Curious why cape buffalo have the same minimum caliber requirement as Rhino, Hippo and Elephant?

[B0MBOY]

I've always wondered why the .375 cal minimum requirement applied to Cape Buffalo in the same way it does to the larger dangerous game ie Hippo, Rhino and Elephant.

Now, I have never hunted Africa and have no direct experience with these game species. I know that Cape Buffalo are known for their toughness, their "meanness" and I've seen videos where they soak up a LOT of lead.

But from an anatomical perspective they are a ~1,600lb Buffalo vs a 3,000lb+ Hippo, 5,000lbs+ Rhino or a 15,000lb+ bull elephant.

They just don't seem to be in the same weight class compared to other megafauna.

Thinking of local examples at home, North Americans hunt the North American Bison which grows larger than Cape Buffalo (to to 2,700lbs) with 30cals like 308, 30-06, 300 WinMag etc.

It sounds like the Australians hunt their Water Buffalo (2,000lbs) with 338's as well but recommend a 375.

So a few questions:
1. Do you believe the caliber restrictions for Cape Buffalo should be the same as the larger African game? i.e. 375.
2. Do you think there should be an exception for using 338's, 35's etc. on Cape buffalo given their effectiveness on other buffalo species around the world?
3. Do you think the 375 minimum is actually too low for hippo, rhino or elephant?

I'm asking these questions as I sit here planning my Bison hunt where I intend to bring my 338WinMag with 250gr partitions.

I haven’t hunted in Africa either, but Ive done a hell of a lot of research, and if you watch a large volume of youtube videos of animals killed with x caliber you get an idea pretty quickly for how animals shot by x caliber react.

1) .375 is the minimum diameter. For the bigger animals, especially elephant, you generally want more than minimum. Craig bodkin does a great video explaining shot placement on elephants and explaining exactly how much bone you’re shooting through to kill one. It’s a lot.

2) I think for lions and leopards you could make a case for smaller calibers…. Up until they charge you. There was a man eating tiger hunting specialist on here and his opinion was 12 guage buckshot was the way to go for big cats.

All that said I don’t think 338 win mag or 35 whelen are in the same class as 375 h&h. The only 338 that i believe should get an exception is .338 lapua because it’s very very close performance to 375 h&h.

3) too low for elephant. I’ve seen a plenty of videos of hippo kills with 375 h&h.

 

[R3DD Prince]

I've always wondered why the .375 cal minimum requirement applied to Cape Buffalo in the same way it does to the larger dangerous game ie Hippo, Rhino and Elephant.

Now, I have never hunted Africa and have no direct experience with these game species. I know that Cape Buffalo are known for their toughness, their "meanness" and I've seen videos where they soak up a LOT of lead.

But from an anatomical perspective they are a ~1,600lb Buffalo vs a 3,000lb+ Hippo, 5,000lbs+ Rhino or a 15,000lb+ bull elephant.

They just don't seem to be in the same weight class compared to other megafauna.

Thinking of local examples at home, North Americans hunt the North American Bison which grows larger than Cape Buffalo (to to 2,700lbs) with 30cals like 308, 30-06, 300 WinMag etc.

It sounds like the Australians hunt their Water Buffalo (2,000lbs) with 338's as well but recommend a 375.

So a few questions:
1. Do you believe the caliber restrictions for Cape Buffalo should be the same as the larger African game? i.e. 375.
2. Do you think there should be an exception for using 338's, 35's etc. on Cape buffalo given their effectiveness on other buffalo species around the world?
3. Do you think the 375 minimum is actually too low for hippo, rhino or elephant?

I'm asking these questions as I sit here planning my Bison hunt where I intend to bring my 338WinMag with 250gr partitions.

A good shot from a 30-06 will drop a bison spot on. A good shot with the same 180 Soft point will piss off a Buffalo. They are known to take 6+ good heart lung shots and keep running for 30 seconds to a minute maybe longer. In that time frame they can cover 200- 600 yards while bleeding and fighting everything! They are know to circle back and end whatever hurt them. They might bring some buddies for back up as well. BLACK DEATH FOR A REASON!

 

[DLSJR]

A good shot from a 30-06 will drop a bison spot on. A good shot with the same 180 Soft point will piss off a Buffalo. They are known to take 6+ good heart lung shots and keep running for 30 seconds to a minute maybe longer. In that time frame they can cover 200- 600 yards while bleeding and fighting everything! They are know to circle back and end whatever hurt them. They might bring some buddies for back up as well. BLACK DEATH FOR A REASON!

Have you ever actually shot a Cape Buffalo? Based on your comments, I’m curious.

 

[Slickshooter]

Personally I killed two buffalo and a hippo with a 416 Rigby and am glad I had that over a 375.

 

[Newboomer]

Personally I killed two buffalo and a hippo with a 416 Rigby and am glad I had that over a 375.

