Does it matter to you?

[SStomcat]

When hunting a Dagga Boy, elephant, or hippo, your PH should be carrying a proper stopping rifle—either a double in a true stopping calibre (.450 NE and up) or a bolt gun in an adequate calibre.

The question is: would you prefer one over the other, or do you not particularly care?

Let’s keep this discussion specific to Dagga Boy and elephant—no cats, please.

 

[mdwest]

I think it depends..

On the first buffalo hunt I ever did no stopping rifle was present…

There were however 3x PH’s.. one had his DG license and the other two were highly experienced PH’s that were finishing up the requirements to get their DG licenses..

I carried a 375 H&H, the two PH’s working on their licenses also had 375 H&H rifles, and the lead PH carried his 416 Rigby.

While no stopping rifles were present there were 4 very experienced hunters/shooters present, all with DG caliber rifles. I felt perfectly safe.

The PH I hunt DG with now (one of the same PH’s on that first hunt) now owns a 500 NE double. So now whenever we head out for a buffalo a 375 H&H and a 500 NE are present minimally.. and again, I feel perfectly safe..

A big part of it is.. I hunt buffalo with a PH I know extremely well and absolutely trust. I know his demeanor under pressure, I know his shooting skills, and I know his experience with buffalo…

If for some reason he decided to take his 375 H&H on the next buff we chase, I’d assume there is a good reason for it (I do indeed trust him), and I’d happily head out on a buffalo hunt…

 

[SStomcat]

@mdwest, well said, and I love your first line - It really depends
Now, let me get a little more specific, if that’s OK with you. Say you’re hunting with a PH you know and trust—someone whose judgment, experience, and reactions under pressure you’ve come to rely on. That’s one scenario.

But what if you’re hunting with a PH before you’ve had the opportunity to truly know him and his skills to that extent? Would anything change then? Would you still not care whether he’s carrying a .375 versus a .500 or something larger?

 

[thi9elsp]

I liken this question to an airplane pilot. Neither they nor a ph is going to use their tool if it’s not ready for the job at hand. I Never questioned never would. My three ph’s carried bolt action. 2 - 458 Lott, 1 - 460 Weatherby

 

[chashardy]

I want the PH to carry whatever he wants and knows he shoots the best.

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest
But what if you’re hunting with a PH before you’ve had the opportunity to truly know him and his skills to that extent? Would anything change then? Would you still not care whether he’s carrying a .375 versus a .500 or something larger?

Easy answer…

I’m not hunting buffalo with him…

For me the caliber is the smaller part of the equation… the man is a much bigger and more important factor…

I’ve spent a substantial portion of my life, risking said life, in the company of other men..

Before that risk is taken those men are vetted… depending on the situation (military, LEO, or security contractor) they are trained to a certain standard, selected, and then put onto a team in a “new guy” status until they are proven..

A PH on a DG hunt should be no different… they get trained… they get experienced.. then the client (me) selects them and starts to get to know them, does something like a PG hunt with them, and establishes they are someone I trust to hunt DG with…

Then we go DG hunting..

Not before..

 

[Bonk]

As has been mentioned many times on this forum on many different topics usually the best idea is to defer to your PH because they probably know what they’re doing. That’s how I look at this topic too. My PH can use whatever rifle he thinks is best under the circumstances. Not all PHs can afford a big caliber double rifle. Many have to go to work with a bolt action rifle chambered in something more mundane. If I were hunting DG and the PH showed up with something less than 375H&H we might have a conversation about his choice but I’d still defer to his judgement.

If I book a hunt with an outfit advertising DG hunts I can only assume they have the experience and equipment necessary to provide the service. Yeah, I know what assume infers but the point is outfits that do DG hunts usually know what they’re doing.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I also believe the PH and his skill and temperament is more important than the size of the gun

 

[BJH65]

But what if you’re hunting with a PH before you’ve had the opportunity to truly know him and his skills to that extent? Would anything change then? Would you still not care whether he’s carrying a .375 versus a .500 or something larger?

There are some very experienced and accomplished PH’s right here on AH who use a bolt action 375 H&H as their backup rifle for DG. Better you worry about your own skills than your PH’s. The vast majority of “problems” caused by the hunter will be “solved” by the PH.

 

[Levubu]

That‘s completely up to the PH. It‘s not the business of a hobbie hunter to think about that! Good grief, what a question! When you are at a hospital for a surgery, do you discuss with the surgeon the tools he gonna uses? You are a just a visiting hunter… I have received my first PH permit many years ago.

 

[SStomcat]

Easy answer…

I’m not hunting buffalo with him…

For me the caliber is the smaller part of the equation… the man is a much bigger and more important factor…

I’ve spent a substantial portion of my life, risking said life, in the company of other men..

Before that risk is taken those men are vetted… depending on the situation (military, LEO, or security contractor) they are trained to a certain standard, selected, and then put onto a team in a “new guy” status until they are proven..

A PH on a DG hunt should be no different… they get trained… they get experienced.. then the client (me) selects them and starts to get to know them, does something like a PG hunt with them, and establishes they are someone I trust to hunt DG with…

Then we go DG hunting..

