Ivory question

[sgt_zim]

Mom has a pair of ivory statues, carved from the tusks of Indian elephants. The scrollwork is intricate, very well-done.

Mom and Dad are both not long for this world and are trying to get rid of some of their stuff to avoid probate (they have wills, but no trusts). I don't have any interest at all in the statues - my sisters are more than welcome to them as there are other things I want which they care nothing about - Dad's Belgian 1964 A5 for one. They want to get to the point where the only stuff subject to probate is the house, their cars, and their banking/investment accounts. Mom has some VERY well-seasoned cast iron cookware that I want, plus gallons-worth of Mason and Ball jars for canning. There's also quite a bit of teak furniture we brought back from Malaysia my sisters and I have already agreed on the split. It really isn't about the money.

The statues are about 18" tall, we brought them back with us to the states from Malaysia in 1971, so pre-ban imports. I'm certain they're worth a great deal more than Dad's Browning, but that Browning has significant sentimental value to me, and I'm cool with the delta in values. Probably 95% of the stuff in their house will go in an estate sale. There isn't much that I want other than the tools in Dad's workshop, which I'm happy to split between my younger sister's husband and my 2 sons (only other boy is a gay psychiatrist, my older sister's only son).

Any thoughts on the value of actual ivory statuary? I'm just purely curious as I have no idea.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have no idea, but I asked AI.
And AI says following:

Value of Pre-Ban Ivory Carvings and Statues in the USA and Europe
The value of pre-ban ivory carvings and statues can vary significantly based on several factors, including provenance, age, craftsmanship, condition, and market demand. The term “pre-ban” refers to items made from ivory before the international trade in elephant ivory was largely banned under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) in 1989. In the United States, further restrictions were implemented at both federal and state levels.

Value in the USA
Market Overview
In the USA, the market for pre-ban ivory has become increasingly complex due to stringent regulations. The Lacey Act and various state laws have imposed restrictions that affect how ivory can be sold or transferred. As a result, many collectors are cautious about purchasing ivory items due to legal implications.

Price Range
The value of pre-ban ivory carvings and statues can range widely:

Small Carvings: Small pieces may sell for anywhere from $100 to $1,000 depending on their intricacy and condition.
Medium-Sized Statues: These can fetch between $1,000 to $10,000. Factors such as artist reputation and historical significance play a crucial role.
Large or Exceptional Pieces: High-quality large sculptures or rare items can command prices upwards of $10,000 to over $100,000. Notable examples include pieces by renowned artists or those with significant historical provenance.
Auction Houses & Collectors
Auction houses like Sotheby’s or Christie’s often feature pre-ban ivory items in their sales. Prices realized at auction can provide insight into current market values; however, they also reflect trends that may not be consistent across private sales.

Value in Europe
Market Overview
In Europe, similar regulations exist regarding the sale of ivory. The European Union has implemented strict rules governing the trade of elephant ivory which affects its valuation. Countries like the UK have also introduced bans on all sales of elephant ivory regardless of age.

Price Range
The valuation in Europe mirrors that of the USA but is influenced by local laws:

Small Carvings: Typically valued between €100 to €800.
Medium-Sized Statues: These might range from €800 to €8,000.
Large or Exceptional Pieces: High-value pieces could reach prices from €8,000 up to €150,000 or more depending on rarity and demand.
Cultural Context
European collectors may place a higher premium on historical context or artistic merit compared to American buyers. This cultural appreciation can lead to higher valuations for certain pieces within specific markets.

Conclusion
In summary, while both the USA and Europe have active markets for pre-ban ivory carvings and statues, values fluctuate based on legal restrictions as well as cultural perceptions surrounding these items. In general:

In the USA: Values range from approximately $100 for small carvings up to over $100,000 for exceptional pieces.
In Europe: Values typically range from €100 for small items up to over €150,000 for rare works.
These values are subject to change based on ongoing legal developments regarding wildlife protection laws as well as shifts in collector interest.

 

[sgt_zim]

Thanks, @mark-hunter . I'll take a couple pics next time I'm over there. I don't know that these have any particular provenance, but IMO, they are quite well done - they're each carved in the shape of a woman, of course following the natural curvature of the tusk.

I'm certainly no art critic, but to my eyes, they're the same level of detail as that of the Italian masters of the Renaissance.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have seen in my life several finely carved tusks, and they are wonderful work of art.
I have seen carved African Ivory and carved Asian Ivory.
Asian Ivory is more detailed, and more artistic. (even if made on African elephant tusks, sometimes)
It is wonderful piece to have at home.

regardless of carving, I have also seen uncarved ivory, large trophy tusks in hunting room, and they are impressive. There is something in ivory that attracts a man like gold. I can not explain it but this is what i can sense it.

 

[Doug3006]

Hi @sgt_zim ! Kinda off topic, but my mom changed the title to her house to read Transfer on Death to her 3 kids. Avoided probate altogether. Might be worth considering.

 

[pilar]

Good topic
my father brought home some Asian ivory from the war in Vietnam, after mom died it’s been siting forgotten in a China cabinet, wonder about it from time to time

 

[wesheltonj]

Are they in Texas? If so, it’s not like CA where you want avoid Probate. Texas probate is very fast and easy. Those bank accounts can be POD, the car can transfer at death on the title. If they can change to investment account to POD, then the house can transfer at death by Muniment of Title, assuming no debts. Fast, easy & cheap.

 

[sgt_zim]

They are in Louisiana.

 

[TXhunter65]

Off topic a little and not the advice you asked for...so my apologies, but if they want to reduce assets subject to probate, they can list beneficiaries or joint tenants on their investment accounts. Same with bank accounts or add a payable on death (POD). For their vehicles they can register them with a transfer-on-death and avoid probate. Homes can have transfer-on-death deeds also known as beneficiary deeds to avoid probate as well.

 

[Fixfire]

In the Colt SAA world, some marginal value ivory carvings are used to fabricate ivory grips.

 

[Rare Breed]

It would make me nervous trying to sale them out of state based on our laws for ivory. Within LA I would discuss with a dealer to see their potential value

 

[sgt_zim]

It would make me nervous trying to sale them out of state based on our laws for ivory. Within LA I would discuss with a dealer to see their potential value

I don't believe you could part my sisters from them with a crowbar and 10# of semtex.

 

[Rare Breed]

lol!!! Good for them!