Discussion in 'Bowhunting Africa' started by H50, Apr 12, 2015.
That would work
This is all very interesting and I can see both sides of the discussion. I will be hitting SA this coming August and it is my understanding that we will be left alone in the hides. I will be verifying this with the outfitter in the next couple weeks but I'm totally fine with it. Actually I prefer it. I hate small talk and don't want someone whispering in my ear when I'm hunting or about to take a shot. I will be 75/25 blind hunting/stalking and when it comes to stalking I will definitely be relying on my PH.
My brother, a smoker, would always puff a few while deer hunting from a tree stand. Unfortunately one of the locals picked up the habit.
@DrewFS , check the law with your outfitter.
I hunted bear in Maine where I was left in the hide by myself. I shot a bear right at last light and called the guide on a radio that I was given. I waited until he came and stayed in the hide until they found the bear. They did ask me if I heard a death moan which I did.
In some jurisdictions it is legal to "plant" a hunter with a radio.
Check the local ordinance and you will know for certain.
Maine also had a law that you had to take all shells out of your rifle when shooting hour was up. That kind of suck when you walked out in the dark.
Apples and oranges. A city slicker from Alberta can hunt anything, anywhere in Alberta with no experience. Yet Jeff, you cannot not hunt without a guide or a hunter-host accompanying you at all times. Just the rules, nothing more, nothing less. I would imagine that RSA residents can hunt on private property without a PH, but a non-resident cannot.
On my friends farm, I know that he (a PH) may not go with the RSA hunter, but if available, the tracker goes with the hunter. My friend has stated that most RSA hunters are after meat, but they will try to shoot a big bull as they have more meat, but will not want to pay the trophy fee for shooting a bull. Having the tracker with the hunter helps avoid this. It has gotten to the point that he almost will not allow RSA hunters on his property, just not worth the hassle.
I watched shows with Tim Miranda, and he hunts alone at times in South Africa.
Unless the camera man is also a PH.
Referring to the Limpopo Ordinance: www.phasa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Limpoprd.pdf
Hunting Of wild and Animals by Clients (Clients are Hunters which do not reside within the republic of South Africa)
1. A client may hunt a wild or alien animal only;
(a) if the hunt has been organized by a hunting-outfitter; and
(b) under the supervision of a professional hunter.
BTDT. Hunted with a guide up north. Took guys out every afternoon and if you were the first one dropped off, you were the last one picked up. 11:00 at night, pitch dark, can't see my hand in front of my face, no flashlight, no food, no matches, nada, I'm still sitting in a tree stand, bait pile twenty five yards down a tunnel of brush and trees off of a skinny trail. I'll let you guess if I unloaded.
As far as RSA, I would surmise a solo hunter could be a liability issue.
I think this is where the debate begins. What is the legally accepted definition of “under the supervision of a professional hunter”?
Is the intent "direct" supervision as the PH being within a certain distance from his client? If so, how far away is too far? Six feet? Fifty yards? Back at the pickup a hundred yards away but in sight? A half mile away but in sight?
Well in my personal and professional opinion, I would deem it Illegal and irresponsible to leave a client alone in Africa. Yes I understand that there are guys that have hunted in Africa on numerous occasions. But here is 3 small things I see wrong with doing this.
1. Unprofessionalism. it is a professional hunters duty to make sure the needs of his clients are catered to fully. Someone commented that they would be dropped off without food etc, and only be picked up at 11:00pm. I cant wrap my head around it. Some people just weren't made for this industry.
2. As experienced as you may be, even PH's make mistakes. So what happens if you incorrectly identify a species that may require a Cites or T.O.P.S permit. A silly example would be Sable and Roan. You might laugh, but I see hunters, very experienced hunters that come to Africa make simple mistakes like this
3. Liability, a dangerous animal gets to you, or a snake bites you... how many hunters on here haven't had a mamba or boomslang in the hide?. Now what? If I had to run my operation like this. I know, given the size of some of the concessions we hunt on, not to mention, as many of you know, and where elephants are present, its not always a guarantee that roads are obstacle free. It may be a while until helps gets to you.
the list can go on, but the law requires one PH to every two clients. I can imagine that these outfitters are running more clients on less PH'S to make a quick buck.
My Advise, keep it legal!! Make sure you book with an reputable Outfitter, and report any such incidences.
I agree with you Wayne. All other things aside, it seems like a lot of liability for an outfitter/PH to take on should something go sideways. More risky in some ares than others.
But still, what is the legally accepted definition of “under supervision”? It’s something of a rhetorical question. Not really looking for an answer, just illustrating that in some peoples opinion this may be a gray area.
Well I agree with you, and I understand that there is a difference between common sense and people who bend the rules just as far as they can. To you and I this would mean under direct supervision, but I think a lawyer would have his way if this had to go to a court. I guess the ordinance should have been more descriptive, there may or may not be a section in there that goes into more detail, but we will leave that for one of the youngsters fresh out of PH school to answer.
My first safari in 2008 I never had a PH in my blind. Didn't know any better until I came home and was reading about it. At that time there was some debate that if you had a radio it was allowed. I didn't even know what some of the animals were. Before you say it must of been horrible, I would say I actually thought it was a lot of fun. I had the wife with me and it was a great experience. The first animal I shot.....a 58" kudu! I had no clue. I was amazed in 2009 on our second safari how much different it was with a PH full time. He did all the filming and of course pointed out a million things as well. It was a real eye opener and I learned so much more then the first time.
I have been on approx 15 cull hunts in RSA - with one notable exception - The PH has always been with me - the exception I was helping to train up a young one - so the PH stood back and let us set ambushes for Springbok - no black springbok to be shot ! about hour into the ambush the springbok were moving nicely in the wind and we were getting a customer every 15 min - a black one comes up which I shot - the young trainee went nuts - polite nuts - I explained he should pay more attention - as anything in Africa with three legs - gets a bullet (save for bar stools - they get my full attention ! ) Young lad never did take his phone out the rest of the trip
Wow I have never seen a Kudu that big maybe someday
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