Emirates - Worst hunting airline experience ever

My understanding was that tsa locks aren't allowed on gun cases?

I don't believe there is any law saying that you can't use them, you just shouldn't use them on your gun case. Once they inspect your case and rifle at check in they should never need to get inside it again. However that doesn't mean that something won't happen once you are out of the US. I have heard of other locks being cut off in other countries for one reason or another. The same with TSA locks on your luggage. If a inspector in a foreign country wants to check inside your bag he is just going to cut the lock off since they are not TSA.
 
I don't believe there is any law saying that you can't use them, you just shouldn't use them on your gun case.

There actually is, although I doubt it has ever been enforced.
 
Sorry to hear of such an experience, I have flown to South Africa three times on Delta out of Atlanta with no problems at all, except for the wear and tear on the Pelican Case, until just last week when I returned from Joberg to Atlanta, had my checked baggage open and checked twice, once upon arrival and again on a connection flight, also with Delta, out of Atlanta. It seems the TSA inspector needed a sealed container of Liquid soap and also thought my Prescription sunglasses would look good on them this summer, so I am now replacing a $250.00 prescription sunglasses. These inspectors must leave everyday with a grocery cart of "goodies" out of their "inspection" of checked baggage. One notice had the inspectors #, the other notice...no such number. All luggage was with TSA locks, what a joke. my Ammo pelican was also with a TSA lock, but was not opened, since I put a plastic plumbers strap thru one side. All in All I have had very good experience flying Delta.
 
Although not super clear, here you go on the locks. Obviously with a TSA lock someone other than the passenger has a key. This of course only applies in the U.S..

"Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock."

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition
 
Sorry to hear of such an experience, I have flown to South Africa three times on Delta out of Atlanta with no problems at all, except for the wear and tear on the Pelican Case, until just last week when I returned from Joberg to Atlanta, had my checked baggage open and checked twice, once upon arrival and again on a connection flight, also with Delta, out of Atlanta. It seems the TSA inspector needed a sealed container of Liquid soap and also thought my Prescription sunglasses would look good on them this summer, so I am now replacing a $250.00 prescription sunglasses. These inspectors must leave everyday with a grocery cart of "goodies" out of their "inspection" of checked baggage. One notice had the inspectors #, the other notice...no such number. All luggage was with TSA locks, what a joke. my Ammo pelican was also with a TSA lock, but was not opened, since I put a plastic plumbers strap thru one side. All in All I have had very good experience flying Delta.

Thank you for your experiences. Sorry about the glasses though, that is a bummer. Delta was always my choice until I saw a great deal from Emirates, but that old saying proved itself..."its its too good to be true" Ha, and this time it was.
 
TSA locks are worthless, other countries just cut them off if they want to inspect. Save your money.
 
TSA locks are worthless, other countries just cut them off if they want to inspect. Save your money.

They also just cut off other locks if they want to inspect.
 
The muslims will never get one penny of my $$$, ever.

Since I can't be sure it isn't going to state sponsored terrorism, ditto for me..........but now I can't shop at any of the local 7-11 or liquor stores!:LOL:
 
This will come as harsh medicine but I think your blame and facts are ALL discombobulated.

Strikes as follows:

1.) It wasn't Emirates that damaged your luggage. Unlike lazy baggage handlers in the USA that like to make political statements with people's products, on the average Emirates people just want to work and get paid. Odds are it wasn't in Dubai and odds are it wasn't an Emirates employee.

2.) Those people in Dubai that want to work handling luggage are really grateful to have a job and they usually aren't Muslim nor are they Arabs. Most of the service industry is imported from India and other nations to take those jobs. They are delighted to have those jobs and get their paychecks. Blaming "muslims" as some other poster did is also an unlikely party in this debacle.

