Hydrostatic shock does not help kill animals

[Brian]

The guys at Barnes say hydrostatic shock isn't important. Only permanent wound cavities contribute to killing. What say you?

Thanks for this post. It is true, just like the myth of the Sectional Density Theory for expanding bullets. Mostly irrelevant. The quick kill is mainly about tissue damage, deep straight penetration an wound channel.

 

[steve white]

Having seen some whitetail/reedbuck sized animals drop as if struck by lightening, I would lend some credence to hydrostatic shock. The larger the prey, the more diminished the result unless contact is near CNS.
I believe in hydraulic shock for larger prey like buff, but that threshold begins at 35 caliber moving upward and the more frontal the better.
Sounds like Barnes is advocating wound channel over any type of shock.

 

[PARA45]

I believe Roy Weatherby was a believer of hydrostatic shock killed by pushing small bullets to high speeds (for back then). The 257 Weatherby kills like a laser.

 

[Gunnie]

There seems to be in the hunting community a black and white opinion on this when it’s more of grey. Hydrostatic shock after a certain point leads to permanent damage as certain things stretch beyond the breaking point. It’s not the only thing to rely on and it’s also not necessary to kill. But it’s hard to argue that a bullet that penetrates to the vitals and wrecks organs through massive stretch cavity and deeper penetrating straight line bullets don’t both kill even if both don’t do so the same way. There’s not a one size fits all noir is the bullet you need for 500lb animals the best bullet for 2500lb animals.

 

[fourfive8]

There seems to be in the hunting community a black and white opinion on this when it’s more of grey. Hydrostatic shock after a certain point leads to permanent damage as certain things stretch beyond the breaking point. It’s not the only thing to rely on and it’s also not necessary to kill. But it’s hard to argue that a bullet that penetrates to the vitals and wrecks organs through massive stretch cavity and deeper penetrating straight line bullets don’t both kill even if both don’t do so the same way. There’s not a one size fits all noir is the bullet you need for 500lb animals the best bullet for 2500lb animals.

Good summation. Hydrostatic shock effect increases size of wound channel. In that way it usually leads to quicker kills…. If the penetration is adequate to reach vitals.

 

[Keelebilly]

I visited the historic Argo Gold mine in Colorado a couple of years ago. Tour guides take you thru the old mining equipment. According to the guides, the concussive forces of the heavy pistons used to crush the ore would incapacitate and kill a human if they were within a certain distance. Obviously there was no wound channel, but the shock waves were still deadly. It would seem like the best of both worlds would be using a tough expanding bullet under as high a velocity as possible without having the bullet come apart. The most tissue damage as possible while consistently reaching thru the vitals seems like a good goal. With the kind of bonded bullets we have now, cranking up the velocity seems reasonable.

 

[deewayne2003]

This deer ran further than any deer I have ever shot. 308 with a 165 ballistic tip. What was left of the heart was laying loose in the chest cavity.
View attachment 779492

Texas A&M did a study and results were that a deer can run full speed for 16 seconds with it’s heart destroyed; now consider how far a deer can run in 16 seconds.

That’s why I aim for shoulder bone; you can drive a long way in a tractor with an oil leak before it locks up, but if the front wheel falls off when the leak starts…..

 

[Hunt anything]

Texas A&M did a study and results were that a deer can run full speed for 16 seconds with it’s heart destroyed; now consider how far a deer can run in 16 seconds.

That’s why I aim for shoulder bone; you can drive a long way in a tractor with an oil leak before it locks up, but if the front wheel falls off when the leak starts…..

Yep, you might lose a shoulder but you gain the rest of the deer!

 

[coreydb]

I believe hydrostatic shock is a strong contributor/enhancer to a kill. I shot a free-range Kudu on the move; DRT with a 300 Win Mag using a 178 gr. Hornady ELD-X. The hydrostatic shock stunned the animal in it's tracks as the bullet dit the rest. I was surprised at the damage to the animal when it was skinned.

 

[Journey]

Both shock and penetration contribute to the wound/trauma.

I shot a small whitetail spike slightly quartering away at 100 yards with a 300 WM and a 150gr corelok, running 3300fps at the kuzzle. There was no exit wound and massive trauma. Ribs were cracked off right at the vertibraw, DRT.

I point blanked a 5x5 white tail straight on in the chest with a 280 AI 162 eldx running 2850 fps. Tipped over backwards and died within a few minutes so DRT, but bullet barely made it into the vitals.

I switched to bonded or copper bullets after these experiences as i dont think shots would have worked on elk. I prioritize penetration over shock now a days. Both are important but have trade offs

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I didn’t listen. I’ve heard lots of dumb theories before. A very accessible test to most of us is a 223 with FMJs and a 22lr with non-expanding target bullets. Hydrostatic shock, energy, whatever you’d like to call it does help speed up the kill. Take that 22 and 223 and shoot a groundhog, raccoon, coyote, any medium size varmint and compare the result.

