Bullet suggestion for heart / lung shot on Elephant ?

[Travis2282]

 

[Travis2282]

Just read it on the website. Sounds interesting!

 

[bimbo]

Could be considered illegal?Sure !For the same reason the great tungsten solid of Speer brand no longer producted...metal piercing are not allowed in Italy too.

 

[Beck]

Any thoughts on Heart / Lung shots on Ele wit a 470NE & 404 Jeff?

I'm planning a father & son ele hunt.
On previous occasions the vegetation lent plenty opportunity for heart / lung shots, but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only...a few hairy moments were had.
I have since upgraded to a .470 NE, the Oldman carried his 9.3x62 for DG, but required an upgrade too so had him his dream caliber, a custom 404J built so he can honestly "cut his own tail" this year

Load development for the 404 have to be done...we are still sourcing components which are pretty scarce here in sunny SA. Solid options are pretty common, but feedback and quality expanding bullets are pretty hard to find. Some shops stock Hornady DGX & suggest it as a quality product Thanks to this forum I know better

Would it be considered foolish using good quality expanding bullets such as Barnes or Swift for heart / lung shots on Ele for the two calibers ? or should I rather stick with solids only?

I have used Barnes TSX's on several buffalo hunts, and one hippo hunt with a lot of luck - they have performed perfectly, but I have never hunted elephant - Interested to hear what someone with experience says.

 

[Beck]

Solids only for elephant.

Stay away from Hornady or Barnes X for elephant.

It is not that expanding bullets won't get the job done(I have shot elephant with Rhino expanding bullets, broadside just behind the shoulder) but rather that you cannot be sure what shot placement will be presented. A broadside shot turns very quickly into a full frontal head up shot with the elephant staring you down and then you have a problem when loaded with expanding bullets.

In solids the best performing ones are solid brass with a big Meplat(flat front). You cannot get better than the South African made Rhino solids, the Dzombo solids are just as good. Hydros seem to have a good reputation so far but I have never felt the need to change from the Rhinos I use as they have always performed with the utmost satisfaction.

One thing you need to consider is that depending on which double rifle you have bought your guarantee will be void if you use solid brass bullets as opposed to conventional jacketed solids. With Krieghoff your guarantee will be void and with VC not.

If the maker of your double does not guarantee the rifle if you use solid brass bullets your best choice would be either Woodleigh conventional solids or Stewarts solids if available.

And there is your answer!

 

[mark-hunter]

but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only..

I am planning ele hunt in the foreseeable future. Sorry for a bit moving away from subject. But did you get on the end, heart lung shot, or brain shot? (I have 375 H&H)
Thanks!

 

[mark-hunter]

but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only..

I am planning ele hunt in the foreseeable future. Sorry for a bit moving away from subject. But did you get on the end, heart lung shot, or brain shot? (I have 375 H&H)
Thanks!

 

[Beck]

Solids only for elephant.

Stay away from Hornady or Barnes X for elephant.

It is not that expanding bullets won't get the job done(I have shot elephant with Rhino expanding bullets, broadside just behind the shoulder) but rather that you cannot be sure what shot placement will be presented. A broadside shot turns very quickly into a full frontal head up shot with the elephant staring you down and then you have a problem when loaded with expanding bullets.

In solids the best performing ones are solid brass with a big Meplat(flat front). You cannot get better than the South African made Rhino solids, the Dzombo solids are just as good. Hydros seem to have a good reputation so far but I have never felt the need to change from the Rhinos I use as they have always performed with the utmost satisfaction.

One thing you need to consider is that depending on which double rifle you have bought your guarantee will be void if you use solid brass bullets as opposed to conventional jacketed solids. With Krieghoff your guarantee will be void and with VC not.

If the maker of your double does not guarantee the rifle if you use solid brass bullets your best choice would be either Woodleigh conventional solids or Stewarts solids if available.

What is your take on the North Fork Cup Point Solids, specifically the 600 grain .505 gibbs

 

[Fordy]

Gday jaws
Cup point solid are basically like the pills that mushroom as they have a reason to fail as they do which ok is @ a small % rate but one that in my opinion one needs no reason for allowing Murphy the slightest sniff to enter the world of hunting elephants

the only other part that’s not looked @ very often is the deflection part in Jess & the nose profile has shown differences in what can occur along with caliber , weight & speed all factors that have shown to affect penetration

Penertration being a extremely important key for elephant & ivw summed it up best here

Solids only for elephant.

Stay away from Hornady or Barnes X for elephant.

It is not that expanding bullets won't get the job done(I have shot elephant with Rhino expanding bullets, broadside just behind the shoulder) but rather that you cannot be sure what shot placement will be presented. A broadside shot turns very quickly into a full frontal head up shot with the elephant staring you down and then you have a problem when loaded with expanding bullets.

In solids the best performing ones are solid brass with a big Meplat(flat front). You cannot get better than the South African made Rhino solids, the Dzombo solids are just as good. Hydros seem to have a good reputation so far but I have never felt the need to change from the Rhinos I use as they have always performed with the utmost satisfaction.

