, German Deutsch-Ostafrika, former dependency of imperial Germany, corresponding to present-day Rwanda and Burundi, the continental portion of Tanzania, and a small section of Mozambique.



@Nyati , Please see the small area south of the Ruvuma River that is notated as Kionga. This was German East Africa. Portugal received it in 1919 in the Treaty of Versailles. This is where the initial terrorism and savagery this thread is about, evidently started.

1597965120431.png






Another reference post.



The Kionga Triangle (German: Kionga-Dreieck, Portuguese: Triângulo de Quionga) was a small region of German East Africa situated on the border with Portuguese Mozambique. The area itself was situated on the Portuguese side of the Ruvuma River which served as the border between the two colonies. Its principal settlement was Kionga (now Quionga) which had a population of 4,000 in 1910. It became a German possession in 1894 but came under Portuguese control in April 1916 during World War I.[1] The post-war Treaty of Versailles reaffirmed that the river was the border between Tanganyika, now under British control, and Portuguese Mozambique. The triangle was the only territory that the treaty awarded to Portugal.

Today, the former Kionga Triangle forms part of Cabo Delgado Province in Mozambique.

1597968048762.png
 

Indi

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Dear Wheels ,
Thank you so much for your explanation which I very much appreciated.
I understood that you love Tanzania very much but for sure Tanzania is not the heaven in earth.
Regarding what you said about Versalhes after ww1 and the land that was offered to my country Portugal , allow me to inform you and our friends in AH what really means that :


In 1886, Germany and Portugal had agreed on the Rovuma River as the official border between then German East Africa (present-day Tanzania) and the Portuguese colony of Mozambique.

In 1892, however, the Germans claimed that the Portuguese had no rights in the northern part of Cabo Delgado, approximately 32 kilometers south of the mouth of the Rovuma river.
And in 1894 the German navy seized Quionga, and the forces of that country occupied its interior, forging what would be called the “Kionga triangle” (an area of about 395 square kilometer - only ! ).

In the First World War, this territory was reconnected by the Portuguese, and under the Treaty of Versailles it became the only territorial acquisition of Portugal in that war.


So when you say “
From what I read last year, the terrorism started in what was at one time German Territory that was given to Portugal in 1919, at the end of WWI. My comments reflect that, in my opinion, if the German Territory had remained as part of Tanganyika, which became the current Tanzania, the terrorism wouldn't have started there. “

I think you are not correct at all because that small piece of land that was seized from Germany“ to Portugal “ was only around 100.000 acres and I am sure that most of us already hunted in much bigger areas.
Just to tell you the province of Cabo Delgado , where the problems are at the moment is very big and the area where you say the problems started ( which is not correct ) is only 0,4% of the entire province!

When you say that most of the Tanzanian Muslims are concentrated in the coast it is true and the reason I find for this is because before and after portuguese colonization, the eastern coast of mozambique and tanzania, including zanzibar, was one of the natural points of influence of navigators, fishermen, conquerors, slave hunters, merchants and arab and islamic preachers. They came from where is Iraq today, Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia, across the Red and Arabian Sea.
Pemba , the capital of Cabo Delgado province thus became a large multicultural center.
Cabo delgado, due to these roots, has become the most Islamized Mozambican province where the Muslim faith has gained more weight and social penetration just like , maybe , the coast of Tanzania where Muslims are 1/3 of the total Tanzania population.


In Mozambique after the first peace agreements with Renamo in 1992, Cabo Delgado began to host a great diversity of religious groups with great freedom of speech.
In 2012, tensions began to emerge with the radicalizations of some groups, for example coming from Tanzania and between 2013 and 2016 many preachers arrived at the mosques who had contacted jihadi military groups from kenya, the great lakes, saudi arabia, Sudan Algeria and Somalia.
These active radicals were gaining influence and power in some areas of Cabo Delgado.
The radical structures now installed and the traditional ones started to confront each other and the violence begins to install itself.
This new wave, largely coming from Tanzania and after congo and uganda, began to induce youth to other forms of interpretation of the koran . Adding the real conditions of imbalance of fortunes and income in this potentially rich area, they were widely denounced by this youth movement which it would later be called Shabaab.
The message was that only political islam could save Cabo Delgado from injustice, from poverty, and with the arrival of large multinational gas extraction groups, precious stones and wood , that also created new opportunities for revolt and fury as these groups asked for more transparency, more division of labor. future profits and more jobs.


