Ammo Guide Ballistic Comparison : 6.5 Creedmoor v 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by Gert Odendaal, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Members, here is some interesting data..I would like some opinions/discussions in regards to what you can make out of these data tables ...
     

  2. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    the bottom graph tells it all.
    much of the creedmoor stuff is slanted due to fashion.
    loaded to equal pressure the x 55 has greater capacity, and therefore velocity potential.
    the creedmoor is really like the 6.5 mannlicher all things being equal with apples and oranges.
    bruce.
     
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  3. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    This is what I see:
    Something interesting : when shooting the 160 gn bullet , the 6.5 x55 Swede is running ahead??? Would like some opinions in this regards?? Is the Swede the rifle to go to if you want to shoot a heavy bullet..making it a better hunting cartridge and the Creedmoor a better target cartridge>????
     

  4. shootist~

    shootist~ AH Senior Member

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    It might be possible to analyze if the specific bullet, barrel lengths and powder used were shown is all cases. As is, it's not very useful, IMO. Temperature becomes very important ad well with RL17 powder, btw. (AMHIK) :(

    But generally, it shows RL17 in the CM gets more velocity with 140s than some unknown powder gets with 129s. FWIW, I currently use RL17, RL16, and H4350 in the 6.5 Creedmoor and RL22 for some surplus 6.5x55s.

    RL17 is very temp sensitive and based on my experience, the 140 gr velocity shown would be above max in my 24" Tikka 6.5CM - with 140 A-Frames. I get 2,748 fps and excellent accuracy at about a grain below max at 72F with RL17. 20 degrees hotter and I would be checking cases for pressure signs.

    In a 26" barrel I did get similar velocity (>2,800) with Hornady 140 ELD-Ms and RL17. (And ran into excess pressure issues on a hot day.)

    RL16 gets me considerably more velocity than the example for 129s, (2,846 fps for me) with 130 Sciroccos in the 24" Tikka 6.5 CM.

    And it's pretty much documented that the 6.5x55 (in a modern-day rifle) is more suitable with the heavier bullets.

    My $.02 anyway.
     

  5. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    the swede will shoot any bullet faster at the same pressure.
    it is like a larger capacity engine.
    the main advantage of the creedmoor is that it can fit into a 308 length mag with long target bullets, and therefore suits prs and tactical shooting.
    any accuracy difference between it and the swede is debatable, as both are extremely accurate.
    the swede loaded to full potential will have a little more recoil, but both cartridges do not have much.
    anything "creedmoor" costs more, simply because people will pay more for fashion in preference to thinking.
    compare 6.5 creedmoor and 6.6 x 47 lapua brass to 6.5 x 55 brass costs in lapua brass.
    just goes to show how many people would rather "buy" accuracy and speed in preference to doing the work.
    there is no doubt that the 6.5 creedmoor is an excellent 800, 900, and 1000 yd sling shooting cartridge, but it is inferior to the swede in the hunting field.
    prs shooters hate any recoil, and are now going to the 6.5 creedmoor necked down to 6mm, as they can more easily see hits on steel targets when including muzzle breaks.
    of course this thinking is irrelevant in true hunting.
    however it suggests that the 6mm creedmoor might well have supplanted the 6.5 creedmoor within 10 yrs.
    another thought is that with modern bullets there is no need to go over 140 gns in 6.5.
    bruce.
     

  6. Albert GRANT

    Albert GRANT AH Fanatic

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    It does seem the 6.5x55 is the better option for reloaders. I will say I fell into the marketing trap and bought not 1 but 2 6.5 Creedmoor rifles (my son and I both shoot it) I don't see this as a bad thing though because it introduced me to a caliber that isn't used in my area even though it has exceptional performance. I now am fully aware of the wonders this little bullet is capable of, and I will one day have a very nice 6.5x55 rifle to call my own.
     
