Avoiding CTE, brain damage, retina injury etc with big bore rifles ?

[Altitude sickness]

This is Mark Ouellette’s bailiwick. Perhaps he can weigh in on over pressure and concussive energy.

I don’t shoot the big bores more than 6-20 times at a wack.

Maybe rules have changed recently. I have seen with my own eyeballs US Army personnel shooting far more than 60lb rifles. It’s not the recoil, but the concussive force from the muzzle blast that gets you with these things. Makes you feel sick.

 

[375Fox]

Your head (brain) should not be moving enough and then coming to a quick stop to cause CTE. If it is. your doing something very wrong.

BUT !

If you have suffered a past TBI or repeated severe concussions it is much more prone to injury.

1st two photos are before and at end of recoil. Friends .450 Rigby

2nd two are before and at the end of recoil .505 Gibbs. My head has moved of course. But no sudden stop to slosh my brain around and bounce off the skull repeatedly.


View attachment 686991View attachment 686992View attachment 686993View attachment 686994

Your shooting stance is very different than mine. I stand straighter with my head and neck closer to my body. The photos with your 505 are the stance that caused me headaches. Before and after photos are very similar, but watching videos you’ll see recoil impacts your shoulder long before your head catches up to the recoil or the barrel begins to lift upwards. Videos really helped me identify what was happening in my particular circumstance and identify what I needed to change.

 

[Altitude sickness]

It’s really important to be firmly welded front and aft to the rifle. Your front hand, rear hand, and cheek need to be forced into the stock very firmly. So everything moves as one.

I do see a lot of video where the guy is slammed backwards. Rocked off their the balls of their feet. Face off the stock and hands losing grip. Slamming the shoulder then the cheek

 

[pilar]

I hunt DG with a 404 Jeffery that weighs 10 pounds. I have fired hundreds of practice rounds and a few in actual buffalo and eland hunting.

I shoot reduced rounds for practice (@ 1800 fps) and it produces recoil at about the level of a 30-‘06. These larger bore rifles require a bit of shooting to learn and adjust to the recoil. I find reduced rounds helped me get control of the rifle and I have no issues now shooting my regular 400 gr. Hunting loads with accuracy and without pain or flinching.

This sounds reasonable
I hade two friends who detached Retinas , while competing in pigeon tournaments
( hi brass 7 1/2 1.5 once loads)
I quit all competition shotgun games, because the recoil and sound vibration still goes through the bones to the eyes, ears, brain ! Wearing double hearing protection is just a myth on saving hearing, it helps but isn’t a fix ( consult a professional to see if I am correct)

Reducing loads for less damage then using the real stuff on DG sounds like a good idea over doing bodily harm

I switched to 28 & 20 gauge and sold all my 10’s and 12’s , don’t shoot my buddies 505 Gibbs anymore

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I see from the builder's specs sheet your gun has 13.5" LOP. Unless you have short arms and neck, I suspect the stock may be a bit short for 5'11" man, especially slight build (170 lbs). Add a slip-on recoil pad and see if that makes a difference. NOT Limbsaver. They are too soft, especially for thumper guns. Collapse too fast under heavy recoil. Also, their slip-on recoil pads are too squirrely. They don't stay put on the stock. Prone to slipping sideways. Pachmayer Decelerator are excellent but be aware their slip-on is designed for easy on ... and easy off too. I have lost several pheasant hunting in thick cover. They now make a cheaper no frills conventional model (Renegade?) that stays stuck much better. Also does not have the Decelerator's hard rubber tip at the top of the butt. That feature is nice for quick mounting and not grabbing clothes but don't lean your gun up against the wall on a hard floor. It will slip and fall over instantly.

If you do decide to try adding a slip-on, I would advise wrapping your middle finger of shooting hand with a bandaid or two above the knuckle. That heavy recoil gun will laterally jump back significantly wearing two recoil pads. The trigger guard will likely slam into that finger. I speak from experience wearing two recoil pads on my 3" mag goose gun. And if you put on a Limbsaver, your finger will definitely get hammered. Shooting trap loads with one of those really hurt me. Limbsaver are all around the most overrated piece of crap gun gear on the market. Catchy name and that's it.