They started violent campaigns against schools, administrators, politicians and police and these campaigns have become recurrent. The young Islamists started then to leave for the forests, savannas, areas of difficult access and there they created fields of training of combat, subversive war and sabotage techniques .
But the big problems started especially from 2016 when the “ vocal Islam “ really starts to become the “ violent Islam “.
And Wheels, let me tell you that there are several examples of Tanzanians helping the Muslim insurrection in Cabo Delgado.
Abilah kahamba and Ahmad Mahamkod are two of the most important with the first being slaughtered in Palma in 2018.
So , maybe you are right when you say “ Perhaps Tanzanian terrorists don't do the same thing in Tanzania because they know they will be killed with no mercy very quickly “
Don’t forget Wheels , this is the Daesh , not “ normal “ bandits or terrorists , but Tanzanians are very involved in Mozambique operations.
Today it is known that it is the daesh that controls operations in Moz , especially from mid-2019, having since then been detected the entry of many arabs and asians with military experience and equipped with material only seen among special forces.
The attacks from that date also began to be more professional and not as dispersed as until then.


I am very sorry to be so boring with all these information but I felt necessary to give you my sincere opinion of the veracity of your comments which as you can see do not correspond to the reality that I know - I am very sorry for that.


Above all what I want is to hunt in Beloved Africa and let’s hope that we are able to do this passion in a very short period of time.
My regards to all of you here in AH .
 

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Indi,

Thank you for your explanation of your view as to what is happening in northern Mozambique. You obviously have a love for Portugal and Mozambique and it is understandable you want the best for them.

In reading what you have written, we probably agree on many more things than we have our differences over. We both obviously care deeply about the people, flora and fauna in the same region of Africa.

Here is to hoping that Mozambique can deal with problems of Daesh, ISIS, Sunni Caliphate or what ever they call themselves and that peace can return to the region.

All the best and happy hunting!
 

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Being a Muslim myself and someone who specifically fought in a war to drive other Muslims out of his country and prevent Sharia Law from getting introduced to my country , I believe that maybe I can provide my own input on this matter .

Islam ( like Christianity , Hinduism , Judaism or Buddhism ) has multiple sects . There are two main religious texts in Islam :
A ) The Quran
B ) The Hadith

The Quran is the book which was authored by the Muslim prophet ( Muhammad ) while he was still alive . Now , what I say next may come as a shock to many . But here goes : The actual Quran itself does not mention even a single one of the prohibitions which is typically associated with Islam . The Quran makes no mention of men being forced to grow beards . It makes no mention of making women cover their hair or wear those disgusting black veil things . It imposes no prohibition whatsoever on art , liquor or music . There is not a single mention of the word “ Jihad “ being used in a war type context . The word “ Jihad “ directly translates from Arabic to English as “ struggle ‘ . As a matter of fact , there is a prayer in the Quran called “ Baqarah “ which says “ And Let there be no compulsion in religion . For Allah sees and hears all things . “ . In other words , the Quran itself does no condone forcibly converting people from other faiths . There is also no reference to stoning women to death or killing people for apostasy . The Quran does prohibit the consumption of pork , but nowhere does it mention that Muslims must stop other people from consuming pork . As a matter of fact , I regularly cook and serve countless pork dishes for my non Muslim friends throughout the year . I also frequently gift them fresh pork from all the wild boars that I hunt . If followed by itself ( and only itself ) , I doubt that any followers of the Quran would be harming non Muslims , anytime soon . As a matter of fact ; Jesus Christ , Abraham , Noah and Moses are all considered to be prophets by the Quran ( Muhammad is simply mentioned as being the final prophet ) .

