Further evidence of the decline of the 450/400 3"?

[Tiger2001]

Hello all. I am big fan of the 450/400 3" cartridge and used to own and hunt with a Ruger No. 1. Easy to shoot and deadly on everything it is a great cartridge and I was determined to make my next double rifle investment a 450/400 3" whether it be a Krieghoff, Chapuis, Heym, or even a Sabatti. However, I have been following the ammo market closely (I do not reload) and have been wary of the slim pickings in recent years for this cartridge. Ten years ago Kynoch, Norma, and Hornady all offered the 450/400 3" in their line up. Now it's down to Hornady alone. I just happened to check out the Beretta website as the owners of Chapuis to see their Elan and Elan Artisan models. Lo and behold the 450/400 3" seems to be gone as an option in a double! You can now choose between .470 NE and 375 H&H only.

Not sure if this is a temporary development or a trend in the downward slope of the (commercially available anyway) 450/400 3". I hope I am wrong but welcome the thoughts of others on this forum who are more experienced and perhaps even more in the know. Thanks and Happy Easter!

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

Still listed on the Chapuis USA site. Hopefully the old girl stays around as I too plan to grab a double in the ‘400 Jeff’ someday

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I hatefully predict that we're entering another "Dark Age" of big bore rifles & ammunition offerings (the first one was when I.C.I Kynoch stopped making center fire rifle ammunition in 1969).

Unless you hand load, the only good double rifles which you should invest in... are those chambered in relatively easily available calibers (namely the .470 Nitro Express & the .500 Nitro Express). And even ammunition for those, is not exactly easy to source these days.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Also listed on the Heym catalogue, and quite a few of the Heym doubles that came into South Africa in the 2023 batch were 450/400 3".
I am not seeing a decline.

 

[Rare Breed]

Hello all. I am big fan of the 450/400 3" cartridge and used to own and hunt with a Ruger No. 1. Easy to shoot and deadly on everything it is a great cartridge and I was determined to make my next double rifle investment a 450/400 3" whether it be a Krieghoff, Chapuis, Heym, or even a Sabatti. However, I have been following the ammo market closely (I do not reload) and have been wary of the slim pickings in recent years for this cartridge. Ten years ago Kynoch, Norma, and Hornady all offered the 450/400 3" in their line up. Now it's down to Hornady alone. I just happened to check out the Beretta website as the owners of Chapuis to see their Elan and Elan Artisan models. Lo and behold the 450/400 3" seems to be gone as an option in a double! You can now choose between .470 NE and 375 H&H only.

Not sure if this is a temporary development or a trend in the downward slope of the (commercially available anyway) 450/400 3". I hope I am wrong but welcome the thoughts of others on this forum who are more experienced and perhaps even more in the know. Thanks and Happy Easter!

Custom loaders like Hendershot should be able to help you sense you don’t reload. I had the Chapuis 450-400 a sweet shooting caliber for sure!

 

[Bandera]

i am also a 450-400 fan. I was looking to buy another Ruger No. 1 that I sold a few years ago. Found a decent deal on the rifle on Gun Broker.
I then decided to see what was available ammo wise. Nothing much out there. Well I reload, so what components are available? No brass that I could find. Projectiles are available, but very limited.

 

[flying sailor]

I was able to purchase Hornady components about a year ago. have a small stash of brass. Bullets are somewhat hard to find now. Just have to be ready to buy as much as you can when they show up. Hornady also seems to be the only loaded rounds, so again, buy a bunch. god luck!

