Dangerous Game Range

[Frank Cavallo]

The biggest problem I see with sniping at dangerous game from a distance is when things do not go right and the PH and maybe the client have to chase a wounded animal in the bush. Heck, even from close up if that first shot is not at the right place things can go South.

It came out that a recently deceased Zimbabwe PH Smythe was after a wounded elephant (missed side brain shot) alone (US client refused to follow up), and now 3 kids (3rd daughter born a few months after his death) are without a father.

Yes. The last thing anyone wants is a wounded dangerous animal in the bush. I once had stalked a grizzly bear to 300 y before he scampered off and was not allowed to shoot at it as it was too far.

Ele at 15 y, leopard at 75 y, lion at 55 y, buffalo at 70 y with my 3-7-5 & 40 y with my 500. (Grizzly at 150 y, brown bear at 125 y)

 

[mark-hunter]

How close should one expect to be to be while hunting dangerous game? Someone recently told me that they got their trophy bear at over 300 yards and their guide wouldn’t get closer. That definitely didn’t seem dangerous.

In the age of long range hunting, this is not suprise. Ethics is another matter
But in old continent, Europe, bear is hunted from blind, and on bait. Distance will be 50 to 100 m.
Shooting at 300 at bear, or shooting from blind at 50, cannot be considered "dangerous". But if animal is wounded then, the situation becomes dangerous.

In Africa:
Buffalo,is hunted by tracking and stalking, distance of shooting 20 to max 100 meters.
Elephant, similar.
Lion, from blind, or by stalking, less then 100 meters
Leopard, on bait, from blind. 50, 80 meters.

Each hunt is good, untill animal is wounded. Wounding must be avoided. And first shot to vital area is critical.
The situation should never become dangerous and critical.

If the animal is wounded, situation changes significantly. Searching for wounded animal can be dangerous.

Now the question is only how would you imagine dangerous game hunting?

 

[Scott CWO]

I have been a guide for brown bears in Alaska for 16 years and since the Alaska Peninsula is only open every other year, I have worked for other operators in SE Alaska on the ABC Islands when the Alaska Peninsula is closed. I cannot imagine shooting brown bears at 300 yards. Due to the thick rain forest just off the beaches on the ABC Islands and the thick alders near the openings on the AK Peninsula, shooting a bear over 150 yards is dangerous and usually unethical. The bears can run into thick cover very easily. Too many things can go wrong at long range and result in a wounded bear in thick cover. It is hard enough trying to finish a wounded bear that has been shot at close range! Most of the bears I have guided have been shot at about 50 yards. This year, we killed one at 30 yards, another at 60 yards and another at 144 yards (on an open river/sandbar where we ran out of stalking cover). Last year, my only hunter shot his bear at 35 yards with a .375 JDJ Thompson Contender handgun.

As for grizzlies, they are mostly guided by sheep and moose guides that come across the occasional bear in more open country. These guides usually don’t specialize in bear hunting and might erroneously think it’s safer to shoot from further away? Or they are in open country and used to shooting longer ranges for sheep, goats, etc….

Interior grizzlies are smaller than coastal grizzlies (brown bears) but just as dangerous when wounded. Grizzlies are also less densely populated so a bit of desperation might also be in play? If the grizzly is in wide open terrain with time for several follow up shots, maybe you could stretch the range but it’s still a risk.

 

[freefall]

The whole point of hunting dangerous game is to experience some danger from the game, nicht wahr?
Shooting your dangerous game animal from 300 yds and counting on the professional to resolve any lingering issues seems to defeat the whole purpose.

 

[mark-hunter]

The whole point of hunting dangerous game is to experience some danger from the game, nicht wahr?

Not for me.
It is not supposed to be like that. During DG hunt there are few guns around to back up client.

Going to extreme, was the case of Mark Sullivan, known to provoke the charge on purpose, by wounding.
This was considered unethical by all main international hunting organisations. (I think they kicked him out of SCI)

Hunting DG, must be like hunting other animals. Making first, most improtant ethical shot to vitals, hoping the animal will go down without suffering.
Dangerous game animals, are called that because in some circumstances they can charge and be really dangerous, but ideally it should remain as pottential situation only. Not pushing for it. Not hoping for it.