The Christian Bible is an extremely peace loving religious text , as well . The Bible teaches us “ And be kind to all strangers , for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt “ .

The problem with Islam , is the Hadith . What the Hadith is , is a series of books written at least 193 years after the Muslim prophet and everyone in his generation died . These books were written by a 16 year old goat shepherd named Al Bukhari . These books make mentions of all sorts of barbaric practices ( such as forcing women to cover their hair , stoning women to death , killing people for committing apostasy , forcing men to grow beards , prohibiting art , prohibiting music , prohibiting the wearing of silk and gold and ordering the forced conversion of all non Muslims ) .

Many people will observe that the Muslims living in south east Asia are typically far less radical and conservative than the Muslims living in the Middle East . There is a reason for this . Islam originated in the Middle East in about AD 595 . Thousands of Muslims began to migrate towards south east Asia from the Middle East during this time . About 193 years after the Muslim prophet died , Al Bukhari began to spread his perverse Hadith books all around the Middle East . He called his “ amended “ version of Islam “ Shariah “ . As a result , the Muslims living in the Middle East began to treat both the teach of the Quran and the teaching of the Hadith books as binding . The results were pretty predictable . But the Muslims living in South East Asia did / do not treat the Hadith as a religiously accurate book . We follow only the Quran and want a secular government .

The problem is that the Muslims who believe in the Hadith , want to spread their pervasive beliefs all across the world . And they are willing to shoot , stab , hack and blow up innocent people to accomplish this . Now , let me give you an example of what happened in my country .

I was born in East Pakistan in 1954 and the Muslims of East Pakistan were only followers of the Quran . Unfortunately , our country was controlled by West Pakistan ( where all of the Muslims were Hadith followers ) . We love(d) music , painting , women with open hair and bright dresses . We loved celebrating Eid as well as Christmas . Our men hate beards and we love Western clothes ( for both men and women ) . The West Pakistani government wanted to implement Shariah law in our land and take all of our freedom away , by following a pervasive interpretation of our faith . When we refused to bend to their will , they conducted a nationwide genocide on March 25 , 1971 called “ Operation Searchlight “ . Our college boys and university students were shot to death in their dorm rooms . Children were stomped on and stabbed to death with pig sticker bayonets . Our women were taken to barracks and raped before being impaled ( live ) on sharpened bamboo stakes . We lost 3000,000 innocent people that night . My parents were killed by the West Pakistani military airstrike at Golkhali on June 3 , 1971 . I watched them die and I was powerless to do nothing about it .

I was only 17 years old at the time and was conscripted into the Bengal Lancers as an HMG ( heavy machine gun ) operator . We fought a violent nine month long war and drove the Hadith followers out of our land . East Pakistan became Bangladesh and we became a secular nation . One where people of all regions were treated equally . Our government abolished the teaching of the Hadith in any schools across all of the country .

If you really want to get rid of Islamic terrorism , then you need to get to the root of the problem . You have to eradicate every single Muslim man , woman and child ( who is too old to be re-educated ) who follows the “ Hadith “ . Kill all of them . Eradicate the ideology altogether . What I say is not the most politically correct solution , but it is the only solution.
I wish Islam was 100% people like you
 

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Indi, you you may have bitten off more than you can chew here.may have bitten off more than you can chew here.

Dear Wab,
Instead of trying to give this forum the best of your knowledge, you just tried to bash a fellow hunter and you laughed about the possibility of making fun of someone that was simply asking a very direct explanation of a statement that I did not understand.
i hope that after my last post and Wheels’s , that you will be more calm and you will think twice before you post inadequate comments and maybe you will avoid to make a very sad figure of yourself .
By looking to your picture in this forum, you certainly have the right age for that.
By the way , just let me inform you that we the Portuguese bite very well , our teeth are normally very good !
Wheels is a gentleman , I hope you will be also.
Take care my friend and as Wheels very well said , Happy Hunting !
as you can see very good genetics - we are able to chew whatever it comes
 

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Mozambique: ISIS Is Not Driving the Cabo Delgado War:

There is growing pressure in South Africa for military intervention in the insurgency in Cabo Delgado province in northern Mozambique. But the government needs to be aware that it would be choosing sides in an extremely complicated civil war. The elite from the ruling party, Frelimo, its international backers and the proponents of military support say the war is part of a global campaign by the Islamic State (Isis) militant group that might spread to South Africa.

