Bullet suggestion for heart / lung shot on Elephant ?

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Jaws, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    Any thoughts on Heart / Lung shots on Ele wit a 470NE & 404 Jeff?

    I'm planning a father & son ele hunt.
    On previous occasions the vegetation lent plenty opportunity for heart / lung shots, but armed with the .375 I was leaning towards brain / head shots only...a few hairy moments were had.
    I have since upgraded to a .470 NE, the Oldman carried his 9.3x62 for DG, but required an upgrade too so had him his dream caliber, a custom 404J built so he can honestly "cut his own tail" this year

    Load development for the 404 have to be done...we are still sourcing components which are pretty scarce here in sunny SA. Solid options are pretty common, but feedback and quality expanding bullets are pretty hard to find. Some shops stock Hornady DGX & suggest it as a quality product :confused: Thanks to this forum I know better (y)

    Would it be considered foolish using good quality expanding bullets such as Barnes or Swift for heart / lung shots on Ele for the two calibers ? or should I rather stick with solids only?
     

  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I believe you'll need to stick with solids. The Barnes or A Frame may get some penetration, but likely not as much as you need.
     
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  3. rafaellinne

    rafaellinne AH Member

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    Stick with solids
     
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  4. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    Thanks, will stick to solids then.(y)
     

  5. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    check out Woodleigh's hydro static solid or Swift's new solid. these will do more damage then a standard round nose bullet and should still give you plenty of penetration.

    http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/products/hydrostatically-stabilised

    https://www.swiftbullets.com/pages/bullets#break-away

    if your unable to get these bullets then you should look for a good flat nosed solid. Peregrine makes some very nice bullets and you should be able to easily get these as they are made in SA. http://peregrinebullets.co.za/

    -matt
     

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  6. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Absolutely use solids. Flat point solids (copper or brass) usually give deepest penetration. It's the follow up shots that have to do the work along uncertain tracks. A few more options for bullet choices- Flat point, banded solids are also offered from : GS Custom USA, North Fork, Cutting Edge and Barnes (470 only in FP).
     

  7. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    The Woodleigh Hydro would be an ideal choice. Plenty of penetration for a frontal brain shot and yet does significantly more damage than a traditional solid on heart/lung. I left my unused Hydros (300gr .375) with Grant Taylor and crew in Moz in October (shhhhh - don't tell customs), where they have taken at least two bulls to date.
     

  8. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    E50BDE15-3CA3-4B6D-8C3A-50D017750D3F.jpeg 3B09E637-4263-4746-BAAE-64503F1E8752.jpeg
    Jaws,
    As Phil said stick with the solids.
    The bullet above (1st photo) is a Hornady DGS bullet that I recovered from the bull in my avatar. The big hole in the (2nd photo) is the exit wound from that bullet which passed from the other side to just under the skin!
    Very little deformity and the weight retention is almost total.
    Elephant skin is very thick as you probably know and punching through it is no easy task for any bullet.
    By the way I used 416 Ruger and the bullet was 400 grain. I recently upgraded to the 470 NE as well and I am looking forward to trying it out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2018

  9. bassasdaindia

    bassasdaindia AH Elite

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    If you reside here in SA use a Peregrine solid , freely available with load data.

    I use the solids in my .458 and .470 .
     

  10. Pondoro

    Pondoro AH Fanatic

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    On elephant solids are the only way to go..

    I have shot 3 elephant with 480 grain DGS bullets (.458Win.) and must say I am pleased with them. All shots were lung-heart (and coupe de grace head shots..).

    That .458Win. is to become a .500 Jeffery...not because it is neccesarily needed, but I have an urge to try that round on elephant.

    I have stocked up with Hornady DGS ammo in .375H&H (got a bargain) as a reserve rifle during ele hunts. The 300 grain Rhino brass bullet is also very good for elephant in a .375H&H...I used that on my last ele during a night hunt.

    A buddy who live in Africa took a frontal brain shot with that Rhino bullet...it passed under the brain and penetrated right through and took the animal in the spine and floored it (!).

    In my double .475, I use conventional Woodleigh solids....but the new Woodleigh Hydro get much praise. I think those would be hard to beat in a modern .470..

    But be warned...elephant hunting is very addictive....I have become totally fanatic about it..:eek:
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  11. IvW

    IvW AH Legend

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    Solids only for elephant.

    Stay away from Hornady or Barnes X for elephant.

    It is not that expanding bullets won't get the job done(I have shot elephant with Rhino expanding bullets, broadside just behind the shoulder) but rather that you cannot be sure what shot placement will be presented. A broadside shot turns very quickly into a full frontal head up shot with the elephant staring you down and then you have a problem when loaded with expanding bullets.

    In solids the best performing ones are solid brass with a big Meplat(flat front). You cannot get better than the South African made Rhino solids, the Dzombo solids are just as good. Hydros seem to have a good reputation so far but I have never felt the need to change from the Rhinos I use as they have always performed with the utmost satisfaction.

    One thing you need to consider is that depending on which double rifle you have bought your guarantee will be void if you use solid brass bullets as opposed to conventional jacketed solids. With Krieghoff your guarantee will be void and with VC not.

    If the maker of your double does not guarantee the rifle if you use solid brass bullets your best choice would be either Woodleigh conventional solids or Stewarts solids if available.
     

  12. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    Thank you gents, great advice!

    For the 470, I have 120 Barnes Bras banded solid flat points (500grn) I will be hand loading & I'm sure they will suffice for either shot placement.
    I think it is pretty obvious that I'm keen on the Barnes products. I have had great success with it in the .375 and like to keep things uniform especially if I consider component availability.

    The 404J is the uncharted scenario. I like the suggestion for the Woodleigh Hydro, Now to find a supplier...
    Peregrine would be my second choice. I have made contact with them & ordered some samples.
     

  13. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    Thanks IvW, I have the 450/400 & 470NE both VC. Quite frankly I normally consider something bought in SA the same as bought second hand ... waranty & supplier back-up tends to be problematic in general, but a valid point nonetheless.

    Will have look at the Rhino bullets, sounds promising.
     

  14. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Yes I am starting to get the itch to elephant hunt again myself.
     

  15. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Since you're in RSA the GS Custom bullets should be readily available. The 450 gr 458 bullet on left was recovered from bull elephant skull after +/- 5 feet ft penetration. It could easily be loaded and shot again. The GS FP Solid design is among the deepest penetrating bullets I've ever tested in wet pack media.

    GS Custom FP.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  16. Travis2282

    Travis2282 AH Enthusiast

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    Brain shots or heart lung? If it was lung/heart shots did they say how much penetration they got out of this bullet?
     

  17. DWB

    DWB AH Veteran

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    There are PLENTY options in RSA for the 404 Jeffery.

    Dzombo, Rhino, GS Custom, Peregrine, Kriek, Impala, Frontier etc etc

    Drop me a private message if you get stuck.

    20180204_202801.jpg
    L to R
    Kriek, Impala, Peregrine, Barnes, Dzombo
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  18. Jaws

    Jaws AH Senior Member

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    wow, the recovered GS Custom bullet look really impressive.

    DWB, will take you up on that offer thanks.
     

  19. Travis2282

    Travis2282 AH Enthusiast

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    Matt have you read any info on the stainless steel tipped hydro bullets that are being tested?
     

  20. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    i haven't heard anything about them but i would be interested! to be honest im surprised no one has made a steel bullet with either copper or brass driving bands. the only reason i dont see it happening here could be legal reasons. perhaps the US gov might consider them armor piercing... god forbid gangsters start roaming the streets with large bore hunting rifles!

    -matt
     
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