Bowhunters left alone in their blinds

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Africa' started by H50, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. jeff

    jeff AH Elite

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    This seems to be a area that many have different ideas on what is legal, it has been said on the forum that a the number of hunters a PH can guide is different depending on whether they are rifle or bowhunters? Also the law what is exactly under direct control? Dropped off with explicit instructions and a radio? I Have been on walk and stalk when the last 150 yards they let me stalk because they know two make twice the noise and movment. Also I am happy with what I shoot and would not do as you say and take advantage of the outfitter. If I Make a mistake I only have myself to blame. The smoking part is just me I don't like to sit in a hide and breathe smoke as I'm not a smoker. What about me in a tree stand and the PH is 200 yards away watching from a makeshift hide?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
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  2. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    The last a bit of stalk, I can understand and agree with on plains game, the PH, and you have chosen the animal, and he can be with you in seconds. The part of my comment about going wild in the blind was aimed more at the PH's, a bit on tongue in cheek, there are clients that want inches and will pull a trick like that.

    A radio certianally does not count as under direct control. There is no difference between a rifle or a bow client.
     
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  3. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    I have never let a client "go in for the kill" alone. I have managed so far to get both rifle and bow hunters close enough to kill cleanly. That is exactly why I am a PH, I should have the skill and ability to do this,easy to send the client alone and then say sorry you blew it yourself.
    I would like to see which PH or Outfitter leaves a client in a hide alone when they hunt Sable or Roan? Does one animals life mean more than another's because it is more expensive?
    Would also be a bit worried if they drop me and say shoot any Kudu they are all the same size or any other species for that matter, sounds like a stocked zoo.
     
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  4. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    HHS, I hear what you say about going in for the kill, but often we are hunting solo old sable bulls, let me tell you these old bulls are dam smart, sometimes they spot me in the front, and the client is a few yards behind me, I will signal to the client to go back and come around from the left or right, while I keep the bulls attention. Sometimes the bull will just keep watching me and the client gets his shot. If I move the bull is gone, as long as he keeps standing there snorting and moving side to side, I know he is not sure what I am and usually won't run until he knows I am danger.
     
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  5. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    TMS, I would consider that being in on the kill as you are close enough to have eyes on the animal.
     

  6. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    If you come to Africa to rifle or bow hunt, you cannot expect to shoot everything you stalk. Bow hunter has to understand that his odds are even worse on foot. Personally to me the hardest animal to bow hunt is a Impala ram in a herd,closely followed by a old Kudu bull.

    Can remember the clients surprise/shock when we were about 40 meters out from a Kudu bull and I stopped and said time for a smoke break:Cigar:
    If you bow hunt long enough you realize that the body can only take that amount of tention for a certain period before you start making mistakes, so taking a break often and especially just before the kill stalk helps prevent some mistakes. Takes more out of you to go in the last 20 meters than the previous 100 meters. Ooh and the client could not get his bow drawn on that Kudu at 25 meters, just nerves;)
     

  7. flatwater bill

    flatwater bill AH Fanatic

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    Africa is a big continent. With 63 different countries. It is not illegal to hunt alone in all of them. I know that. Being alone in a well constructed hide with a radio is probably less dangerous than a casual deer hunt in Idaho. Certainly less dangerous than a trip to the mall in Oakland. But in RSA it is illegal. It also keeps people employed. And while I agree that smoking doesn't scare the game...if they can smell the cigarette then they can smell you, and if they can't smell you then they can't smell the cigarette.....I totally agree with Jeff...........I don't hunt with smokers or chewers, so I check up front..........my dollar, my hunt. In general, getting to know a PH, their different culture and experience, is one of the fun things about a RSA hunt, so solitude can be overrated.

    Rest assured, they will not leave you alone in "wild Africa" .......perhaps an hour or two from OR Tambo................FW Bill
     
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  8. jeff

    jeff AH Elite

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    I've also had enjoyable hunts where I sat with a PH all the time. Many of the smaller outfits have resident hunters hunt thier property and they hunt alone often, many have less experience as they live in a large city and don't have the funds to hunt a lot.
     
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  9. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    If I had any PH say stop we need a smoke break as we were making a stalk I would just keep walking and let them follow up if they want. Then I would be having a long talk when back at the lodge that night about that happening.

    As for if animals can smell smoke or if it scares them away. Well my hunt and if I think it does no one is smoking when I am hunting period.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
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  10. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    Billc you miss the point, the smoke break would be a break to settle the client and get him ready for the kill stalk which takes way more effort. I guess you have done better than 176 head of game in one season with a bow? 30 from a hide and the rest on foot, longest shot 35meters and the closest on foot 4meters.Sometime you learn something,sometimes you don't, only long talks I have ever had with a client is about how exciting the stalk was and how good it was to take the break before the kill.

    Smoking has never been an issue for animals, Zebra dung is often burned to hide the smell of hunters from a hide.
     
