I too have hunted this property in the video. It’s a very large property and as @Mark Biggerstaff stated, the PH in the video isn’t the owner or the main PH. The owner of that property is more of a broker and many different outfitters and PH’s will come in and operate hunts on the property. I believe I know who the PH is based on the rifle and some stories I’ve heard.I guess the issue I have is I have never seen evidence of an ethical harvest of a CBL. I’ve seen lots of videos like the one the OP posted but not one showing days of tracking and missed opportunities with multiple lions being tracked. If I saw that representation, I would probably have a different opinion. All that said, I just have an opinion based off of reading and watching and not experience, so it means a whole lot of nothing on here.
No. Gerrit with Bos en Dal and Arrie van Niekerk where my PHs.
Gerrit I hunt with every year and Arrie is a well respected DG PH that specializes in Lion hunts. I know of other AHers that have hunted with him also.
Who did you do that hunt with?I too have hunted this property in the video. It’s a very large property and as @Mark Biggerstaff stated, the PH in the video isn’t the owner or the main PH. The owner of that property is more of a broker and many different outfitters and PH’s will come in and operate hunts on the property. I believe I know who the PH is based on the rifle and some stories I’ve heard.
I personally hunted my lion, and just the lion for 5 full days. We had encounters every day, several at under 10 yards, but because of the grass height, wouldn’t know until he’d flee. We’d hear either a growl or just see the grass moving and catch sight of him in the distance, or sometimes just find the fresh tracks. I had several opportunities that offered no clean shot. Not once while hunting did we see fences and every time we’d bump him he’d take of running covering several kilometers to a different portion of the property. Often times he’d move back to the same area (major water hole) at night. Given the cover we believe this was his core area because he was very successful at hunting.
He had numerous kills. Additionally there were several lions on the property that also had kills and we’d spend some time tracking when the one I really wanted would beeline to another area of the property. One kill included a very large breeder Red Lechewe. I know with certainty the lion I killed had been on the property for several month and had successfully eluded several other hunters (including the one before me who’s hunt was unsuccessful). Because of him being unsuccessful I was able to upgrade my planned lioness hunt to a male.
This video does not reflect CBL Hunting or the hunt I was on. PH’s often cater the type of hunt to their client. This seemed like a staged hunt, much like many of the videos you see of someone intentionally wounding a buffalo to provoke a charge. I personally do not agree with DSC or SCI being against CBL Hunts but supporting estate hunts of other species. In my opinion if you support those organizations you condone High Fence Hunting by proxy. As someone mentioned before attacking any sort of legal hunting method is an attack on hunting and we need to hold firm on all points not yielding any ground. CBL Hunting and specifically the owner of this ranch has provided a ton of research opportunities and data on lions.
I wouldn't impose my hunting "ethics" on anyone because, I am, at heart, a Libertarian.
But, anyone who would do this and post it on YouTube is an udder fool, jackass, dumbass, and idiot.
I hunted with the owner of the property/lodge personally. He doesn’t do much advertising or really put his name out there. As I stated in my initial response the majority of hunts conducted are by other outfitters here. The reason for very little advertising is due to him having the space booked by other Outfitters as well as due to some serious death threats his children/him were the target of from antis.Who did you do that hunt with?
I asked because you seem to have had the hunt that I am looking forI hunted with the owner of the property/lodge personally. He doesn’t do much advertising or really put his name out there. As I stated in my initial response the majority of hunts conducted are by other outfitters here. The reason for very little advertising is due to him having the space booked by other Outfitters as well as due to some serious death threats his children/him were the target of from antis.
One of them decided not to die before he got even. I broke that bulls neck when he was about ten feet from the PH. How would it have ended with a crossbow, loaded or not?
A bad shot with a rifle is still bad. But, even if the lion had been standing perfectly broadside, and the lungs or heart had been centered, the lion would have ha plenty of time to kill someone before he died. With a rifle the shoulder and lungs/heart could be taken out. Yes, hunting dangerous game has danger in it, but the point is to take the animal without getting yourself or someone else killed.
If one wants the thrill of bow hunting, well, it's up to him. But then, don't expect a PH-back up. You might have gotten your thrill - but then face the consequences, if something goes awry ! If you're a bow hunter, you know 2 things for sure:
1st you have to go close to your target
2nd even a perfect hit arrow will leave a large predator, or buffalo, for that matter, enough energy to charge and kill you.
That's, what you have to accept, but now cowardly wait for the rescue by the PH ..... Of course, everything can also happen with rifle hunting, but the situation then is completely different. In the video shown, the "hunter" enjoys all the fun he expects - but leaves his own safety completely to the PH, as he knows what I have already stated before.
You have misread on t mis understood what I wrote. A charge after a bow shot inevitable, but it can happen, and an animal that doesn't know where you are can run towards you. In either event, there is nothing you can do about it. Well, I guess you could try swatting him on the end of the nose with your bow, but that's probably not the most effective defence.It could have ended any number of ways.. You are mistakenly making the assumption that a charge is inevitable with archery gear which it is not.. The animal only charges when it sees who shot it.. Unlike with a rifle, the vast majority of the time, the animal has no idea where the arrow came from.. One could actually make the argument that a rifle shot is more likely to elicit a charge because the crack of the rifle gives your position away to the animal.
I get that you are making it about the weapon because you are not a bowhunter who has taken DG game with a bow. You are forming an opinion based off one video, and making an anecdotal assumption that hunting DG anytime, anywhere is more dangerous when archery gear is used... One again, the OP's video is a perfect example of what NOT TO DO on a DG archery hunt. Had the shot been taken with the animal calm and unaware of the hunting party's presence, 99 out of 100 times that lion takes off not knowing what just happened regardless of the shot placement. The PHs with rifles are there for that 1 in 100, which is part of the deal when hunting DG bow, rifle or whatever...
Now if you want to make the argument that CBL hunts in general are inherently more dangerous, that's a different situation altogether..
Please correct me if I have this wrong.. Are you saying that a heart/lung shot with a rifle is an instant death for the animal so it will not have time to charge?? That has certainly not been the case in my experiences especially with a large DG game animal like a buffalo, hippo, or elephant which can take multiple rifle shots to the heart and lungs covering lots of ground before piling up... I am sure there are plenty of PHs on here that have been charged by DG animals shot perfectly in the vitals with large caliber rifles...
And in regard to your last sentence, I disagree that the point of hunting DG is to take the animal without getting somebody hurt. That's an impossibility by the very nature of the task hence the name "dangerous game"... If the main concern is to avoid any risk of injury, then why in the hell not inebotable would you do the hunt? The point of hunting DG is to experience the added challenge and thrill of hunting for an animal that is inherently dangerous and capable of hurting someone... The unfortunate reality of somebody getting hurt is a byproduct of the experience..