Cutting Edge Bullets

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by matt85, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I just picked up a box of CEB .375 300gr solids to play around with in my 375 H&H. with any luck ill be able to get them to shoot somewhere near point of aim with my iron sights. these bullets will pose some interesting challenges starting with the fact that they are made of brass. im not sure how hard brass will be on my rifling or what kind of metal fouling it might leave (although ive heard they leave no metal fouling).

    these 300gr bullets are very long but as ive noticed they still aren't as long as barnes 300gr TSX so I should be fine. overall the dimensions on these bullets are amazingly precise and im impressed with the quality. average diameter deviation has been around 0.0005" or at least that's as precise as my calipers will get.

    here are the average specs: (in inches)

    total length: 1.367
    base driving band: .374
    forward 3 driving bands: .375
    bullet body: .364
    weight: 300.1 grains +/- 0.1 grains (I measured them all and not a single one was under 300gr or over 300.2gr)

    what is your experience with CEB projectiles? do you have any pet loads you would be willing to share?

    -matt
     

  2. graybird

    graybird AH Enthusiast

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    I used some 145 gr Raptors with the tips in my 300 Win Mag on a few deer this past fall. For me, the jury is still out. I shot one doe that was roughly 150 yards out a bit low hitting the brisket. It blew a gigantic hole in not only the body cavity, but also the hide. As a guy who was thinking I might want to use these in Africa, the first thing I thought of was the cape and making a similar shot on a trophy animal.

    On the other hand, I shot a doe at about 125 yards that was slightly quartering away right in the heart. When gutting, I didn't immediately find the heart, but didn't think much of it as it was at night. Once finished, started looking for it in the gut pile, still didn't find it. Went to dump the doe, and noticed the blood wasn't draining thru the pelvis as normal. Cleaned out in the pelvis and found three chunks of the heart that were about the size of a golf ball. I looked again in the gut pile and found another chunk after I knew what I was looking at. All told, that heart literally exploded, which was quite impressive.

    I spoke with the guy who helped develop the bullet. he said i needed to put the bullets thru the shoulders instead of behind the ribs. So, as I mentioned, I'm a guy riding the fence at the moment. Then again, the larger calipers may be a totally different animal than the .308 caliber bullets I was toying with.

    Good luck!
     

  3. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I've had some excellent results with the CEB projectiles and some rather poor results. They've not flown well at all in my son's .308Win. That might be due to bullet length. I'm working (if I can ever get back to the range) with some 150gr Copper Raptors in my .300H&H. I think I've got this load figured out with a little more tweaking.

    Now in my .458B&M, things could not be better. I've got loads in the 420gr Raptor, 450gr Solid and the 260gr SOCOM. In the big boys, 1" or better groups at 100 yards with a 4x scope. The point of impact at 100 yards between the Raptor/Solid is about 1", which for the type of work they're for is just fine by me.

    The 260gr SOCOM load is crazy accurate and flies at 2900fps at the muzzle. I shot a 4 shot group at 200 yards that measure 1.25". I'd call that a solid PG round.

    Sorry I don't have loads for you for their rounds .375. I would not hesitate to email CEB, they will gladly provide you load data. Near as I can tell they just use QuickLoad to do this, so per their advice I would indeed start low and work up. If it were me, I'd be looking for loads using Varget or 4350 (IMR or Hodgdon).

    I don't have hunting experience with these yet, but I've read very positive reports about the DG calibers.
     

  4. PaulT

    PaulT AH Elite

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    I have been very fortunate in having close contact with those involved in developing and testing these projectiles over a number of years. As a result of this testing, I have witnessed (100+) of these projectiles employed in use on buffalo (Asiatic), and other heavy bovines, in the field and have been extremely impressed with the results, so much so that I am now using the brass C.E.B Safari Raptor exclusively in my back-up rifles, including my double. With regards to fouling, I've found they leave little to no fouling, IN MY BARRELS (Pacnor's), your mileage may vary, and very easy to maintain. They prove to be amongst the most accurate large caliber projectiles that I've fired in some of my rifles and most importantly I find the terminal performance of these projectiles to be second to none. Straight-line, and deep, penetration is boringly monotonous with these slugs. Due to the structural integrity and performance I've found that traditional bullet weights for caliber (e.g 500gn .458 etc) are not required. These bullets love velocity, and performance is enhanced with a little more speed than you would, or could, apply to a "standard" projectile. in .458 Lott the 450gn slugs are the go. In .375 I'd be looking for a slightly lighter bullet than 300gn, perhaps 250gn. I believe that in both 9.3 AND .375 that there is a specific "large game" version ( three petal as opposed to the standard 6 petal version) if you decide to employ "smaller" calibers to large tasks such as buffalo hunting. If you would like any further or more specific information in the use of or handloading these projectiles please feel free to contact me direct for information @ e-mail; ssahuntinfo@optusnet.com.au Good luck with them and good hunting, Paul.
     

