CBL Banned??

[Russ16]

I was being a smart ass. Trying to prove your point in a sarcastic way.

I just find the whole thread to be the theater of the absurd.

Also, everyone is acting like the movie pretty woman doesnt exist.

I never saw Pretty Woman so I’m not sure how it’s relevant.

 

[Tbitty]

I never saw Pretty Woman so I’m not sure how it’s relevant.

You've made a big mistake. Huge.

...

Sorry, I know this doesnt really answer your post, but it's how my mind works and entertains me.

 

[SCHUNTER73]

You've made a big mistake. Huge.

...

Sorry, I know this doesnt really answer your post, but it's how my mind works and entertains me.

I see what you did there. Great reference.

 

[coreydb]

There was talk about it being banned soon. Was sure it the animal rights have made progress.
https://share.google/zZEu7b2sfDPNgeFEp

Most people can’t afford a 100k lion hunt so this is what we can afford. You can leave your judgements at the door. Hunters against Hunters love it.

Crap....I know this is a dated string, but no lions are exportable to the States

 

[Russ16]

Crap....I know this is a dated string, but no lions are exportable to the States

No CBL lions right? I think some wild lions are importable to the US.

 

[Rare Breed]

Only wild lions are exportable to the US

 

[Russ16]

Only wild lions are exportable to the US

That’s what I thought.

 

[Cucuy]

So wait, there are hookers associated with CBLs? That changes everything.

 

[318AE]

So, I‘m genuinely curious. It seems like the preponderance of the pro CBL argument is based on “it’s legal” (in South Africa). Are you supportive of the South Africa Expropriation Act, which allows seizure of land without compensation? It’s also legal. Are you supportive of that law if it takes your favorite RSA operator’s game farm without compensation? Are you supportive of the highly restrictive gun laws they have there?

 

[DaddyFlip]

So, I‘m genuinely curious. It seems like the preponderance of the pro CBL argument is based on “it’s legal” (in South Africa). Are you supportive of the South Africa Expropriation Act, which allows seizure of land without compensation? It’s also legal. Are you supportive of that law if it takes your favorite RSA operator’s game farm without compensation? Are you supportive of the highly restrictive gun laws they have there?

One does not have to participate in or endorse everything that is legal just because they participate in or endorse some things that are legal. Smoking weed is legal in some jurisdictions. Some people in those jurisdictions disagree with the legality and abhor the practice. Maybe they like to drink liquor, which is legal, but there are some people who abstain for various personal reasons or abhor alcohol. Gambling is legal; some love it, others hate it. And on and on.

 

[Russ16]

One does not have to participate in or endorse everything that is legal just because they participate in or endorse some things that are legal. Smoking weed is legal in some jurisdictions. Some people in those jurisdictions disagree with the legality and abhor the practice. Maybe they like to drink liquor, which is legal, but there are some people who abstain for various personal reasons or abhor alcohol. Gambling is legal; some love it, others hate it. And on and on.

Hunting is legal and some people abhor it as well. Your examples where things people on this forum would agree or identify with. Just want to point out that others would hate what we love and is legal.

 

[HankBuck]

So, I‘m genuinely curious. It seems like the preponderance of the pro CBL argument is based on “it’s legal” (in South Africa). Are you supportive of the South Africa Expropriation Act, which allows seizure of land without compensation? It’s also legal. Are you supportive of that law if it takes your favorite RSA operator’s game farm without compensation? Are you supportive of the highly restrictive gun laws they have there?

@318AE - I find your use of the words “genuine & curious” (of which you are neither) reminiscent of my former job and many meetings I attended - especially when doing a presentation and a question was posed by a Board Member or our CEO that started with “I’m Curious” (or sometimes “I’m confused”) I knew I was about to get ‘F-cked’. Nobody ever starts a question with “I’m Curious” unless they are about to SLAM You — and if they throw the word “genuinely” in front of it —- get ready to duck !
But I guess if the person was completely honest and started their question with what they really thought ie: “I completely disagree with you, you’re stupid, and an ass-ole….” People’s feelings would be hurt. It’s similar to saying something completely nasty and critical of someone and following the remark with “No offense”.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Take the fence down, and this argument is non existent.

I am not sure what you mean but one thing I've learned? There is always a fence somewhere...

With limited hunting opportunities as it is, you have to take what you can get. Whether it's 100k acres fenced, or 100 acres fenced, somewhere at some point is a no-go line. It could be a fence, it could be a property line, etc.

The difference being whether or not the animal is free to cross it.

I've seen hog hunts in PA were guys are posing with dead meat hogs and the fence is right behind them. I'm not a fan of it but once we start putting limits on things and moving them closer? It gives the anti's ammo to fire on us.

 

[dchum]

I am not sure what you mean but one thing I've learned? There is always a fence somewhere...

With limited hunting opportunities as it is, you have to take what you can get. Whether it's 100k acres fenced, or 100 acres fenced, somewhere at some point is a no-go line. It could be a fence, it could be a property line, etc.

The difference being whether or not the animal is free to cross it.

I've seen hog hunts in PA were guys are posing with dead meat hogs and the fence is right behind them. I'm not a fan of it but once we start putting limits on things and moving them closer? It gives the anti's ammo to fire on us.

Huh? Just because you have only hunted inside a HF in Africa does not mean there are limited opportunities. "You have to take what you can get"? what does that even mean. Sorry im just not sure of the points you are trying to make?