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  11. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    Jeff, if it's local SA hunters the law does not require them to have a PH present. So you can basically buy a bow and be hunting the next day without any experience, go figure!
     

  12. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I did not miss anything and was talking for myself. I dont need to take a break to get ready to take the shot. Again thinking your the only one who knows how to hunt is what you are missing. I have stalked an elk for well over 4 miles after spotting it with binos. The area that stalk was made in was as tough as any land in the east cape. You hunt elk you dont get to take a break sometimes as he maybe looking for you and you hunt till you get him or he moves on.

    As for amount of animals I have hunted it will never be the same as hunting in SA as you would never get that many tags here in the states. Your kidding yourself if you think hunting in SA is harder then hunting here in the states. I know you really like patting yourself on the back but it really means nothing to me because those numbers in SA are doable by anyone who has the money to do so in SA.
     

  13. Norwegianwoods

    Norwegianwoods SILVER SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    Personally I would prefer that the PH stayed in the lodge with his cigarettes and whiskey and let me do all my hunting by myself :)
     
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  14. TokkieM

    TokkieM AH Fanatic

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    Billc there is a difference between arrogance,ignorance and experience. You would do well to learn them, maybe some common courtesy while you are at it. You seem to turn everything into a personal matter when you run into a opposing view.

    I have never seen a browsing Kudu stand still for long either, but being a good hunter does also require patients and seeing were the animal is headed can only help to make the hunt successful. Rushing has never made for good bow hunting or hunters.
    As for letting a client go in alone because of too much noise I am sure it depends on the client. I have had a extra PH his client,wife,son,photographer,camera man and tracker follow me to shoot a Zebra at 30 meters. It can be done.
    As for the amount of animals and patting myself on the back.
    Being privileged enough to hunt so many of them has also contributed to a little thing money can't buy and that's experience. The same experience that lucky for us PH's most clients need and appreciate.
    As for those numbers being doable for anyone with money keep telling yourself that. Money does not make a good hunter neither does it make you shoot straight. It gives you the opportunity to hunt,nothing more.
    As a more experienced PH on this forum said: Some guys think they know everything after a few trips to Africa.
     

  15. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    On a first trip, I think you would be very foolish to attempt to hunt alone. Even potting game at a waterhole on high-fenced property. This is not an issue of danger - though sharing a hide with a mamba can reinforce any latent religious feelings you may entertain. The issue is trophy judgement. We are able to quickly judge between 3 1/2 year old 130 class buck and a 5 year old 150 through years of experience. Many African animals are much more difficult - kudu are notoriously hard. Your PH will have made those calls for years. I would absolutely rely upon him until you build up the experience levels to make those calls yourself. That will take a while.
     
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  16. billc

    billc AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    It is not a personal matter at all as there is a lot of hunters from America who feel like I do. Also anyone who has to throw numbers around like yourself to show there experience that does turn in to ignorance and arrogance. I dont put your view down but know not everyone fits what you say. More people in the world know how to hunt then those who come from or just hunt Africa.

    I never said that more then one person in a group can not stalk and get close. Each there own and if that's what the client wants then that is good for them. If the client wants to stalk the last few yards on there own I see nothing wrong with that either.

    As for the money and hunting. Well I never said money makes you a good hunter but it does gives you the chance to hunt that many animals. That would be buying experience in most of those guys eyes and since they hunt more animals by your thinking that must make them better hunters.

    I have seen many of guys with money with big trophy game rooms. Any many of those guys could not hunt a lick on there own with out there hand being held by a PH. They a better hunter because they can follow a PH around.

    But you think some how a guy who only hunts a few animals a year does not have experience. That right there is some ignorance about skills of hunting.

    Every trip I take I try and learn more about hunting from who ever I am hunting with. I have also shared what I know with others and yes some have even learn a trick o two from some guy who only takes a few animal a year.
     

  17. I bowhunted about 80 percent of the time I hunted in Namibia in 2007 and rifle hunted the rest. Always had a PH with me. he called the shots, the animals etc. that is BS if someone leaves you alone with a walkie talkie, and I would Never ever hunt with or recommend that outfitter ever. My buddy was bow hunting on the same trip and a black mamba came into the blind. True Story. The PH, a great guy, helped control the situation, My friend is scared to death of snakes to begin with. Let alone, one of the deadliest and most aggressive snakes on this planet. They both got out unscathed, which I am not sure would have happened if the PH was not there.
     
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  18. jeffpg

    jeffpg AH Enthusiast

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    You definitely just lost me with that one... I can promise you that you'd remember my reaction as well.
     
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  19. Wheels

    Wheels AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    I am not a bow hunter.

    When hunting with a rifle, the PH has always been present.

    I have hunted around waterholes/ponds with a shotgun and 22 for birds by myself. Once when the PH came back I told him I had shot a Kori Bustard. His jaw :E Eek: and his eyes:E Shocked:.

    Me, :E Rofl::E Rofl::E Rofl:
     
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  20. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    It might look something like this!

     
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