I.have hit running ground squirrels and they kept going with multiple shots with standard .22 LR bullets. They still made it to their hole and disappeared. One hit with a CCI Stinger and they wad up where they are. I find it hard to abandon the whole idea of hydrostatic shock.

 

[deewayne2003]

I think its a contributing factor, I just don’t want to rely on it.

Over a decade ago I took a .22-250 to shoot a couple of the many cull doe we had to take and out walks the #1 cull buck we had big targeting. He was easy to spot with a clubbed hoof, huge body and inferior horns.

30yds broadside and took careful aim at the shoulder because of the heavy fog and hit him square in the shoulder but he ran and it took me forever to find him only 85yds away; no blood trail, no exit wound, no recovered bullets but massive damage.

Now the .257wby @3,550fps 100gr TSX - Best of both worlds and you will have a blood trail if needed.

The bigger the critter the less I’m relying on shock and more on heavy for caliber bullets at moderate velocity; such as the 200gr .300win load I’m working up now.

 

[Parkerpusher]

Texas A&M did a study and results were that a deer can run full speed for 16 seconds with it’s heart destroyed; now consider how far a deer can run in 16 seconds.

That’s why I aim for shoulder bone; you can drive a long way in a tractor with an oil leak before it locks up, but if the front wheel falls off when the leak starts…..

this right here is not even on topic but absolutely correct

 

[Doug Hamilton]

My most sought after animal is roe deer. It is smallish deer, up to 60 pounds of mass.
I use more then enuogh bullet for them, 30 06, 180 grains, nosler ballistic tip.
This is supposed to be shock effect bullet with rapid expansion.

95% of bucks are shot broad side, heart and lung area.
5% differnet angle, most often chest shot.
It is perfect animal to take as an example for this subject.
Not too big, not too small, thin skinned.

And whatever I do, I cannot get better then 50% of down in tracks, with hydrodynamic shock.
So my average is: 50% are down on spot, 50% go up to 50 meters from place of being shot. I never lost any roe buck. (Believe it or not)

If we talk about velocity as main cause for hydrodynamic shock effect:
My close friend who hunts them with 300 win mag, has similar average, about 50/50.

I also think that bigger the animal, hydrodynamic shock is less likely to occur.

Has anybody herd of elephant dropping down on spot on hydrodynamic shock?
I did not.
Only brain shots work like this, but hitting the brain is completely different mechanics at work.

So, my opinion is following.
Hydrodynamic shock can occur, but it is not guarnateed, and bigger the animal, it is less likely to happen.
Smaller the animal, more likely to happen.

Hitting vital zone, on the other hand: leads to 100% effect.

Moreover, I read somewhere that wounded animals die mostly from blood loss.
This means bigger permanent wound channel. Bigger hole bleeds better.
And faster bullet does not cause hydrodynamic shock always.

In conclusion hydrodynamic shock is holy grail of hunters, never to be reached with 100% success There is no formulae for hydrodynamic shock, with current state of bullet design.
(unless we invent laser guns for hunting, or something like that)

A few years ago a study was done on Cape buffalo. When the heart was full of blood a bullet strike in the chest cavity caused pressure in the brain resulting in near instant death. As far as I know, no one has figured out how to tell when the heart was full so that you could time your shot.

Wouldn't that be an example of "hydrostatic shock?"

 

[Safari Dave]

I'm no trauma surgeon, but I am a biologist.

I wouldn't rely on "hydrostatic shock," as a replacement for a well-placed shot to the vitals, but after necropsy, there is definitely more internal damage to organs to an animal with a high velocity projectile.

 

[mark-hunter]

Wouldn't that be an example of "hydrostatic shock?"

Similar theory is on roe bucks. Moreover, ideal moment is when heart atriums are open, so pressure effect is instant and direct to brain. And, yes, suggested bullet placement is upper part of heart area where are all main blood vessels.

And yet, I am at 50% with my sample. I have a problem determining when the heart atriums are open at distances up to 200 meters, which are my shooting distances.

 

[Mountainshadows]

Texas A&M did a study and results were that a deer can run full speed for 16 seconds with it’s heart destroyed; now consider how far a deer can run in 16 seconds.

That’s why I aim for shoulder bone; you can drive a long way in a tractor with an oil leak before it locks up, but if the front wheel falls off when the leak starts…..

I shot a Pronghorn couple of years ago. 200 yard shot straight through the heart with a 5.56mm Black Hills 77 gr. OTM. It ran 300 yards with a quarter of its heart blown off. Some shock effect would have prevented such a long run in my opinion.
I think you need a balance of both for good killing. Not saying it is necessary but tissue damage from shock cannot be understated.