For Sale Fixer Searcy Double In 500/416 NE

@rookhawk Maybe you should start a weekend class on the operation and nomenclature of double rifles. There are many of us which could learn a lot even if we never put it to use!

Here is a photo description so you can follow along with the words we are using.

Several photos of garden variety double barrel shotgun for parts labeling purposes and pictures of the before-and-after Butch Searcy repair on the gun that is the essence of Matt's dilemma.

Picture 1 shows where one of two release latches often exist, this one an Anson Plunger, Matt's is a Deeley latch. In either case, these much mate up to the hook or loop of the barrel and be tight to regulate a gun with consistent harmonics while also need to be held on so that the forend doesn't fall off the gun. The "bites" are the two or three places that hold the barrels SAFELY under discharge to the action of the gun.


Labled1.JPG


Second photo. The gray box is an exaggeration of what was machined off the barrels of Matt's gun. This was done so the gun chamber was shorter, so that it could be reamed again curing a defective breach/chamber that ate ammo. Note that when that is removed, the three other areas all must be built up with annealing (softening) the metal, tig-welding new metal on, then machining all the surfaces so that the gun's anchor points will all be back where they were supposed to be. In later pictures, you'll see what we know that wasn't done. (e.g. it doesn't eject and it closes differently with different toplever engagement of the bites.


Labeled3.JPG



Picture 3 shows some of the basic parts. In addition to the bites (not circles, but visible), each of the circles spots must be addressed with annealing and adding more material, then dressing (machining and polishing) to fit OR by removing more material as appropriate. In Matt's case, the ejector dogs are now closer to the breach more than likely and need to be annealed, dressed down, and retimed, along with other circled areas.
Labeled2.JPG



Another image from a shotgun for example, showing the labeled areas that need machining to function correctly for opening/closing the gun, ejection to work correctly.

Labeled4.JPG



Now to pictures of before-and-after of Matt's gun. When he bought it, and then after Searcy serviced the gun. This picture shows the gun's screws in time. You would go into the floorplate of an Anson & Deeley boxlock action to either A.) Fix the ejectors...we know that wasn't done, or B.) to address bite engagement. You would prefer the work be done to the barrels rather than to the bite in the action because you want the barrels to wear, not the receiver.

MattBefore3.jpg


Now the picture post-Searcy work. Here you can see that someone has opened the action, screws are out of time. There are scratches near the screws like someone slipped while trying to open or close the action during gunsmithing.

MattAfter1.JPG


This is the really important picture below, and how I rest my case that Searcy milled the breach of the gun without doing any of the complicated work required to make sure the gun is locking up correctly, top lever engaged fully, screws re-timed, etc. See the circled areas. The gun barrels have been shortened by the breach and they are set back on the action, what he had to do to rechamber the gun. Note the looseness of the forend. The airgap that now exists at the forend-meets-receiver, and that the water table is set back. Every part that plays a role on locking up the gun, ejecting, etc. is precisely too long or too short by exactly the distance of the gap at top. Clearly, the forend was worked back on the action, but not in all areas, only at the knuckle/pin, not in the other two critical points for functionality.

MattAfter3.JPG




Thus, when you review the pictures and my prior posts on what needs to be done, the definitions and the explanations will make more sense with the illustrations. None of the work remaining on the gun should be entertained by a "quality gunsmith" of any sort, this work must be performed by a double rifle mechanic capable of building a double rifle, because in essence, the repairs needed are EXACTLY the same type of work required to fit a brand new set of barrels to an action by hand. I'm not sure of what work Mr. Searcy is capable of doing in house versus what he farms out, but it is likely that fitting brand-new barrels is within his capability (clearly it is) but installing custom barrels from scratch (basically, the steps required herein) may be outside his skills as it would be for many of the top makers today. I do not believe Merkel, or Krieghoff, or any other high volume quality maker today could do the repair work shown herein, it would require a custom builder that is working off of one-off tolerances rather than extremely consistent, off the shelf new parts. Thus, I make an assumption that Mr. Searcy gave up as well because it is entering an area of time consuming hand work that would be greater than starting over.
 
I bet I started 30 different answers to this thread and not a one of them ended in me saying, " if the price is right I'll send a check right now".

I have bought many gun collections over the years, some of which have been sizeable (100+guns), and not everyone of them has been a home run either. Some I don't even think about selling to anyone as the best that they will ever be is a tomato stake in my garden of shame or a welded up wall hanger in an American Legion and they mostly could fire, but being in ruff shape with a bad serial number or made in the last days of the war, why waste my time.

It's a shame that you were took Matt, you seem like a great guy, but from the little I have seen that rifle has a laundry list of issues that if it were mine I wouldn't even give it away.

Better luck in the future.
 