 

[freefall]

But if the animal has 0 chance of winning, it's not a dangerous game hunt. If all one wants to do is kill an animal with no risk he'd just as well buy a cow and shoot it in the pen.

 

[mark-hunter]

But if the animal has 0 chance of winning, it's not a dangerous game hunt. If all one wants to do is kill an animal with no risk he'd just as well buy a cow and shoot it in the pen.

Not all dangerous game hunts are succesful. Does that count for chance of winning?
Hunters pay the money and simpy dont get a chance to shoot. Sometimes.

All that hunter needs to do (at close range, where animal is at advantage with smell, hearing, or sight) is to fire a precise shot at vital area.
All that animal needs to do, is keep the safe distance from hunter, using its own senses on its own grounds
Is that a chance for success?

If animal is wounded it can choose to flight or to fight. If choosing to flee, can also survive the wounding. If choosing to fight back, anything is posible.

Generally there is a group of armed men tracking the animal on its own grounds.
But hunting has always been a team work, since the beggining of mankind when they were hunting wooly mammoths in groups armed with spears.
It has always been like that. Only, today we use guns, and still wounded animal can kill a hunter.

I would suggest to read a book "White Hunters", by Brian Herne.
And check in this historical account, how many proffesional hunters have been killed by dangerous game animals. (and they were all carrying guns)

Let me ask you a question.
How would you make a dangerous game hunt?

 

[Tanks]

Not all dangerous game hunts are succesful. Does that count for chance of winning?
Hunters pay the money and simpy dont get a chance to shoot. Sometimes.

All that hunter needs to do (at close range, where animal is at advantage with smell, hearing, or sight) is to fire a precise shot at vital area.
All that animal needs to do, is keep the safe distance from hunter, using its own senses on its own grounds
Is that a chance for success?

...

Yeah, I am hunting with a double rifle. I will not take a shot at a 100 yards, preference is < 50. If we can't get close enough, so be it.

If animal is wounded it can choose to flight or to fight. If choosing to flee, can also survive the wounding. If choosing to fight back, anything is posible.

Case of the animal "choosing how to die."

 

[freefall]

Not all dangerous game hunts are succesful. Does that count for chance of winning?
Hunters pay the money and simpy dont get a chance to shoot. Sometimes.

All that hunter needs to do (at close range, where animal is at advantage with smell, hearing, or sight) is to fire a precise shot at vital area.
All that animal needs to do, is keep the safe distance from hunter, using its own senses on its own grounds
Is that a chance for success?

If animal is wounded it can choose to flight or to fight. If choosing to flee, can also survive the wounding. If choosing to fight back, anything is posible.

Generally there is a group of armed men tracking the animal on its own grounds.
But hunting has always been a team work, since the beggining of mankind when they were hunting wooly mammoths in groups armed with spears.
It has always been like that. Only, today we use guns, and still wounded animal can kill a hunter.

I would suggest to read a book "White Hunters", by Brian Herne.
And check in this historical account, how many proffesional hunters have been killed by dangerous game animals. (and they were all carrying guns)

Let me ask you a question.
How would you make a dangerous game hunt?

I own White Hunters by Brian Herne.
I would make a dangerous game hunt by hunting the animal on the ground at a range of less than 100 yards. I have had people ask me to accompany them to hunt grizzlies from tree stands, I refuse. I maintain that the point in hunting dangerous game is to be in a position that failure to perform on your part exposes you to peril.
Why would you kill an animal you can't eat if not for the gratification of overcoming it on terms that place you at risk? If you just want a dead bear (or lion,etc) they'd be pretty easy to poison.

 

[Gemsbok45]

I hope all your dangerous game acquiesces to your desires!