One thing you need to consider is that depending on which double rifle you have bought your guarantee will be void if you use solid brass bullets as opposed to conventional jacketed solids. With Krieghoff your guarantee will be void and with VC not.

If the maker of your double does not guarantee the rifle if you use solid brass bullets your best choice would be either Woodleigh conventional solids or Stewarts solids if available.

wishing you the best
Cheers

 

[Racer00]

I took my tuskless with 400gr Woodleigh Hydros in 416 Rigby last December. Couldn't get close enough to feel comfortable for a brain shot, so took a lung/heart shot at 65 yds. As she whirled and ran, I hit her 3 more times with the same pill. Went about 80 yds and piled up, stone dead.
The Hydros shot same POI as 400gr A-Frames that I used for buffalo on the same hunt.
Definitely solids for ele.

 

[michael458]

True Deep Diving Solids ONLY for Elephant................ No Limited Penetration Solids such as the Hydro or any Cup Point such as the North Fork. The North Fork Solids and the Cutting Edge Solids are without doubt the best deep diving solids made. They were designed and tested from the ground up, several generations to get what they are today. They drive DEEP and they Drive Straight....... they will go through brush, and even trees and continue to the target, and they will go through that too.

Examples in .458 caliber

Further, in .458 caliber you don't need more than the 450 gr #13 Solids or North Fork..... I had a friend return from Africa last week, he took two elephants on this trip, 458 Lott, 450 Gr CEB #13 Solids at 2375 fps, fired 5 rounds total including insurance shots, all heart/lungs shoulder shots, all 5 rounds EXITED straight line penetration.......... One was down on the spot, the other elephant went 10 steps before going down. I have also taken elephant with the 458 B&M and 450 #13 Solid at 2200 fps, heart shot, elephant went 20 steps and down, bullet exited broadside shot............

Solids only, and proper designed solids only............. Do not opt for lesser or poor designs. There are rules for proper designed Solids.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Any thoughts on Heart / Lung shots on Ele wit a 470NE & 404 Jeff?

I'm planning a father & son ele hunt.
On previous occasions the vegetation lent plenty opportunity for heart / lung shots, but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only...a few hairy moments were had.
I have since upgraded to a .470 NE, the Oldman carried his 9.3x62 for DG, but required an upgrade too so had him his dream caliber, a custom 404J built so he can honestly "cut his own tail" this year

Load development for the 404 have to be done...we are still sourcing components which are pretty scarce here in sunny SA. Solid options are pretty common, but feedback and quality expanding bullets are pretty hard to find. Some shops stock Hornady DGX & suggest it as a quality product Thanks to this forum I know better

Would it be considered foolish using good quality expanding bullets such as Barnes or Swift for heart / lung shots on Ele for the two calibers ? or should I rather stick with solids only?

Expansion is your enemy when hunting elephant. Any form of expansion whatsoever. You need to use a strongly constructed steel jacketed solid or (better yet) a brass monometal solid with a wide flat meplat.

You want a nose profile at least as blunt as this post 1982 pre 1989 Hornady round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solid.

Or better yet, like this (the Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solid on the left)

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Any thoughts on Heart / Lung shots on Ele wit a 470NE & 404 Jeff?

I'm planning a father & son ele hunt.
On previous occasions the vegetation lent plenty opportunity for heart / lung shots, but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only...a few hairy moments were had.
I have since upgraded to a .470 NE, the Oldman carried his 9.3x62 for DG, but required an upgrade too so had him his dream caliber, a custom 404J built so he can honestly "cut his own tail" this year

Load development for the 404 have to be done...we are still sourcing components which are pretty scarce here in sunny SA. Solid options are pretty common, but feedback and quality expanding bullets are pretty hard to find. Some shops stock Hornady DGX & suggest it as a quality product Thanks to this forum I know better

Would it be considered foolish using good quality expanding bullets such as Barnes or Swift for heart / lung shots on Ele for the two calibers ? or should I rather stick with solids only?

Expansion is your enemy when hunting elephant. Any form of expansion whatsoever. You need to use a strongly constructed steel jacketed solid or (better yet) a brass monometal solid with a wide flat meplat.

You want a nose profile at least as blunt as this post 1982 pre 1989 Hornady round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solid.
View attachment 697208
Or better yet, like this (the Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solid on the left)
View attachment 697209

 

[BryceM]

Well, this is an old zombie thread.......

I think there's nearly universal agreement on this topic, which is a rare thing in the hunting world.

While, something like a TSX would probably work on a perfect broadside presentation (I have no doubt it would), there's nothing dictating to the elephant that he just stand there perfectly. If they become aware of you, they almost always turn to face you. Then what? Not a good time to be switching out bullets or trying to sort out which trigger belongs to which load. If you do land one perfectly in the chest it's always a good idea to keep shooting for as long as the elephant remains in sight. They can cover VAST distances in short order. Best to perforate them enough to keep them in the general area. There is a very real possibility of needing to stop a charge too. Might be the PH who saves you. Might be you who saves the PH, or tracker, or cameraman, or the young villager who bumps into a wounded elephant later in the evening.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Any thoughts on Heart / Lung shots on Ele wit a 470NE & 404 Jeff?