3.) There is no Emirati baggage union that allows workers to beat the crap out of baggage and get away with it. No, with Emirates whether you make $30 an hour handling bags in Dubai or you're a flight attendant bringing in $100,000 your career is on eggshells because they can you after 3-5 years for fresh blood. Hence, no ugly old fat flight attendants if you hadn't noticed? It is a total right to work situation and one screw up like actively abusing luggage and they'll fire their ass as there is a very long line of resumes for people all over the world dying to come work in Dubai for 2x-5x the wages.

4.) Your case sucks. It wasn't designed to repel baggage handler monkeys and I hear this story over and over again. I cover it in this thread http://www.africahunting.com/threads/a-good-gun-case-for-traveling-wanted.29303/page-2#post-274225 Same thing happened to a friend flying to south america for dove hunting with same gun case. It isn't going to resist being run over by a baggage truck.

5.) Not only did you have the wrong case, you broke a cardinal rule. You ALWAYS keep your optics in quick detach mounts and on your person, never attached to your guns when traveling. It adds weight. It amplifies damage.

6.) Your baggage claim is subject to the Montreal Convention. The rules of that convention are adhered to by literally all civilized nations. Your time is worth more than bothering to file claims under that convention. Lets see, 35 pounds of rifles and they are paying what, $0.31 per pound now? Not even worth the trouble. Why would you file a claim and miss your flight when the airlines are going to pay you literally pennies per pound for damaged luggage? You get a $100,000 firearm policy back home to cover those things for cheap, you don't rely on the Montreal Convention.

7.) The miss-your-flight business is annoying, I grant you that. That is Dubai's version of TSA/FAA with stupid rules about closing the cabin door. You're familiar with stupid rules I trust, since we live in a country with more stupid aviation rules than any other? You can't berate the Emirates for enforcing a rule required by law that is beyond the jurisdiction of a corporation though, right?

I don't mean to berate you but your anger is totally misplaced. American baggage handlers surely taught you a lesson for your gun loving, safari hunting ways in my opinion. Even if it happened in Dubai it wasn't done by an Emirates employee and it wasn't done by one of those "muslims" at any rate because citizens of the UAE don't handle baggage or do manual labor. You chose a marginal travel case in my opinion but ignoring that, your decision to fly with scopes attached was a critical flaw in your overall battle plan.

People/organizations that could be blamed for this debacle:

1.) Yourself
2.) US baggage handlers union
3.) World legislatures for signing the Montreal Convention
4.) Pelican cases
5.) UAE laws and/or their adherence to similar EU rules


Emirates would be way down the list, somewhere near accountable party 7-9 in the blame list.
 
If the case didn't open or crack it didn't fail.

I'd be interested to see how the foam was configured around the gun though.
 
A lot of that misfortune could have been avoided with just a little more planning. Lucky you had another scope.
For an international connection that was too close for me, having been caught myself.
You can't expect the same level of service in other countries. It just doesn't happen.
 
Im not fully convinced Emirates is 100% culpable here.. It sounds like their customer service was a bit lacking and that they could have given you better consideration regarding being out in the bush with limited connectivity, etc for a week after the incident... but..

I've flown Emirates probably 30-40 times over the past 10 years.. Usually from Dulles to Dubai.. but have also flown with them regionally from Dubai to Qatar, Abu Dhabi to Bahrain, etc.. a few times..

I have transported TONS of fragile and/or sensitive equipment with them ranging from weapons parts and magazines to body armor and helmets to optics to IT gear, etc.. and never once had a single problem..

In fact, one of the reasons I have chosen to fly with them in the past is they have always treated me considerably better than United and Delta when traveling from the US to the UAE.. and while I have had bags go missing while traveling with KLM, Delta, United, American, and ANA over the years.. I've never had one fail to show up when traveling with Emirates..

In 2015 they were rated the #2 airline in the world by Travel and Leisure.. and #5 in the world by Skytrax.. Not a single US based carrier even made the top 10 list at either place..

As roohawk points out, baggage handlers do not work for the airlines.. they work for the airports and are usually contracted out by a third party..