  5. zephyr

    zephyr AH Enthusiast

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    PaulT,
    I too have had great success with CEB's both Solids and Safari Raptors in my Bolt guns and Doubles. I do have a question concerning Raptors and my up and coming Buff Cull hunt in your NT. I will be taking a 458 Lott and am considering the 420gr Raptors. My past success' with Raptors on large bovine, Cape Buffaloe have been with broadside shots and frontal shots, my concern with the Raptor is if I have to drive a bullet from hip to shoulder I fear the blades will separate in the hip muscle leaving me with the solid base transversing the rest of the body. I am thinking that in a case like that I would be better served with a Barnes TSX or a premium Soft.
    Your thought s would be greatly appreciated
     

  6. PaulT

    PaulT AH Elite

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    Zephyr, with the capacity of the Lott I personally would prefer a 450gn Raptor over the lighter 420gn, which I think is better in a Winny mag.

    As you have already worked out you cannot possibly drive these bullets too fast.
    The more velocity you give them the deeper they penetrate.
    You should be able to get close to 2500fps with that bullet in good loads.
    With that bullet out of that cartridge you have one heck of a hammer to go and dong some buffalo with !!!

    You are correct in assuming that most of the petals will shear relatively close to the point of , but if that point of impact happens to be anywhere near the spine that buff is going down.
    When driving a rear raker you need to "see" your animal in 3 D and drive your shot to the point leading to the lungs, heart or off-side shoulder. The remaining shank will at very least make it to the chest cavity, and almost certainly beyond that.

    If it is running directly away rear raker shoot for the root of the tail, and that buff is going down !
    If it is slightly quartering and running away aim for the "inside" of the off-side shoulder, same results.

    Last year I had a hunter hit a bull facing 3/4 on on the near side just off the front shoulder with a 370gn Raptor in 416.
    The impact drove the bull's head up in the air and tipped him over head over ass, quite spectacular.
    The remaining shank exited just in front of the rear opposite hip.

    I have now taken 17 odd buffalo bulls and 6 wild Oxen, under all circumstances and from all angles with my .50 cal wildcat 450gn Raptor and have only recovered one shank.

    As good as they are, and believe me I LOVE the Barnes T.S.X, you will not get better performance or penetration than the Raptor and as far as conventional lead based bullets, nothing comes close.

    Hope that was some reassurance.
    Feel free to contact me personally for more info if you so wish; ssahuntinfo@optusnet.com.au

    Hope you have a super successful hunt and enjoyable stay in our wonderful country.

    Paul.
     
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  7. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Cutting Edge has several lines. I have been experimenting a little, and asking too many questions. But, here is some info that I found helpful about a couple of the bullets they make:

    "The Raptors work completely different but equally as well especially on very tough plains game. We like to think of a Raptor having blades verses petals on the Maximus. The blades shear off and remain flat and not curled like the petals on an MTH or Maximus. That causes them to radiate out away from the main would channel in a star pattern causing a massive amount of trauma in a larger area internally but do not penetrate as deep. Typically on large animals and using either a brass or copper .308 145-150gr Raptor you can expect the blades to pass through the first lung and almost through the second lung in a Kudu size animal and the base will pass through producing a small exit hole. With the Maximus the petals will remain closer to the main would channel but making it much larger than a traditional expanding bullet and will produce a much larger exit hole in the same size animal.


    Both produce a lot of trauma but in my opinion the lighter Raptor bullet still produce the most trauma of any bullet on the market including the Maximus. The advantage of the Maximus is they are heavier like most people “think” they need to kill an animal effectively and due to them being one piece instead of two they are a lot more economical. Both are very high trauma producing bullets in their own way and you cannot make a bad choice."
     