In fact, this is a civil war in Cabo Delgado driven by growing poverty and inequality. From Boko Haram in Nigeria to insurgents in Cabo Delgado, Isis has tagged on to local insurgencies driven by inequality and marginalisation, only adding a bit of publicity and aid. And it is pleased to see the global panic, which builds its brand.

Members of the Frelimo elite have been siphoning off increasing amounts of money for two decades. The dollar signs have flashed in their eyes since the discovery of huge gas reserves. The notorious $2 billion (about R35 billion) secret debt was a way in which elite bank accounts received hundreds of millions of dollars five years ago – and they spent some on property in South Africa. Sons of then president Armando Guebuza have been charged and arrested, but it is not clear if the case will ever go to trial. Former finance minister Manuel Chang is still in a South African jail awaiting extradition.

Although a few strong sectors of the civil service survive, notably the health sector, there has been little economic development in years. All the statistics show growing poverty, inequality and child malnutrition. Cabo Delgado has become a flashpoint, with thousands of families stripped of their livelihoods after being displaced by ruby and graphite mines and the gas project. Young people see a few gaining from the mineral wealth and well-paid outsiders coming in to work on the gas, and most local people not benefitting.

Islamic militants are attracting willing recruits in exactly the same way Frelimo attracted its recruits when it started in the same places 50 years ago, with both promising a fairer sharing of the wealth of the province. Too many young people now view Frelimo in the same way that their grandparents saw the colonial administration, and the new civil war is the result.

Now there is a growing wave of support for foreign military intervention in the Cabo Delgado war. If the grievances remain unresolved, this will not end the war. The most likely outcome is that, as in Afghanistan and elsewhere, private security companies will be paid to guard the economic installations – gas, rubies and other minerals – and cities like provincial capital Pemba. In rural areas the war will continue, and the more than 250 000 refugees will increase as the government tries to drain the “sea” the guerrillas swim in.
 

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Glad I hunted when I did in the Niassa Reserve in 2013. We camped right on the Ruvuma River (bordering Tanzania) about a 2-2.5 hour flight west of Pemba. @spike.t has also been there. Lots of cats, elephant and good numbers of PG. Even then, driving around in Pemba was a bit worrisome. I hope the local people and the wildlife are spared more trouble. What a mess.
 

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Glad I hunted when I did in the Niassa Reserve in 2013. We camped right on the Ruvuma River (bordering Tanzania) about a 2-2.5 hour flight west of Pemba. @spike.t has also been there. Lots of cats, elephant and good numbers of PG. Even then, driving around in Pemba was a bit worrisome. I hope the local people and the wildlife are spared more trouble. What a mess.

Yup that's a great area
 
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Dear Wab,
Instead of trying to give this forum the best of your knowledge, you just tried to bash a fellow hunter and you laughed about the possibility of making fun of someone that was simply asking a very direct explanation of a statement that I did not understand.
i hope that after my last post and Wheels’s , that you will be more calm and you will think twice before you post inadequate comments and maybe you will avoid to make a very sad figure of yourself .
By looking to your picture in this forum, you certainly have the right age for that.
By the way , just let me inform you that we the Portuguese bite very well , our teeth are normally very good !
Wheels is a gentleman , I hope you will be also.
Take care my friend and as Wheels very well said , Happy Hunting !
as you can see very good genetics - we are able to chew whatever it comes

My apologies Indi, it was a poor attempt at levity.
 

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The government of Mozambique is expected to launch an attack to regain control of the strategic Mocímboa da Praia port after it was captured by Islamic extremists earlier this month.

Analysts say the Islamic State Central African Province showed previously unseen levels of organization and weaponry during the skirmish that saw the group seize the port earlier this month, according to the Associated Press. The conflict in the northeast province of Cabo Delgado is quickly unfolding into “yet another insurgency hotspot,” the Associated Press reported.

