GEW 98 vs. K 98?

[CoElkHunter]

Difference in receiver quality/strength for a build or in a used rifle?
Thanks!

 

[mdwest]

Nope.

The main things to consider when looking at any milsurp 98 mauser is the factory it came out of and it’s date of manufacture..

If you have a between the wars Kar98 from one of the German factory, you’re likely looking at a well made action that is composed of quality steel and a true craftsman’s touch..

If it was built in 1944.... not so much...

 

[CoElkHunter]

mdwest,
Thanks! I know we’ve discussed this Mauser action dilemma before. From my limited research, I see the GEWs were manufactured until 1935 when the K98s were then produced. I know you’ve stated that the war made K98s may not have been the “best” made, so I figured the pre WW2 GEWs might have been manufactured more “carefully “? The reason I’m inquiring now, is there’s a J.P Sauer and Sohn’s (?) GEW 98 in .338 WM for sale on GB for at least a reasonable bid price for now. I’m thinking about another .416 Taylor or possibly a .375-.338 build out of this.
Thanks!
CEH

 

[Wyatt Smith]

My father has a 1943 German Mauser. It is not half the rifle as my Chilean 1935 carbine.
The action is sloppy and rough, fit and Finnish are poor, even for a military rifle.

 

[mdwest]

mdwest,
Thanks! I know we’ve discussed this Mauser action dilemma before. From my limited research, I see the GEWs were manufactured until 1935 when the K98s were then produced. I know you’ve stated that the war made K98s may not have been the “best” made, so I figured the pre WW2 GEWs might have been manufactured more “carefully “? The reason I’m inquiring now, is there’s a J.P Sauer and Sohn’s (?) GEW 98 in .338 WM for sale on GB for at least a reasonable bid price for now. I’m thinking about another .416 Taylor or possibly a .375-.338 build out of this.
Thanks!
CEH

Its possible to get a good action made during the war years.. and its possible to get a "bad" one made before WWII.. but.. thats far less likely than the opposite..

Once the war kicked off they upped production to meet their greater level of need and some quality control went out the window.. the other issue is, that once raw materials started getting more scarce, they had to resort to using lessor quality materials... steel quality degraded, etc..

If you can find GEW 98 or a Kar98 manufactured pre 1939 in a German factory at a fair price.. I'd snatch it up in a New York minute.. It is highly likely that it will be a very well made action and a perfect platform to start a .416T or .375-338 build on unless it got abused somewhere between the 1930's and today..

The good news is.. while its nice to have all original, matched components.. if the action components got abused, but the action itself is in good shape.. its really no big deal to drop in a different bolt release, different bottom metal, safety, bolt shroud, etc.. Thats one of the really nice things about working with an old military action.. the tolerances are loose enough by design that you can just pull one part off, grab a replacement, and put it on.. and 99 out of 100 times it will fit and work perfectly.. If youre rebarreling, you have to fit the new barrel to the action and bolt anyway.. so you can even replace the bolt with no additional work or concern if necessary..

 

[Wyatt Smith]

If you guys are interested check Sarco for old military actions. They have all kinds and good prices. Mauser 98s, 93s, P14, M17, Lee Enfield, SKS barrels receivers.
They also have some double square bridge Mauser sporting actions. Complete with flip open bottom metal and Win 70 safety. They are made in Belgium.

 

[mdwest]

$99 for the SR mauser actions Sarco is selling is a pretty good deal for anyone wanting to build a nice little 7x57/7mm Mauser/.275 Rigby...

I built my 7x57 on an 1893 SR Mauser.. Its a schweeeeet little rifle..

 

[CoElkHunter]

My father has a 1943 German Mauser. It is not half the rifle as my Chilean 1935 carbine.
The action is sloppy and rough, fit and Finnish are poor, even for a military rifle.

Does the Chilean have a Mauser type action? If so, maybe your father’s war time made Mauser was manufactured in a hurry and sloppily for the war effort? Don’t know?

 

[CoElkHunter]

If you guys are interested check Sarco for old military actions. They have all kinds and good prices. Mauser 98s, 93s, P14, M17, Lee Enfield, SKS barrels receivers.
They also have some double square bridge Mauser sporting actions. Complete with flip open bottom metal and Win 70 safety. They are made in Belgium.

Wyatt,
Thanks for this info, I’ll check Sarco out! Seems like the prices for just a Mauser/P14/P17 actions on GB are usually high.
CEH

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Does the Chilean have a Mauser type action? If so, maybe your father’s war time made Mauser was manufactured in a hurry and sloppily for the war effort? Don’t know?

It’s a Mauser 98 made in Oberndorf Germany for the Chilean military.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well, that GEW 98 on GB went for $594 plus $35 shipping. Add $25-35 for a transfer fee and the “mirage” of a good deal went right out the window!
That is if one wanted to pay for either a rebore or new barrel for a different caliber, which is what my intended purpose was when initially looking at this rifle.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My father has a 1943 German Mauser. It is not half the rifle as my Chilean 1935 carbine.
The action is sloppy and rough, fit and Finnish are poor, even for a military rifle.