  8. RTaylor

    RTaylor AH Member

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    I've gone to the CEB exclusively in my big bores for hunting dangerous game. The Raptor is absolutely devastating on buffalo and giraffe.
    I, like PaulT, know the guys that developed these bullets and the thousands of rounds that were tested before they settled on the bullet design. You won't find a bullet that will give you straight line penetration like the CEB will.
    Matt85, you might also look at the Raptor in 230 grain for the .375. I used it in Zimbabwe in '17 on everything I shot, including the leopard in my avatar, and the devastation inside the animal is impressive, while the shank keeps on course and exits at most reasonable distances. In my .375, the 230 at 100 yards will put 5 shots in less than .6" so they are accurate and deadly. I haven't tried the 300 gr but have used the 270 Raptor on plains game and it is also an accurate, deadly bullet. Impala at 340 yards, down within 15 yards.
     

  9. BobT

    BobT AH Enthusiast

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    Matt,
    I have a pretty good load for the 300 grain .375 solids, I'll have to look at my notes. I do remember an interesting thing happening, I had velocity decrease as powder charge was increased so I ended up using a starting load. I do have a couple that were recovered from my buffalo, one of them could be loaded and fired again, the other, not so much.
     

  10. Albert GRANT

    Albert GRANT AH Fanatic

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    Not sure if you are aware of it, but if these are drive band bullets, as it sounds from your description, they load differently than your standard bullets. Do not use load data for regular bullets. You can get start loads using the low end data from Barnes and similar, but as was suggested, getting load data from the manufacturer is highly reccommended. The pressures are totally different with drive band bullets and it is claimed that accuracy is not affected by speed with these, if you have accuracy issues, change the seating depth until you get the desired accuracy.
     

  11. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    20190908_121549.jpg

    My first trial of CEB 149gr(with tip) ESP Raptors, 308 Norma starting load 70gr H4831 at about 2966 fps. Three shots, consistency was under 100 fps. I don't think I have to play with these much at all!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2019
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  12. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Actually, more testing IS needed. This starting load was 5 shots. One did not register on the magnetospeed chronograph. The other four were
    2931
    2945
    2950
    3036

    That last one was markedly faster. I wonder why?

    Fyi, I changed the point of aim for three shots creating that group above.

    I want to speed it up and see if I can sort the variance out.
     

  13. Inline6

    Inline6 AH Veteran

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    Condition of brass? How long between shots? What kind of scale do you use for the powder? Was the ammo in the sun cooking?

    Those are thoughts that come to my mind.
     
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  14. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    I’m looking into CEB myself and I live 1.5 hours from them. Hope to pay them a visit I actually know the owner he was my boss in a machine shop I worked in in the 90’s he was into long range shooting then. I like the bore rider bullets but I’m unsure of the brass bullets myself.
    Shawn
     

  15. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    RCBS Chargemaster. Norma brass 2x fired. Cool day and not in the sun. I checked my dies because I try to set back the shoulder 0.002 using the Larry Willis headspace gauge. Maybe the brass wasn't resized properly? I made an adjustment to give a bit more room. I am loading progressively larger charges to get to about 3250 ish.
     

  16. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I have read a lot of glowing reports with the larger bores. I hope it's the same with the 30 cal.
     

  17. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    I have been using GS Customs in my 375 Ruger and a 22-250 for a few years but they are currently not producing in USA right now. I have a small stash but not enough to not be looking around. I also have 50 GS Customs for my 404 Jeffery I’ll use them to get my sights tuned in but I don’t think I’ll have enough to hunt more than 1 year.
    So CEB may be my go to for.
    Shawn
     

  18. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    They do a copper version too, if you prefer. I spoke to them a lot. Sounds like the brass breaks up more dynamically than the copper. But the copper creates a larger wound channel. They have options anyways.
     

  19. Inline6

    Inline6 AH Veteran

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    If the rounds stay in the chamber they will be faster due to heating up. My guess is the last shot being way faster than the rest.

    If it chambers without resistance you are probably good.

    If you wait 5 minutes between shots you will have a better picture of performance IMHO. If a round sits and cooks in a hot chamber it will be faster. That has been my experience.
     
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