It's a shame that you were took Matt, you seem like a great guy, but from the little I have seen that rifle has a laundry list of issues that if it were mine I wouldn't even give it away.

you are far wealthier then me, not all of us can afford to just eat an $11,000 loss and not try to recover some of it.

i wont screw someone over, if someone buys this then i will make sure to provide every bit of information i can so they know what they are getting into. i have not held back on anything in this thread or with the people who have called me about the rifle.

-matt
 
Matt,

No one even inferred that you were out to screw anyone over.

From what I have seen and read Matt, I wouldn't even fire that weapon as it sits now and most assuridly would not hunt dg with it as it is bad now and it's not going to get better from firing it.

It appears to have a serious lock problem that I am guessing manifested itself by somehow discharging when the gun was not completely locked up just bending the gun out of wack or some kitchen table gunsmith had his way with it ,once again....just a guess.

If that rifle was wrecking brass when you bought it and you knew it then I am sorry for you that you didn't know that was a bad problem when you bought it.

Was the guy you brought it from the original verifiable owner? Or has this weapon been a passed around problem for a long time and has been worked on by a cadre of clods who's only success is to make it worse than it originally was the first time it was looked at?

As I've read this thread I wonder just how you and a few other guys have said what the price of righting this wrong gun as if you are reading it from an written estimate from an accredited double rifle Smith.

So no, l don't believe that you are attempting to con anyone with the sale of this rifle.

If someone buys it after reading this entire thread you most certainly can walk away with a clear conscience.
 
It appears to have a serious lock problem that I am guessing manifested itself by somehow discharging when the gun was not completely locked up just bending the gun out of wack or some kitchen table gunsmith had his way with it ,once again....just a guess.

um what? o_O

the lock on this rifle is fine. i have no idea where your getting some of these ideas from but i assure you the gun is safe to shoot.

-matt
 
Ok Matt,

If you say so.

Best of luck getting rid of it.
 
um what? o_O

the lock on this rifle is fine. i have no idea where your getting some of these ideas from but i assure you the gun is safe to shoot.

-matt

My opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans, but I see no evidence that anything is bent on Matt's gun from firing, etc. The "lock up" of the top lever geometry has changed since Mr. Searcy worked on it and that can be seen in before and after pictures, but that doesn't mean anything is "bent" or was damaged under recoil. The hook, loop, dogs, latch, ejector spurs, screws, and bites need to be added/subtracted to unless they have been already. (And some of them HAVE been addressed already like the hook, otherwise the gun wouldn't close) Gun needs a double rifle mechanic, time and money, OR a very patient gunsmith that would tinker for themselves and not rush it whatsoever. Odds are better than not that it can be saved if it is addressed by an expert.

Expert =
JJ Peridoux
Martin Hayn
Ellis Brown
Todd Ramirez
Mark Cromwell
Probably 4-5 more in North America
Easily 20 people in the UK
 
I extended an offer to Matt85 on his double rifle. He's a helluva nice guy and I feel for him as he has been through the ringer. While it didn't work out for me, someone with some patience and a good double rifle mechanic stands a strong chance of getting the gun back to its former glory. It's just going to take awhile. I think he's open to offers and he has a LOT of brass, dies, bullets, etc. for the gun also. Reach out to him.
 
Matt, after 7 pages of comments, what IS your bottom dollar price for the gun?
 
As Rookhawk noted, this rifle has a niche market- those that are knowledgeable and skilled enough at repairing breakaction guns to have a positive answer to the equation Purchase price + parts + labor = Sales price. If the purchaser can provide the labor, then the net result would be an hourly rate equal to the value he places on his time. Most of us, me included would need to purchase that labor from a qualified double-gunsmith, the result being the cost goes well beyond the potential value. It looks to be what could be a very nice gun- such the pity.
 
Matt, this thread is already 6 pages and seems to be going on forever;)

I think that you have to end the saga and either:

1) keep it
2) raffle it off
3) find your bottom dollar and sell it

I say this respectfully of course since it's your gun;)
Afraid I don't really get why someone feels the need to tell another member that his thread has gone on too long, you don't like it, don't read it.;)o_O If you want the gun make an offer.;)
 
Matt, after 7 pages of comments, what IS your bottom dollar price for the gun?

i lowered my price for @rookhawk and he passed so i suppose it only fair to extend that to every one else.

im now asking $5000 for the rifle and all its shooting supplies. (huge supply of brass, some bullets, and a set of dies)

-matt
 
@matt85 Did you ever get some factory ammo and try to shoot it?

i did get a box of Hornady ammunition and if memory serves right it worked "ok" but not great. the gun was originally set up for 400gr Barnes X bullets so it wasnt a great shock that Hornady didnt work well.

-matt
 
i still have the rifle.

-matt
 

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Cwoody wrote on Woodcarver's profile.
Shot me email if Beretta 28 ga DU is available
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Pancho wrote on Safari Dave's profile.
Enjoyed reading your post again. Believe this is the 3rd time. I am scheduled to hunt w/ Legadema in Sep. Really looking forward to it.
check out our Buff hunt deal!
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I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
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