Not before..

Words of wisdom Sir. Salute

 

[SStomcat]

There are some very experienced and accomplished PH’s right here on AH who use a bolt action 375 H&H as their backup rifle for DG. Better you worry about your own skills than your PH’s. The vast majority of “problems” caused by the hunter will be “solved” by the PH.

Ok fair enough
My skills is understood. However I will be more comfortable with a my PH carrying a big bore over anything else, just me.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Last safari I was culling a cow buff with my 404J and the PH had a 375 H&H. It was my first time hunting with the guy but I trusted the outfitter. Never got a shot at buff, let alone in a jackpot situation. But that's hunting. The guy proved to be a dud for other reasons. I knew nothing about his abilities but I'm very confident in mine. And that was enough for me. Did him packing a 375 raise my eyebrows? Maybe a bit. But it was okay with the outfitter. I can tell you I would not hunt plains game again with that PH let alone dangerous game. But his DGR rifle choice would not factor into the decision.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

To be a DG licensed PH, a hunter must train, and work under the mentorship of a licensed DG PH for a large number of hunts. I think it is 30 in RSA for buffalo? Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to confirm this. Before I hunt DG a minimum of two trained PH's must be present to back me up and must carry a DG rated rifle of their choosing. Who am I to question their specific choice? I have likely not hunted many of any DG in the past.

In my case for Buffalo, I went to Africa to hunt PG first and to get to know the animals and the PH first. I vetted my rifle and my skills and let the PH do the same. Then I returned to hunt Cape Buffalo and the same PH who was already DG qualified for Buffalo, led the hunt and carried a 375HH as did I. We were accompanied by another very experienced hunter who was DG qualified on Buffalo, Lion and Elephant to name a few and who also backed us up and he carried his Brno cut down to 20" with iron sights in 458wm. A 3rd PH who was gaining experience with DG in order to become certified was present and had his rifle but did not carry it into the bush. Only his 9mm pistol. We were stalking into some very thick thorn thickets and could smell the buffalo before we could see them. I am not sure if any gun is enough gun for such a hunt but I was as confident as I could be. I killed my Buffalo without any intervention needed by any of the PH's present at the time.

For Elephant, that is the only DG that I think requires a large caliber double rifle be present in the hands of at least the PH backing up the hunter and possibly the hunter as well. It is the type of hunt that the big doubles were made for and is where they shine. One shot at 20y with a very large caliber is enough (most of the time) but when that 2nd shot is necessary, the double rifle is THE answer if you want to kill your Ele yourself. If you do not mind allowing the PH to help, then it may not matter. I prefer to do the shooting when on Safari, so if I were to ever hunt Ele, it would have to be with a big double and my PH should have one as well. IMO

 

[375Fox]

I have never considered the rifle a PH carried when selecting an outfitter or PH. I don’t expect it ever will be a consideration.

 

[JimP]

What would matter to me is that the PH is very competent with the rifle that he has in his hands.

With a charging animal you might hit him with a howitzer and he'll keep on coming, or just bowl you over with his momentum.

I don't know if there is a cartridge out there that would stop a animal right in his tracks after being shot, even a brain or spine shot.

 

[grand veneur]

No matter for me, the PH will know what he needs for backup.

 

[mark-hunter]

The question is: would you prefer one over the other, or do you not particularly care?

Let’s keep this discussion specific to Dagga Boy and elephant—no cats, please.

I was exactly on one buffalo safari and one elephant safari. PH carried bolt action, and double rifle respectively. Both of them were very skilled.
So, I do not care which type of rifle they carry.

I think that in both cases most critical question is to decide whether PH will make a back up shot, or not, in case the clients first shot does not hit the spot.

Stopping shot by PH, in case of a charge goes without question.

 

[Flbt]

When hunting a Dagga Boy, elephant, or hippo, your PH should be carrying a proper stopping rifle—either a double in a true stopping calibre (.450 NE and up) or a bolt gun in an adequate calibre.

The question is: would you prefer one over the other, or do you not particularly care?

Let’s keep this discussion specific to Dagga Boy and elephant—no cats, please.

I have no African experience.
So I will look at it like a defense gun or duty gun.
Yea we might pick on or talk sh:; about different calibers and different guns.
I want you to carry what you trust what you can hit with and what you know.

The exact same with a hunt if it’s a ok caliber and the person can hit with it and knows the rifle. Good

My normal carry of a snubby 44 i would not suggest or recommend to Any one else.
Most people did not start shooting a 44 at 11 and are not my size.

 

[DLSJR]

I’ve never asked any PH what he carries when hunting dangerous game, at least not till we were out hunting and we’re talking guns. But then, I’m pretty damn particular about who I hunt DG with and have great confidence in their abilities no matter which rifle or cartridge they’re shooting. The PH’s whom I hunt with generally have a lot of years experience hunting dangerous game, so they can carry whatever they want and I won’t be questioning their choices.

Here are the cartridges my PH’s have carried to Date: 460 Weatherby (x2), 458 Winchester (x2), 470 NE, 450 Ackley, 416 Rigby, 450 Vincent Short.
All excellent back up choices.