 

[375Fox]

It’s really important to be firmly welded front and aft to the rifle. Your front hand, rear hand, and cheek need to be forced into the stock very firmly. So everything moves as one.

I do see a lot of video where the guy is slammed backwards. Rocked off their the balls of their feet. Face off the stock and hands losing grip. Slamming the shoulder then the cheek

Everything moving as one is a lot easier said than done. Your arms flex. A 10 lb rifle will recoil much faster than a 200 lb man. I found body position and especially head and neck position made the difference for me. I’d expect there was a point during recoil in your 450 Rigby photos the scope came considerably closer to your face than those two photos show like in mine.

Before shot

Start of recoil where rifle has impacted shoulder but barrel has not lifted up. Note how much closer face is to red dot

start Rolling back with recoil

 

[Altitude sickness]

I agree. Most of the force is going into your shoulder. So that will move first and most. I think we all agree. Shooting big bores too often or times isn’t optimal. Practice with a .22

 

[SafariCurious]

Here is my free advice, take it for what its worth.

Recently, many US States have dropped their minimum caliber requirements for big game. For example, Nevada went from requiring at least .243 Winchester to allowing .223 Remington.

The rationale was that modern bullets allow smaller caliber lower recoiling rifles to kill just as well as the old school bigger stuff.

The .375 minimum these days in some African countries is likely an archaic relic that will eventually be lowered as well, as there is no animal on earth that would survive a well-placed 30-06 shot with an appropriate hunting bullet within its effective range.

But, since you still like need at least a .375 to be legal some places, sell the bigger rifle that is causing you headaches and use the money to buy a nice lower recoiling .375.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I hunt DG with a 404 Jeffery that weighs 10 pounds. I have fired hundreds of practice rounds and a few in actual buffalo and eland hunting.

I shoot reduced rounds for practice (@ 1800 fps) and it produces recoil at about the level of a 30-‘06. These larger bore rifles require a bit of shooting to learn and adjust to the recoil. I find reduced rounds helped me get control of the rifle and I have no issues now shooting my regular 400 gr. Hunting loads with accuracy and without pain or flinching.

Are you shooting lighter bullets for practice? If 400 gr, what powder are you using to get velocity that slow without pushing out primers?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Everything moving as one is a lot easier said than done. Your arms flex. A 10 lb rifle will recoil much faster than a 200 lb man. I found body position and especially head and neck position made the difference for me. I’d expect there was a point during recoil in your 450 Rigby photos the scope came considerably closer to your face than those two photos show like in mine.

Before shot
View attachment 687049
Start of recoil where rifle has impacted shoulder but barrel has not lifted up. Note how much closer face is to red dot
View attachment 687050
start Rolling back with recoil
View attachment 687051

I note the positioning of your left hand. It appears to grasp the barrel above the forearm. I do know that this can significantly affect the accuracy of my 30-06 shooting off the bench at 100 yards plus when my thumb inadvertently wanders up and touches the barrel. Probably negligible effect for the ranges a 450R are intended? I have often wondered about the thin fore ends on classic African guns. Surely it impacted harmonics and accuracy when shooters were grasping the barrels? But I suspect knowledge of barrel harmonics and free floating is a relatively new phenomenon? Of course, double rifles in ginormous calibers must require gripping the barrels but harmonics must be a moot issue for their point blank purposes. Interesting.