“The fall of Mocímboa da Praia is a major strategic victory for the insurgents,” said Eric Morier-Genoud, a historian at Queen’s University Belfast. “They took five days to capture the town and its port.”

The extremists consider themselves an affiliate group of the Islamic State and first began their assault in 2017, The Washington Post reported. (RELATED: Islamist Militants Suspected Of Beheading 10 In Mozambique, Including Children)

Mozambique has seen the largest increase in Islamic extremist violence globally with more than 1,500 people reportedly dead and an additional 250,000 reportedly displaced, according to the Washington Post.

The insurgency also threatens a potentially lucrative natural gas industry in Mozambique. Multinational energy companies like Exxon Mobil and Total S.A. said they plan to invest up to $60 billion in extracting large deposits of liquified natural gas, according to The Wall Street Journal.

Morier-Genoud told the Associated Press “the Mozambican military will recapture Mocímboa da Praia” but questioned whether the military would be able to successfully hold on to the port city, which has a population of 30,000 people.

“Once they do, the question will also be how will the army hold onto the town. The present organization and logistics of the army clearly failed to secure the town this time round,” he said.

Yussuf Adam, a history professor at the University of Eduardo Mondlane in Mozambique, told the Associated Press that insurgents would likely not focus on holding the port but would instead use “strike-and-run tactics

“They will attack again and again,” he said. “It will depend on the capacity of the government forces to transform a war of movement of the guerrillas, into a war of positions.”

 

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Country Summary: Violent crime, such as mugging, is common.

Mozambique’s health infrastructure is limited: there are only three doctors per 100,000 people, frontline health providers are often poorly trained, and medicine shortages are common. More than 1.2 million people in Mozambique have HIV/AIDS, representing a sizable population with compromised immune systems. In the event of a public health emergency, access to an ICU and ventilator support is highly unlikely.

Read the country information page.

If you decide to travel to Mozambique:

  • See the U.S. Embassy's web page regarding COVID-19.
  • Visit the CDC’s webpage on Travel and COVID-19. `
  • Stay alert in locations frequented by Westerners.
  • Have travel documents up to date and easily accessible.
  • Keep a low profile.
  • Be aware of your surroundings.
  • Monitor local media for breaking events and be prepared to adjust your plans.
  • Consider hiring a professional security organization if traveling to the affected areas of Cabo Delgado and Sofala / Manica.
  • Be aware of increased government security checkpoints in Cabo Delgado Province.
  • Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
  • Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
  • Review the Crime and Safety Report for Mozambique.
  • Have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler’s Checklist.
Some northern districts in Cabo Delgado Province – Do Not Travel

There have been frequent attacks by armed extremists, threats of violence, and other forms of assault in the districts of Ancuabe, Ibo, Macomia, Meluco, Metuge, Mocimboa da Praia, Mueda, Muidumbe, Nangade, Palma, and Quissanga in the northern Cabo Delgado Province that borders Tanzania. These groups have used machetes and firearms to conduct lethal attacks and have burned vehicles and homes. While the attacks have been localized, it is possible that such violence could spill over into other districts.

Visit our website for Travel to High-Risk Areas.

Pemba, capital of Cabo Delgado Province – Reconsider Travel

Brazen terrorist attacks in multiple districts of Cabo Delgado Province present the possibility that the provincial capital of Pemba could also be vulnerable to attack due to the proximity of violent extremist forces, their increasing sophistication, and the symbolic value of the provincial capital as a target.

Visit our website for Travel to High-Risk Areas.

Some sections of the EN1 between Chibabava and Gorongosa and EN6 between Chimoio and Tica – Reconsider Travel

There have been violent attacks against vehicles, especially trucks and buses, along sections of these highways resulting in serious injuries and deaths. Attacks have occurred on the EN1 between Chibabava and Gorongosa, and along the EN6 between Chimoio in Manica Province and Tica in Sofala Province.
 
 

 

 

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