I took mine, one of two old dagga boys, head on with a 375 and Barnes 350gTSX at about 30 yds. He ran about 75 yds and we found him dead, not even a death bellow. The skinners said the slug went clear through stem to stern and was never recovered.
Now to be honest he(they) could have charged but instead turned and ran which was a good thing.

 

[Muskox]

We have done a lot of bison hunts. Every single one felled with a 30-06.

Could you do the same with a Cape buffalo, or water buffalo... probably.

I don't think a 30-06 is correct for bison, but the 375 is more correct for Africa.

I have been using a 10,3x68 RWS, similar cartridge to the 416 Taylor or 411 KDF on European game. I think it would be fine on all game world wide with the Woodleighs.

I have zero experience on dangerous game in Africa.

 

[Tanner Lee]

We have a family friend who lived in Moz for many years and did some hunting while there. He only had a 30-06 and he took a buffalo with one. So it can do the job with good shot placement and a good bullet. I might be wrong but I thought Roosevelt took some buffalo with 30-06 on his safari.

Though in my lived experience I would prefer a larger caliber with some more stopping power. I have seen animals absorb good shots from smaller rounds to never be seen again. I don’t want to risk it with DG.

 

[45-70guy]

I've always wondered why the .375 cal minimum requirement applied to Cape Buffalo in the same way it does to the larger dangerous game ie Hippo, Rhino and Elephant.

Now, I have never hunted Africa and have no direct experience with these game species. I know that Cape Buffalo are known for their toughness, their "meanness" and I've seen videos where they soak up a LOT of lead.

But from an anatomical perspective they are a ~1,600lb Buffalo vs a 3,000lb+ Hippo, 5,000lbs+ Rhino or a 15,000lb+ bull elephant.

They just don't seem to be in the same weight class compared to other megafauna.

Thinking of local examples at home, North Americans hunt the North American Bison which grows larger than Cape Buffalo (to to 2,700lbs) with 30cals like 308, 30-06, 300 WinMag etc.

It sounds like the Australians hunt their Water Buffalo (2,000lbs) with 338's as well but recommend a 375.

So a few questions:
1. Do you believe the caliber restrictions for Cape Buffalo should be the same as the larger African game? i.e. 375.
2. Do you think there should be an exception for using 338's, 35's etc. on Cape buffalo given their effectiveness on other buffalo species around the world?
3. Do you think the 375 minimum is actually too low for hippo, rhino or elephant?

I'm asking these questions as I sit here planning my Bison hunt where I intend to bring my 338WinMag with 250gr partitions.

I shot my bison with a 45-70 with a 18” barrel and a 405g hard cast moving 1600 fps at the muzzle.
A 338 win mag is more than plenty MORE than plenty

 

[sgt_zim]

A good shot from a 30-06 will drop a bison spot on. A good shot with the same 180 Soft point will piss off a Buffalo. They are known to take 6+ good heart lung shots and keep running for 30 seconds to a minute maybe longer. In that time frame they can cover 200- 600 yards while bleeding and fighting everything! They are know to circle back and end whatever hurt them. They might bring some buddies for back up as well. BLACK DEATH FOR A REASON!

American bison have an anatomical quirk - a bullet into 1 lung will cause a double pneumothorax, 100% fatal. A bullet only into 1 lung on a cape buffalo leaves the other one intact.

You don't need deep penetration into a bison to inflict a mortal wound, it only needs to penetrate deeply enough for a single lung, assuming you missed the heart.

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

I watched an African hunting video (cape buffalo)the other day on YouTube. I believe it was from Lex Strauss Safaris. The old boy was using a 358 STA. I know that's a pretty big cartridge. But I wondered about the .375 issue. 358 STA has taken a lot of North American big game. Just saying.

 

[sgt_zim]

I've always wondered why the .375 cal minimum requirement applied to Cape Buffalo in the same way it does to the larger dangerous game ie Hippo, Rhino and Elephant.

Now, I have never hunted Africa and have no direct experience with these game species. I know that Cape Buffalo are known for their toughness, their "meanness" and I've seen videos where they soak up a LOT of lead.

But from an anatomical perspective they are a ~1,600lb Buffalo vs a 3,000lb+ Hippo, 5,000lbs+ Rhino or a 15,000lb+ bull elephant.

They just don't seem to be in the same weight class compared to other megafauna.

Thinking of local examples at home, North Americans hunt the North American Bison which grows larger than Cape Buffalo (to to 2,700lbs) with 30cals like 308, 30-06, 300 WinMag etc.

It sounds like the Australians hunt their Water Buffalo (2,000lbs) with 338's as well but recommend a 375.