I'm planning a father & son ele hunt.
On previous occasions the vegetation lent plenty opportunity for heart / lung shots, but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only...a few hairy moments were had.
I have since upgraded to a .470 NE, the Oldman carried his 9.3x62 for DG, but required an upgrade too so had him his dream caliber, a custom 404J built so he can honestly "cut his own tail" this year

Load development for the 404 have to be done...we are still sourcing components which are pretty scarce here in sunny SA. Solid options are pretty common, but feedback and quality expanding bullets are pretty hard to find. Some shops stock Hornady DGX & suggest it as a quality product Thanks to this forum I know better

Would it be considered foolish using good quality expanding bullets such as Barnes or Swift for heart / lung shots on Ele for the two calibers ? or should I rather stick with solids only?

Expansion is your enemy when hunting elephant. Any form of expansion whatsoever. You need to use a strongly constructed steel jacketed solid or (better yet) a brass monometal solid with a wide flat meplat.

You want a nose profile at least as blunt as this post 1982 pre 1989 Hornady round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solid.
View attachment 697208
Or better yet, like this (the Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass flat nosed Safari Solid on the left)
View attachment 697209

 

[Andrew62]

I have used Barnes TSX's on several buffalo hunts, and one hippo hunt with a lot of luck - they have performed perfectly, but I have never hunted elephant - Interested to hear what someone with experience says.

In 2010 I took an end of season buffalo hunt in the Zambezi valley. When I got to camp my guide said they had 1 tuskless tag left, and seeing how I was the last hunter of the year, November, they offered me the tag. All I had for ammo was Barnes TSX for my .375H&H. During my buffalo hunt we crossed paths with a tuskless, from about 30 yards my first shot was just a bit above her eyes, she fell on her butt, I put 3 in her chest, she died right there. Now, I do not recommend this to anyone, and on my next elephant hunt this September, I will once again be taking Barnes Banded solids, which performed wonderfully well with a frontal brain shot on my last elephant. So yes, Barnes TSX will work, just not the 'idea' situation, and a situation I would strive to avoid in the future. Lots of great solids out there to choose from.

 

[deewayne2003]

I had excellent results with .470ne Hydros on my tuskless last July.

First shot cut a 3” branch in half, broke her shoulder, fully penetrated the heart broke ribs on the opposite side and lodged under the skin and was found by axe strike….

Second round penetrated the heart and exited, 3rd round to the brain and it was over.

 

[Riflecrank]

Michael458 and staff (his name is Sam) at McCourry Institute of Ballistics in South Carolina are responsible for the final evolution of the Elephant Bullet.
This development has spanned over 20 years of field testing and bullet catching in the laboratories of MIB, working closely with North Fork and CEB to perfect the designs.

The latest fine tuning of the 400-gr/ .458-caliber CEB Safari Solid was to lengthen the nose projection of the 400-gr .458 Safari Solid to 0.700", not the 0.600" shown in photo above.
Busy scientists sometimes forget to update a photo, very understandable.

The latest 400-gr/.458 Safari Solid now has same nose projection as the 450-grainer.
This latest .458/400-gr 0.700"NP Safari Solid is easily driven to 2500 fps from a 24"-barreled .458 WIN MAG.
And the .458/450-gr 0.700"NP Safari Solid is easily driven to 2350 fps from a 24"-barreled .458 WIN MAG.
Just requires a COL of 3.360" to 3.380".
Works in any SAAMI .458 WIN MAG if the rifle can feed the FN.

 

[grand veneur]

From elephants; brain shots but also heart and lung shots.

 

[grand veneur]

View attachment 697219

Well, this is an old zombie thread.......

I think there's nearly universal agreement on this topic, which is a rare thing in the hunting world.

While, something like a TSX would probably work on a perfect broadside presentation (I have no doubt it would), there's nothing dictating to the elephant that he just stand there perfectly. If they become aware of you, they almost always turn to face you. Then what? Not a good time to be switching out bullets or trying to sort out which trigger belongs to which load. If you do land one perfectly in the chest it's always a good idea to keep shooting for as long as the elephant remains in sight. They can cover VAST distances in short order. Best to perforate them enough to keep them in the general area. There is a very real possibility of needing to stop a charge too. Might be the PH who saves you. Might be you who saves the PH, or tracker, or cameraman, or the young villager who bumps into a wounded elephant later in the evening.

I would not trust an expansion bullet when hunting elephants. The elephant is a very big animal and in all cases a deep penetration of the bullet is required. Solids/FMJ or monolithic bullets are in all cases recommended. Ultimately, a lot depends on the cartridge used. To kill an elephant with a brain shot, the caliber may perhaps not play the biggest role, but when it comes to a heart and lung shot, a bigger caliber is advantageous in all cases and then you don't need to shoot at a running away elephant.