 

[HookMeUpII]

Huh? Just because you have only hunted inside a HF in Africa does not mean there are limited opportunities. "You have to take what you can get"? what does that even mean. Sorry im just not sure of the points you are trying to make?

I mean, at some point you have to stop somewhere in pursuit of an animal. I've never hunted free-range Africa (I want to badly) but I do know that many of those areas are very strictly enforced quotas. They need to be but with that comes challenges. HF areas vary in size. Some have self-sustaining populations. There are so many variables.

What I am saying is every area has limits to some point.

I know very little about CBL other than I would never do it and they behave much different than true wild ones.

The point goes back to that if we don't unite we will all fall at some point. CBL is like tower shooting here. I have no idea how someone finds enjoyment from shooting farm raised game birds released all at once out of a tower. But once you ban that...it cracks the door. Then it becomes "Well, maybe we should stop pheasant stocking?" or "Maybe we should ban high fence hunting all together?"

 

[Tundra Tiger]

There is a local non-migratory caribou herd where I live, on the Nushagak Peninsula, in the SE corner of Togiak National Wildlife Refuge. I work for the Refuge; it encompasses just shy of 5 million acres. The area occupied by the caribou is maybe 450,000 acres. Because it is a peninsula, three sides - 'fences' - are formed by Bristol Bay.

I hunt caribou there, and they can be amongst the most skittish animals I have ever hunted. I agree with @HookMeUpII - there's always a fence somewhere.

 

[RLD]

One of the broader questions on this type of issue is when should the state step in to ban something.

I lean away from state interference on most things. I think the state should have a very good reason to restrict someone's liberty via the power of legislation.

There are all sorts of things I don't think people should do, and would rather they not do, and will always try to convince people not to do that I don't think the state should step in to deal with.

As one commentator once put it "If you don't like gay marriage don't marry a gay person."

I feel the same way about CBL. I have no interest in doing it, I would try to convince others not to do it, but I don't see the legitimate state interest in banning it. The ban would be politically motivated, not motivated by good conservation policy and frankly I think the government should keep their nose out of it.

Just because something is unethical does not mean it should be illegal, and just because something is legal does not make it ethical.

 

[375Fox]

There is a local non-migratory caribou herd where I live, on the Nushagak Peninsula, in the SE corner of Togiak National Wildlife Refuge. I work for the Refuge; it encompasses just shy of 5 million acres. The area occupied by the caribou is maybe 450,000 acres. Because it is a peninsula, three sides - 'fences' - are formed by Bristol Bay.

I hunt caribou there, and they can be amongst the most skittish animals I have ever hunted. I agree with @HookMeUpII - there's always a fence somewhere.

I get really tired of these fencing “examples” to justify South African practices when they aren’t remotely comparable. The caribou live a completely natural existence inside those boundaries. I’m assuming those boundaries are established because it’s the best habitat for them. A CBL lion is trucked to a fenced farm choose by farmer or outfitter just because the soil is best for tracking for a successful hunt. The fence holds the lion in until the hunter arrives. No one can tell you a lie about those caribou if you hunt one. It was born there, escaped predators, survived winters before your hunt. The outfitter can tell whatever lie about a CBL lion once it’s stocked. A lion stocked 2 days before or two months before looks the same. It looks the same whether they fed it every day waiting on you to arrive or told you it made its own kills. It looks the same whether it was marketed as put and take or a rogue lion from Botswana. Before the CBL price became cheap these were very different arguments. I’m constantly suprised how many hunters want to accept and justify a dishonest practice at the right price.

 

[Huvius]

No one actually cares about the lions, the conditions they are raised and how they are killed.

Maybe not "no one" but a large majority don't.
I said before that if one separates CBL from free range hunting, and recognizes it for what it is, there is no real argument because they aren't really the same thing.
I relate CBL to any other type of livestock farming.
Enjoy that Bison steak? Farmed
Enjoy your caviar? Farmed
How about that Salmon, shrimp, oysters, Pâté? Farmed, farmed, farmed and farmed...

CBL are farmed for a purpose just as any of the above are and that purpose isn't to replicate a week long stalking safari.

If your Single buddy goes out Friday Night and Sunday tells you “I picked up a gorgeous blond at a bar and had great sex with her all weekend”….but leaves out She-was-a-Hooker, wouldn’t that be relevant?

It is, and it holds some of the same exhilaration and risk that picking up a fair chase woman at the bar does. Just more certain...
The correlation of CBL to prostitution is so funny and in a way quite appropriate.
The CBL (prostitute) is a way to get your trophy without the investment of time and resources that the free range option requires.

 

[HookMeUpII]

The correlation of CBL to prostitution is so funny and in a way quite appropriate.
The CBL (prostitute) is a way to get your trophy without the investment of time and resources that the free range option requires.

I hate to admit it but it's a good comparison.

I make this comment as nonjudgmentally as possible. How is shooting a CBL much different than a pen raised Cape Buffalo? Tons of buffalo are shot in RSA. Some of them may have just been dropped off the truck into the preserve. I've seen posts on here where guys post a pic standing outside the fenced pen and the next pic is with a dead cape buffalo.

I have no desire to shoot either under those circumstances but banning CBL may then lead to banning buffalo, sable, roan, etc. Those are all heavily put and take animals in RSA.

The slope is very slippery. Money is the deciding factor on multiple fronts here.