 

[Scott CWO]

I have recently purchased a very nice .458 WM ( https://www.africahunting.com/threads/custom-rifle-ranch-458-win-mag.90030/ ) , and have been shooting it a bit zeroing iron sights that I installed. I love the rifle, and feel it is built correctly for a big bore. It has a wide comb that rises slightly to the rear, a wide butt, weighted 10 pounds with scope, a bit over 9 without scope. LOP is correct for me as far as I can tell (matches most every other rifle I shoot). I shoot it well, and can shoot it comfortably EXCEPT that I get a mild headache after a few rounds that lingers for days. It is really ruining my fun. I am a bit worried about long term health effects of shooting it. I have only shot it from the standing position off a barricade or sticks, not from bench. I am preparing for a 2026 buff and elephant hunt, shooting a 450 grain bullet at a chronoed 2310 FPS, with a recoil energy of 64 ft/lbs. Not insignificant, but not nearly as heavy as some of the real big boys. I have been shooting it with four cartridges in trap in buttstock, so weight is about 10 pounds without scope. I am probably an average sized 50 year old, 5' 11" 170 pounds.

The stock is not smacking my cheek, my shoulder doesn't have any issues, it seems the headache is caused by the recoil energy delivered causing rapid skull movement. I have seen CTE, retina detachment, etc mentioned in discussing big bore rifles, but nothing detailed or really much in the way of avoiding it. I imagine it is possible that I have some sort of medical condition that would exacerbate this problem, but I have had brain scans in the past which showed no issues. The last such scan was following a concussion a few years back, maybe prior concussions are to blame in the cumulative effect.

So what do the big bore experts here say ? Is this just something that goes with the territory with big rifles ? Am I an outlier in getting headaches from recoil ? What can I do to avoid this issue other than being satisfied with shooting and hunting with my 375s ? Running numbers in a recoil calculator shows that if the rifle weighs two pounds more, 12 pounds, the recoil energy drops to about 53 ft/lbs, a fair reduction. I have prepared 4 cartridges filled with lead that weigh nearly a pound to put in buttstock while shooting. I have considered adding a tungsten weight inletted under the barrel in forearm to add another pound. This would give me a 12 pound rifle for practicing, and a bit over 11 while hunting with actual cartridges in buttstock. Would a strap on wearable pad help with this aspect of the effects of recoil ? I have never used a shoulder pad, and assumed that they primarily help with shoulder discomfort which is not my issue. I will not use a lead sled, In my opinion they are pointless because the point of impact shifts, they do not replicate field positions, and they are very hard on stocks. I have heard positive things about the Edwards recoil reducers, but I cant install one in this rifle because of the cartridge trap in butt.

I know of a local hunter who hunted/hunts in Africa that did experience a brain injury with symptoms similar to a stroke attributed to firing big rifles, I am uncertain of the cartridge but from talking with his friend assumed it was something a lot bigger than a 458 Winchester. Last year I did fire one round from my PHs Krieghoff 500 NE, killing a zebra, and did not notice any issues.

I would welcome all thoughts, anecdotes, first hand accounts, etc dealing with injuries from recoil or ways to mitigate the risk. I really want to shoot and hunt with this rifle, but not at the expense of my health.

I raced motocross professionally for American Honda in my teens and 20s. I suffered two severe concussions - one even cracked my Bell helmet. Didn’t know my own parents or where I lived for a couple days.

To this day, I get headaches from roller coasters while my wife and kids do fine. I don’t even try anymore because it ruins the fun.

I have three 375s and a 458 Lott. I don’t get headaches but they fit me perfectly and their LOPs are correct. I think at 13.5” that your stock is too short so I suggest a thicker recoil pad. I also wonder if your scope is mounted too far back or forward, messing up your form as @375Fox mentioned. Get a scope with lots of eye relief. Also make sure your stock is firmly mounted to your shoulder and good grip in your hands. A 458 should rock you, not pop you, if your form and fit is correct. The worst recoiling rifle I had was a Savage 338WM. It gave me bad headaches like you mention. It didn’t fit me and it wasn’t worth spending money on it so I sold it. The 338 WM I now have and love is a custom build based on a Winchester M70 with a thumb hole stock and long LOP.

I don’t think you would get CTE from a 458. I think your headaches are due to a short LOP, shooting form and a light rifle.

 

[Ruraldoc]

A 10 pound 416 Remington firing a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps delivers 52.9 foot pound of energy to the shooter.