So a few questions:
1. Do you believe the caliber restrictions for Cape Buffalo should be the same as the larger African game? i.e. 375.
2. Do you think there should be an exception for using 338's, 35's etc. on Cape buffalo given their effectiveness on other buffalo species around the world?
3. Do you think the 375 minimum is actually too low for hippo, rhino or elephant?

I'm asking these questions as I sit here planning my Bison hunt where I intend to bring my 338WinMag with 250gr partitions.

Because after the Treaty of Versailles with most African colonies falling under control of Britain, that's what they decided the minimum would be. If there had been a Treaty of Munich or Berlin, 9.3x62 would've been the minimum.

Refer to my answer just above this one - bison just don't need as much killin' as cape buffalo.

All else being relatively equal, mass always wins the penetration contest. A 275 or 300 gr .338 or .358 bullet would be as effective as a 286 gr or 300 gr from 9.3 or 375. But then outfitters have to futz with hunters coming over with 225 or 250 gr.

286 and 300 are the standard for those cartridges, 275 or 300 just aren't for 358 and 338.

Americans are in love with speed, but heavy and slower has proven effective on Africa's iconic megafauna.

1. yes, or even 9.3. I suspect even where not legal, most outfitters would turn a blind eye to a hunter with a 9.3x62 or 9.3x74.
2. no, it's just too difficult to police for proper bullet weights - heavier than 250 gr
3. i haven't hunted those yet, only cape buffalo. based on field reports, 375 and 9.3 are adequate. 286 gr and 300 gr solids are easily obtained for 9.3 and 375. What does that look like for 358 and 338? it's such a niche market, I don't imagine any manufacturers rushing in to produce solids in appropriate weights for anything under 366.

But as far as hippo, most of them are hunted in water as bait for lions. You don't need a 40 cal, nor even 375, to bust a hippo's grape. Dry land hunting is an entirely different ball of wax.

 

[double rifle newbie]

View attachment 569617
That was with a .416 and a center punch on the heart. That buff went at least 100 yards and was pissed off every step of the way.

another perfect example of as long as there is oxygen in the brain they keep going. low heartbeat rate, large adrenal gland, and extreme grumpiness make this one of the most dangerous animals in the world to hunt. mbogo and griz are at the top of the dangerous game list in my humble opinion.

 

[mark-hunter]

Is there a minimum caliber for croc and hypo? (Since Hypo was mentioned)

 

[Huvius]

Is there a minimum caliber for croc and hypo? (Since Hypo was mentioned)

Hypo?
Of course... but the animal is hypothetical...as nobody has ever actually shot one...

Jokes aside, the 375 has always seemed like a bridge cartridge to me - meaning, a bridge between the regular medium game cartridges and the true big bore DG cartridges.
Adequate for Buffalo and up, yeah, maybe.
Ideal for Buffalo and up? Not at all.
Ideal for big Eland and the non dangerous bovines, moose and bear? Seems like it.

Also, I hear talk about how the usual client can take the recoil of the 375 so the initial shot is more likely to be accurate than it would be if they were using something bigger and more powerful.
I can tell you, the two WORST recoiling rifles I've ever shot were a 375H&H Ruger No.1 and a 375 Weatherby Magnum so I'm not ready to subscribe to that point of view!

 

[mark-hunter]

Also, I hear talk about how the usual client can take the recoil of the 375 so the initial shot is more likely to be accurate than it would be if they were using something bigger and more powerful.

In every day hunting world, where the deer and the hog are most common prey, the popular belief is that 30 - 06 is caliber with maximum recoil that average person can tolerate.

Cross the pond over to Africa, and then the experts say the same for 375 H&H, maximum tolerable recoil for average person?



These two statements do not match. There must be a flaw in philosophy. Then who are the people who shoot bigger guns?!

Okey, I admit, I read a lot, and based on theory sometimes I worry too much.

I have 375, but my last hunt was on ele in Zim 2025, and I used camp gun in 416.

I was really worried before the hunt, if I will be able to handle the recoil, get a flinch first day when zeroing the rifle, and screw up elephant hunt.

On the end, it was all fine. Rifle and me performed well and I did not yet find my recoil threshold. The problems with recoil are more complex then just putting it and blaming it on caliber.

 

[grand veneur]

Recoil begins to pose some problems with rifles caliber 45 and at muzzle velocities of about 2400 fps. Anyone who handle a rifle caliber 375 will have no trouble handling one caliber 416. In most cases, you don't need more, although for elephant hunting, a little more power might not be a bad idea. Not long ago, I also shot an elephant using a borrowed rifle caliber 416 Ruger. For the few other elephants I had previously shot, I used the cartridges 460 Weatherby Magnum or 500 Schüler. The cartridge 416 Ruger did the job, but the game wardens considered the caliber 416 to be a minimum for elephant hunting, and themselves were all equipped with rifles caliber 458 or larger, for backup, but above all for culling shots.