While the airlines take responsibility for bags they take on from your point of departure to your point of entry.. they have very limited control over the what happens before and after your bag makes it into the baggage hold of the airplane..

If the baggage handlers damaged your stuff.. it could have just as easily been damaged if you flew Delta.. or anyone else.. the same handlers handle Delta bags at the airport in Dubai that handle Emirates bags..

The likelihood that your stuff was damaged while in the actual possession of Emirates is pretty low..
 
I really don't hate to play lawyer, so here goes. There is no proof of where the damage happened, or how. A gun case could just as easily have gotten wedged in some automated baggage handling system and had substantial pressure applied to it as anything else, including baggage handlers. You have no proof who or what damaged the case, only that it was fine when you checked it, but not when you got it. That's one reason why these international treaties, like the Montreal Convention, limit liability.

Add to that the fact that you didn't report the problem right away, and you can surely see why the airline wouldn't want to accept liability. I'm not saying I don't believe you - far from it - but I am suggesting you could perhaps see the airline's side of it. I realize you were in the middle of nowhere, but you can also understand why contracts requiring notice don't have outs for people who find it difficult, even impossible, to give the notice (especially since here, it really wasn't impossible - you just were in a hurry to get on your way).

Overall, the lesson here, I think, is not that we shouldn't fly Emirates, at least not because they beat up baggage. (We shouldn't fly them because they don't allow trophies, but that's another thread). The lesson is we should be extremely careful and vigilant in how we pack our guns and optics. The Tuffpack and some of the Pelican cases allow you to put so much padding in that if the gun or scope was that badly damaged, it's likely the case would also be so damaged as to be useless, or at least the damage would be apparent as soon as you received it.

Just my perspective.
 
I never heard TSA locks aren't allowed on gun boxes? What's the logic there? Tell me more...
 
I never heard TSA locks aren't allowed on gun boxes? What's the logic there? Tell me more...

Logic is that after inspection that no one is to get in the case with the gun, no one. And if a TSA lock is on the case many many people can easily get in.
 
Logic is that after inspection that no one is to get in the case with the gun, no one. And if a TSA lock is on the case many many people can easily get in.

And to further the logic more criminally: You are prima facie guilty of weapons charges if they open that gun case as you enter customs at destination B and they find something they don't like. They require that you use a lock that only you have a key to in order to put all legal obligation on you. Thus, you can't say "It wasn't me", I didn't pack that"!".

You don't want to be like this guy:


The confusing part is that ammo is the opposite. Ammo must have TSA locks that everyone can get into and look at, rifles must have locks that no one can get into and look at.

To quote a former Federal Reserve Chairman "if you clearly understand me you're mistaken". :)
 
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A friend and I flew through Franfurt last year. SAA out of Franfurt to Jberg.
My friend's rifle was in a nice Pelican case. A wheel was bent and evidence that his case had been gone into. Lock shackles were scratched up and bother barrels were laying in the same slot in the foam.
On the trip home his case showed up cracked. (A cracked Pelican case!!)
I had no damage in my less expensive Plano case and it looks a lot cheaper than a Pelican case. Hmmmmm.

By the way what's the current thought on how to carry a spare scope ---
carry on, checked baggage, in the rifle case ?
 
By the way what's the current thought on how to carry a spare scope ---
carry on, checked baggage, in the rifle case ?

Scopes with quick detach rings, wrapped up in Shemaghs or a T-shirt. Carried in your duffle on the plane where it will never leave your sight. Optics must be pulled from your cold dead hands. Never let go of them at any point during your trip! (only way to be sure they'll hold a zero because you KNOW they weren't slammed around in transport)
 
Scopes with quick detach rings, wrapped up in Shemaghs or a T-shirt. Carried in your duffle on the plane where it will never leave your sight. Optics must be pulled from your cold dead hands. Never let go of them at any point during your trip! (only way to be sure they'll hold a zero because you KNOW they weren't slammed around in transport)

Is TSA allowing them in carry on?
Thanks
 

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