 

[Tiger2001]

No argument re the 450/400 3" being a great caliber. However, just a few years ago .375 Flanged and 450 NE were standard ammo offerings by the three aforementioned companies (and probably a few others I failed to note). And now? You won't find the ammo anywhere. And likewise Krieghoff, Chapuis, and others have stopped offering those calibers in their doubles. One off shipments aside, I just wonder if the overall trend is pointing to the 450/400 3" going into oblivion once again. If Hornady ever decides to stop making the 450/400 3", then there are going to be a lot of people scrambling for the stocks of ammo that are left.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hello all. I am big fan of the 450/400 3" cartridge and used to own and hunt with a Ruger No. 1. Easy to shoot and deadly on everything it is a great cartridge and I was determined to make my next double rifle investment a 450/400 3" whether it be a Krieghoff, Chapuis, Heym, or even a Sabatti. However, I have been following the ammo market closely (I do not reload) and have been wary of the slim pickings in recent years for this cartridge. Ten years ago Kynoch, Norma, and Hornady all offered the 450/400 3" in their line up. Now it's down to Hornady alone. I just happened to check out the Beretta website as the owners of Chapuis to see their Elan and Elan Artisan models. Lo and behold the 450/400 3" seems to be gone as an option in a double! You can now choose between .470 NE and 375 H&H only.

Not sure if this is a temporary development or a trend in the downward slope of the (commercially available anyway) 450/400 3". I hope I am wrong but welcome the thoughts of others on this forum who are more experienced and perhaps even more in the know. Thanks and Happy Easter!

I have the Kgun with the .450/400 barrels now and love it. During my short tenure with it Hornady has been the only ammo manufacturer. I was able to get ammo and components and now have a good stash. I use John at Safari Arms to load for me. He is great To work with. I sat down with Rigby at SCI (mistake) and they make .450/400 as do many others. I believe the caliber is on the rise as it has been for quite a few years. When more people have the experience I have had it will keep growing!

 

[Philip Glass]

I hatefully predict that we're entering another "Dark Age" of big bore rifles & ammunition offerings (the first one was when I.C.I Kynoch stopped making center fire rifle ammunition in 1969).

Unless you hand load, the only good double rifles which you should invest in... are those chambered in relatively easily available calibers (namely the .470 Nitro Express & the .500 Nitro Express). And even ammunition for those, is not exactly easy to source these days.

Habib,
A double can be a life changing investment. With So many quality custom loaders why would someone overlook a caliber just because they don't want to spend their time tinkering with reloading? I am perfectly happy with my situation.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

i am also a 450-400 fan. I was looking to buy another Ruger No. 1 that I sold a few years ago. Found a decent deal on the rifle on Gun Broker.
I then decided to see what was available ammo wise. Nothing much out there. Well I reload, so what components are available? No brass that I could find. Projectiles are available, but very limited.

Be patient. It is out there and more to come. Sure it's not like .243 on the shelf.

 

[Tiger2001]

Habib,
A double can be a life changing investment. With So many quality custom loaders why would someone overlook a caliber just because they don't want to spend their time tinkering with reloading? I am perfectly happy with my situation.
Philip

For many it is not a matter of those not wanting to spend their time tinkering with re-loading. Depending where one lives in the world, reloading may not be an option or at least a financially realistic one. Therefore having access to ready available ammo stocks gets factored into the investment in a double rifle. At least for me as I don't need a fancy wall ornament.

 

[Tiger2001]

I hatefully predict that we're entering another "Dark Age" of big bore rifles & ammunition offerings (the first one was when I.C.I Kynoch stopped making center fire rifle ammunition in 1969).

Unless you hand load, the only good double rifles which you should invest in... are those chambered in relatively easily available calibers (namely the .470 Nitro Express & the .500 Nitro Express). And even ammunition for those, is not exactly easy to source these days.