 

[freefall]

I really don't have any desires for them. I have only ever hunted them for money. I never got into the idea of "I need to shoot a grizzly before they're all gone".
I did want to shoot a buffalo, but reading various peoples thoughts about that in the last year or so has me reconsidering.
Probably I should just stay here and shoot a moose that will feed my family for a year.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have had people ask me to accompany them to hunt grizzlies from tree stands, I refuse. I maintain that the point in hunting dangerous game is to be in a position that failure to perform on your part exposes you to peril.
Why would you kill an animal you can't eat if not for the gratification of overcoming it on terms that place you at risk? If you just want a dead bear (or lion,etc) they'd be pretty easy to poison.

Why hunting animal that cannot be eaten? Is a good question. Lion, Leopard, or jackal, fox, etc.
As a general rule, we eat herbivores, not carnivores although there are exemptions especially in some cultures, or in some cases.
But, yes, the gratification of evercoming it on terms that places the hunter at risk, is a good explanation.

First to conisder is a motives of a hunter to hunt DG, then the question is how to tackle the risk, and what level of risk would be acceptable, for sustainable practise of DG hunt.

On motives:
There are people who will hunt for trophy (a symbol of this hunt) and there are people who will hunt for their true experience. (Why hunting tuskless ele, when cannot bring tusks home) - that goes on the intristic or extrinsic motiviations of the hunter.

On risk:
Organisation of the hunt, (more people with guns, supporting hunter, licensed PH etc), is just like any other organised human high risk activity. Risky activities are organised under prinicple of ALARP, as low as reasonably possible.
Simply put, sending a single foreign client, in unknown African rural enviroment to chase singlehandedly a wounded animal, in a bush, could result in numerous fatalities with such continous practise, and no goverment, system, or organisation would allow it.
There must be safety rules, established for this, and indeed they are. To reduce the risk.

 

[Woodcarver]

I own White Hunters by Brian Herne.
I would make a dangerous game hunt by hunting the animal on the ground at a range of less than 100 yards. I have had people ask me to accompany them to hunt grizzlies from tree stands, I refuse. I maintain that the point in hunting dangerous game is to be in a position that failure to perform on your part exposes you to peril.
Why would you kill an animal you can't eat if not for the gratification of overcoming it on terms that place you at risk? If you just want a dead bear (or lion,etc) they'd be pretty easy to poison.

Why can't you eat it? Bear meat is one of my favorite game meats. Is grizzly meat different from black bear? I do know some people don't like bear meat, same can be said of virtually any game meat, but you are saying can't. Just curious, as at some point I want to hunt both grizzly and brown bear, but planned on bringing some meat back with me.

 

[edward]

i find nothing wrong with,get as close as you can,then 10 yrds closer.

 

[edward]

lion meat is white meat and very delicious.

 

[Gemsbok45]

Fall Mountain Grizzly eating a bunch of berries. You bet! Good luck on a fish eating Brown Bear. I bet someone has a recipe!

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

How close should one expect to be to be while hunting dangerous game? Someone recently told me that they got their trophy bear at over 300 yards and their guide wouldn’t get closer. That definitely didn’t seem dangerous.

Thank you for the replies.

Wow that's pretty weird. I'm sure your guide was backing you up with at least a .338 win mag? Not sure what he was thinking. You don't want to be stupid while hunting DG but if you have the right equipment and you are effecient with that equipment I think your guide or PH should get you close enough to where you have a good angle to make a clean shot.

My self I've killed 4 of the dangerous 7 and I'm by no means some sort of guru.

My elephant I shot at 35 yards one brain shot and 1 shot in the side of the temple down .375 H&H

My lion I shot at roughly 63 yards 1 shot with a 416 Rem Mag he didn't move.

My buffalo same thing 70 yards 2 well placed shots. .375 H&H he ran 25 yards.

My hippo 120 yards behind the ear .375 H&H he was in the water

My leopard we were 60 yards from the tree the light and angle he was standing was bad I didnt shoot. But seeing his sillouette and size, my heart was nearly out of my chest.

My PH and I crawled within 30 yards of a croc on a sand bed in Zambia. We were like almost directly on top of him. He was huge at least 13 feet, I stood up slowly readying my gun on the sticks and he slid into the water, popped up about 150 yards on the other side of the river.

I wasn't scared with the elephant or buffalo but the lion, croc and leopard my blood and adrenaline were through the roof. All of it was dangerous hunting but nothing "stupid".