For me this is a lot more manageable than a 458 of the same weight.

I have a Model 70 in 416 with relatively heavy scope in steel (Warne) bases and rings. Loaded with a leather sling, it weights around 11 pounds.

But I practice with a Model 70 in 308 and shoot the 416 just enough to check zero and shoot at game.

I really think the 416 is a better client rifle for dangerous game for me and for most others as well.

Not everyone can handle a bigger gun. I did find a double rifle in 470 with weight in the stock to be very manageable as well with handloads with Reloader 15. With factory ammo the 470 was more of a handful.

 

[375Fox]

I note the positioning of your left hand. It appears to grasp the barrel above the forearm. I do know that this can significantly affect the accuracy of my 30-06 shooting off the bench at 100 yards plus when my thumb inadvertently wanders up and touches the barrel. Probably negligible effect for the ranges a 450R are intended? I have often wondered about the thin fore ends on classic African guns. Surely it impacted harmonics and accuracy when shooters were grasping the barrels? But I suspect knowledge of barrel harmonics and free floating is a relatively new phenomenon? Of course, double rifles in ginormous calibers must require gripping the barrels but harmonics must be a moot issue for their point blank purposes. Interesting.

I think that would likely just be appearances due to wearing gloves. CZ 550s in magnum actions like that though aren’t made for accuracy. There is actually an additional action/barrel screw about 2/3 way down the forearm of stock. It’s not free floating and needs tightened occasionally and will change the impact.

 

[VertigoBE]

Are you shooting it in an inside gun range? Better hearing protection could be the ticket?

 

[DWB]

I can't believe no one has told you to man up

I have developed some headaches in the beginning from my larger rifles, actually had it the first time from my 9.3x62

Then as I progressed onto the 404, 450 Rigby and now 500, I realized I only got it 2 or 3 times then it stopped.

So I believe it can go away with a little bit of excercise.

But they aren't fun for sure!

 

[Nyati]

Shoot a .375HH, you don´t need anything bigger.

If the weight is right and the stock fits you, it´s actually a pleasant caliber to shoot.

 

[HankBuck]

I can't believe no one has told you to man up

I have developed some headaches in the beginning from my larger rifles, actually had it the first time from my 9.3x62

Then as I progressed onto the 404, 450 Rigby and now 500, I realized I only got it 2 or 3 times then it stopped.

So I believe it can go away with a little bit of excercise.

But they aren't fun for sure!

@DWB: I know your first sentence is “joking” — but hope the “believe it can go away with exercise” is also kidding?? The OP indicates Someone with a history of concussions, is now getting Recoil induced headaches — what is the recommended “exercise” ? Regarding recoil, when someone is having problems from Too Much recoil the solution is usually to move down to a Lower recoiling gun - Not Up. If I can’t take a good punch from a Lightweight — I’m Not going to fight a Heavyweight.

 

[colorado]

If a rifle’s recoil is moving my brain around inside my skull to the extent that it’s causing me headaches, ain’t no way in hell that I’m gonna try to get used to it. Use the 375

100% I've never felt that with my 12lb CZ550 in 500 Jeffery shooting 570g at 2300 fps. If I did I would've sold it immediately. I still only shoot a few rounds through it a month, all offhand.

 

[DWB]

@DWB: I know your first sentence is “joking” — but hope the “believe it can go away with exercise” is also kidding?? The OP indicates Someone with a history of concussions, is now getting Recoil induced headaches — what is the recommended “exercise” ? Regarding recoil, when someone is having problems from Too Much recoil the solution is usually to move down to a Lower recoiling gun - Not Up. If I can’t take a good punch from a Lightweight — I’m Not going to fight a Heavyweight.

I hear you, but as I said, mine went away after 2 or 3 times...

Getting recoil fit can happen

 

[glblanchard]

Increase LOP, lighter bullets, PAST shoulder pad, proper shooting form all will help. Check out Falcon Strike Recoil Pad.