Hunter-Habib you're spot on. I doubt I have a fraction of the experience you do but I am old enough to remember when doubles were limited to non rimmed 375 H&H and 458 WM as all the great British calibers were left to Hollywood movies and hunting books. From the 1960's to the 1990's that was the case and then there was a great revival with gun manufacturers making affordable doubles and reviving long lost calibers. That seems to have lasted until around 2012-2015 or so. Now we seem to be headed slowly back the other way. Not sure how to stop or reverse this trend and sadly it is not limited to just double rifles now. Even what used to be standard safari calibers such as the great 375 H&H is no longer a regular offering by companies. CZ is out of the safari business, Ruger has lost its mind and gone totally proprietary, Winchester is hit or miss, Remington is gone. And I think even Sako has stopped making their Brown Bear XL series. Not a good outlook overall and I wish I knew why.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Habib,
A double can be a life changing investment. With So many quality custom loaders why would someone overlook a caliber just because they don't want to spend their time tinkering with reloading? I am perfectly happy with my situation.
Philip

Philip, I’m just as crazy as you. That’s why my dream double rifle is a Heym Jumbo in .600 NITRO EXPRESS (of all calibers).

But by the original poster’s own admission, he doesn’t hand load. Nor does he appear to have access to custom loaders (like Hendershots or Superior or John La Sala). So that has to be taken into consideration when recommending a double rifle caliber for him.

 

[Tex .416]

Hunter-Habib you're spot on. I doubt I have a fraction of the experience you do but I am old enough to remember when doubles were limited to non rimmed 375 H&H and 458 WM as all the great British calibers were left to Hollywood movies and hunting books. From the 1960's to the 1990's that was the case and then there was a great revival with gun manufacturers making affordable doubles and reviving long lost calibers. That seems to have lasted until around 2012-2015 or so. Now we seem to be headed slowly back the other way. Not sure how to stop or reverse this trend and sadly it is not limited to just double rifles now. Even what used to be standard safari calibers such as the great 375 H&H is no longer a regular offering by companies. CZ is out of the safari business, Ruger has lost its mind and gone totally proprietary, Winchester is hit or miss, Remington is gone. And I think even Sako has stopped making their Brown Bear XL series. Not a good outlook overall and I wish I knew why.

Very simple, it is not profitable.

Overhead factors into price per unit. The price point for their customers requires a certain volume to be profitable. Obviously there are not enough customers at their price point buying new rifles in these chamberings to achieve profitability. The small manufacturers like Heym have enough customers at their price point to make the numbers work.

The same is true for ammo manufacturers.

 

[AZDAVE]

We have been in a down swing of the supply channel and events in the world. a little over a year ago all you could basically find was 223 and 9mm. There was very little of anything else on the shelves at the big suppliers and or LGS's. You can now walk into a store and buy most of the common hunting rounds. You can find most all primers but the large rifle primers. With a couple bigger wars going on alot of the worlds manufacturing capability is geared up to meet those requirements and stockpile against possibility of them spreading to nearby countries. So I don't think the 450/400 is in decline it just that it hasn't made it to the time to do a Run of 450/400 ammo and components level for the manufactures. I will say that if you don't reload you are at the whim of the supply and demand of the manufactures and should plan your purchases with that in mind.

 

[uplander01]

I work for Benelli USA and Chapuis is part of our line up, I don't see the 450-400 going anywhere. It's a real common sense choice for a versatile double without the punishing recoil. Now the question is will they build a an Iphisi model in 450-400,.....even if it was an extractor gun I believe they would sell a lot of them. The 375 Iphisi has sold well.

Maybe we should have a poll and pull Tom Leoni from BUSA into the mix.......I'm sure he's on here-----TOM?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

i am also a 450-400 fan. I was looking to buy another Ruger No. 1 that I sold a few years ago. Found a decent deal on the rifle on Gun Broker.
I then decided to see what was available ammo wise. Nothing much out there. Well I reload, so what components are available? No brass that I could find. Projectiles are available, but very limited.

Bertrams also does brass.

 

[Rare Breed]

Habib,
A double can be a life changing investment. With So many quality custom loaders why would someone overlook a caliber just because they don't want to spend their time tinkering with reloading? I am perfectly happy with my situation.
Philip

To all my friends…we will have to get @Philip Glass over to the dark side of reloading!!!! lol!!!

 

[TOBY458]

There was a bunch of 450/400 ammo on gunbroker just a few weeks ago. There were several vendors who had 10+ boxes in stock each.