 

[DAVE LANGERMAN Safaris]

Moz does indeed have minimums. They have a definitive set of game laws.

I have used a .375 exclusively on buffalo with great success. Any second shots were purely insurance shots. But let's say a buffalo is inbound with the intent to do serious harm. I would argue a .375 is just as likely to terminate the excitement as a .416 class rifle. Neither bullet in the chest is probably going to stop or divert a charge at close range. A 300 or 400 gr bullet going up the snout will. I simply believe most people are likely to put that bullet into such a small target with a .375 than a forty something.

I will agree that a .458 Lott and the 500's do have the potential to turn a charge, but even with those, I would be trying to get 500 grs of whatever into the control center under the boss.

So, if I have a choice between a .375, a forty, or a .500, I'll gladly opt for the .375 and its flexibility and ease of carry.

Back to the OP's original question, I am certain that a 250 gr bullet of the proper construction from a .338 would be absolutely lethal on cape buffalo. After all, the 318 WR was a favorite for buffalo (and rhino and elephant and everything else) for the better part of two generations before and between the wars. That said, a .375 is a very sensible minimum.

Should you wish to try something smaller, book your hunt in Mozambique where there is no minimum at all.

 

[Red Leg]

Moz does indeed have minimums. They have a definitive set of game laws.

Dave, I certainly won't argue with you, but is this relatively new. or have people simply been violating the requirement? Numerous articles and videos have been made over the last couple of decades where hunters took period rifles to Mozambique to hunt buffalo because they could not be used elsewhere.

For instance, in October 2011 a well known collector of rifles used by famous hunters, Bill Jones, took Frederick Courtney Selous’s Holland & Holland falling-block single-shot rifle in 6.5×53R to the Delta in Mozambique. He was accompanied by Craig Boddington and PH Craig Hamman. Jones used it, firing I believe a 155gr solid, to take a Cape buffalo in Mozambique’s Zambezi Delta swamps with a 70 yard, one-shot kill.

The hunt was filmed and released on a DVD (which I own) called "Historic Rifles: The Long Journey." Boddington also wrote about it in one of his gazillion articles.

I hasten to add, this is not an endorsement of such a stunt - my minimum is a 300 gr .375 A Frame.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

375 is adequate for Cape Buffalo, barely. I shot a Wildebeest from 160y with a 375 a few years ago. It was a frontal shot and the 300g TSX penetrated over 3ft. A 2nd shot passed thru the beast and a final finisher lodged under the hide on the opposite side. The 1st shot was fatal but WB are tenacious thus the follow-ups. I shot a Cape Buffalo last year with my 375HH. Again with 300g TSX. Range was closer at about 100ish yards. Broadside shot, well placed. Bull ran. My MO is if a wounded animal is still on its feet, keep shooting. Took total of 4 shots to put it down and all but one were well placed. None passed thru the beast. None penetrated much more than 24" or so. Thick hide and tough flesh and bone. They are tough. Honestly, I really wish I had brought a larger rifle for that one. A 416 Rig or 458wm, etc would not have been too much.

I have a 338wm and dropped a Nilgai in its tracks with it and would not feel undergunned with it against nearly any animal but it is not optimum for DG. I may use my 338 on Moose this fall if I do not go smaller. Moose will weigh as much as a Cape Buffalo but are not nearly as hard to kill. Double lung a Moose with a 30-06 and he will walk off and die in 20-30sec.

Double lung a Cape Buffalo or blow a quarter sized hole in his heart with your rifle and he will die, eventually. But... In the 30-40 seconds before blood loss causes him to topple over, he is hardwired to run. Away if possible but if not, he will attack you and kill you if he can. He is dead but has not yet accepted his fate. That is why a minimum caliber is necessary. You want him to bleed out faster and even a 45cal might not be fast enough in some cases. Charges may only occur once in ten cases or less but when they do, your rifle cannot be too large. Buffalo are prickly. They will run if they sense your presence but if you persist and bump them again, they might run. Piss them off and they will come for you. They are tenacious.

 

[AZDAVE]

@mark-hunter The What is acceptable recoil 06 vs 375. I have often said that most folks can be taught to shoot up to a 375 H&H. Some is technique some is not shooting it off the bench etc. But there needs to be a desire on the shooters part to want/need it.

However i will also put in my .02 worth that several generations in the western world have been babied growing up vs the kids in africa and other parts of the world. And just don't have the desire to learn if they percieve "It hurts'

Kinda like watching soccer vs rugby The rugby player gets ran over and gets up bleeding and shake the other player hand and says "Good hit mate!" the soccer player gets bumped and lays on the ground rolling around trying to win an acting oscar.

i realize every person had a physical recoil tolerance, but the % that have a true physical reason that more than a 06 is to much in smaller that the mental it hurts group. In my non politically correct self in my youth we called whip or sissy when the shoe fit.