@wyatt Smith
The 1909 and Vz34 are supposed to be the pick of the bunch, with the Vz34 being the better of the 2.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Its possible to get a good action made during the war years.. and its possible to get a "bad" one made before WWII.. but.. thats far less likely than the opposite..

Once the war kicked off they upped production to meet their greater level of need and some quality control went out the window.. the other issue is, that once raw materials started getting more scarce, they had to resort to using lessor quality materials... steel quality degraded, etc..

If you can find GEW 98 or a Kar98 manufactured pre 1939 in a German factory at a fair price.. I'd snatch it up in a New York minute.. It is highly likely that it will be a very well made action and a perfect platform to start a .416T or .375-338 build on unless it got abused somewhere between the 1930's and today..

The good news is.. while its nice to have all original, matched components.. if the action components got abused, but the action itself is in good shape.. its really no big deal to drop in a different bolt release, different bottom metal, safety, bolt shroud, etc.. Thats one of the really nice things about working with an old military action.. the tolerances are loose enough by design that you can just pull one part off, grab a replacement, and put it on.. and 99 out of 100 times it will fit and work perfectly.. If youre rebarreling, you have to fit the new barrel to the action and bolt anyway.. so you can even replace the bolt with no additional work or concern if necessary..

@mdwest
Is a new York minute as quick as a seagull on a hot chip.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If you guys are interested check Sarco for old military actions. They have all kinds and good prices. Mauser 98s, 93s, P14, M17, Lee Enfield, SKS barrels receivers.
They also have some double square bridge Mauser sporting actions. Complete with flip open bottom metal and Win 70 safety. They are made in Belgium.

@Wyatt Smith
The P14 and M17 make up into beautiful rifles. It is possible to take a lot of metal off to trim the action up and lighten it. It is also a stronger action than t he 98 as proven by PO Ackley. Can easily be made magnum length as well. If the action is left as cock on closing it is extremely quick to operate the bolt as well.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

The issue for me when looking at the handful of photos attached to these older rifles with Mauser/P14/P17, etc., actions for sale online, is I don’t know what I’m looking at? They ALL look old and well used to me. How does one know from looking at the photos if they’re even worth the asking price? Are parts missing or worn beyond their function? Sure, you can replace parts, but depending on how many or cost, I can potentially see dollar signs floating out of the action when you pull the bolt back? I guess if you can find a working action in decent shape for a couple of hundred bucks, but buying a built rifle for $500 or more and then having to rebore/buy a barrel and maybe replace the stock, now your pushing $800-1k for a $500 rifle?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The issue for me when looking at the handful of photos attached to these older rifles with Mauser/P14/P17, etc., actions for sale online, is I don’t know what I’m looking at? They ALL look old and well used to me. How does one know from looking at the photos if they’re even worth the asking price? Are parts missing or worn beyond their function? Sure, you can replace parts, but depending on how many or cost, I can potentially see dollar signs floating out of the action when you pull the bolt back? I guess if you can find a working action in decent shape for a couple of hundred bucks, but buying a built rifle for $500 or more and then having to rebore/buy a barrel and maybe replace the stock, now your pushing $800-1k for a $500 rifle?

@ CoElkHunter
The good thing about the P14 is that it was only made for a couple of years before it was to become the M17.
The P14 didn't see that much use and were then put into storage and only used by the British home guard in WW11 so the majority will be in great condition. The beauty of the P14s is that the 303 British has the same diameter rim as a standard magnum. Therefore rebarreling to a magnum doesn't need bolt face alterations and can very easily be altered to full size magnum.
The beauty of the P14s and the M17's is in their ugliness. With the guppy belly magazine it allows an extra cartridge to be loaded because of the shape.
Most people think the M17 in 30 ought six is a 5 shot but in reality it actually holds six.
When using it for a custom job and if you want the smooth stock lines an 03 Springfield bottom metal can easily be modified to suit..
I think I I dribbled enough.
Bob

 

[walk-in]

Look for VZ-24 actions made by Brno. Even ones made during the war seem to have a good reputation. I have one that I stripped off a very "well used" 30-06 sporter. The action has the Guatemalan crest, indicating that it is from the 1930s. I turned it into a very heavy 22-250 that shoots better than I can.

You probably already know this, but this kind of rifle build has to be a labor of love. You definitely will put more money into it than simply buying a new modern rifle. That said, I firmly believe every true rifle lover should have at least one sporterized Mauser. Luckily, my wife has no idea how much mine cost.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Nope.

The main things to consider when looking at any milsurp 98 mauser is the factory it came out of and it’s date of manufacture..

If you have a between the wars Kar98 from one of the German factory, you’re likely looking at a well made action that is composed of quality steel and a true craftsman’s touch..

If it was built in 1944.... not so much...

I agree with you mdwest.

 

[DavidAZ]

$99 for the SR mauser actions Sarco is selling is a pretty good deal for anyone wanting to build a nice little 7x57/7mm Mauser/.275 Rigby...

I built my 7x57 on an 1893 SR Mauser.. Its a schweeeeet little rifle..

mdwest,
Please tell us more about your 7X57 Mauser build- I'm looking at those Sarco 93s and that is exactly what I have in mind.