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  7. Accidental Villain

    Accidental Villain AH Member

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    My first thought is that 6,5 Creedmoore will struggle with COL with such a long and heavy bullet ?
    Otherwise, larger cased cartridges will usually show their larger capasity especially when it comes to heavy for caliber bullets. Just look at 7x57 vs 7x64 - 30-06 vs 300 Win Mag - 416 RM/404/416 Ruger vs 416 Rigby. The smaller cases run out of steam.
    BTW the 6,5x55 brass is so cheap because we scandinavians burn millions of them every year so both Norma and Lapua makes huge batches of them:P Banana:. 6,5x55 is very popular over here for 300 meters match as well as long range shooting and is also widely used as big game cartridge and it accounts for 10`s of thousands if not 100`s of thousands moose and deer evert year.
     

  8. 35bore

    35bore AH Legend

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    Actually , I told myself that I would never own one (6.5 creed) and I don't. My second youngest son cut his teeth deer hunting whitetail with a Remington 700 in 6mm rem. He loves the rifle and caliber, but now that he enlisted on his birthday none the less. I realized that I too love the 243 on steroids. So I bought him a Ruger in 6.5 for his birthday and spent more than usual because he followed the ole man footsteps.After he enlisted, I scoped it and sighted it in for him(my pleasure) when I went to get ammo (factory because I'm not a reloader) I was amazed at the selection. So, withe the short story being long, that would be my reasoning for the creed, because of factory loads . I still don't own one but his is in my safe and it is an accurate little shit.
     

  9. Mike Van Horn

    Mike Van Horn AH Veteran

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    IMO the "only reason " the creedmore is popular is fantastic marketing. There are several cartridges that perform better.
     
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  10. 35bore

    35bore AH Legend

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    Agreed , still accurate though brother. I'm not buying into the hype, but just stating fact of the matter. The thing I find fascinating about the 6.5, I makes you an automatic sniper. No training, no dope book, hell you don't even need to read wind (only by a few articles I've read about it). I'm sure there's better, but you can't argue availability of factory ammo.
     

  11. JPbowhunter

    JPbowhunter AH Fanatic

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    Pretty much none of the calibres brought out in the last 40 years are anything other than rehashes of existing calibres.

    I've literally heard people praise the 7mm08 and talk down the 7x57! Haha the only difference in a modern action is that the latter will outdo the former with heavier projectiles.

    The 6.5 creedmoor is nothing other than marketing spin on what was already available.

    My local gun dealer is a great example, telling me recently the 6.5 creedmoor is dead, now you have to have the 6mm creedmoor.

    I shoot a muzzleloader, 30-06, 7x57 and 9.3x62 so I guess you could say I'm behind the times.
     

  12. Mike Van Horn

    Mike Van Horn AH Veteran

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    The 6.5-284 is a go to cartridge at 1000 yard benchrest targets. The new 6.5 PRC out performs the creedmore and the 6.5-284

    Available factory ammo is marketing. Right along with the Ruger Percision Rifle in the creedmore
     

  13. TMac

    TMac AH Senior Member

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    May as well add in the 260Rem and make it a trio. Have used 2 of the 3 on game, all under 350 yards. For hunting, not enough difference to make an argument. For target/LR work, 6.5CM for the shorter stiffer action, that long neck in a SA cartridge and a little less recoil. For nostalgia, the 6.5x55 is the pick.

    If you do not hand load, best stick with the 6.5CM, it has ammo availability on its side, big time. If you want the fastest among the three because you think there is enough extra speed in one to matter in hunting, I’d suggest you skip all three and pick a 6.5 with a noticeably larger engine room...

    Right now, imo, the 6.5CM offers many advantages over the other three, but I have yet to own one. I have shot several. When I bought my youngest son his first BG rifle, it was a 260Rem, about 20 years ago. Today it would be the 6.5CM because I don’t hand load at this time.
     

  14. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    the 6.5/284 was the darling of 1000 yds and fclass until its barrel life became too much of a bore.
    we used to get 284 win brass and nech it down to 6.5 until lapua brought out 6.5/284 brass.
    when guys discovered that the 284 win gave more than twice the barrel life, and was better in the wind as well, it became the workhorse of fclass.
    then we had to neck up lapua 6.5/284 brass to 7mm. how the worm turns.
    lapua brought out the 6.5x47 for 300 meter shooting, and it was tried for long range.
    where it came up short was with the 140 gn bullets necessary for ranges over 600 yds.
    it just lacked the capacity to hold enough h4350 to give them sufficient speed.
    in fact, the 6mm br turned out to be a better 1000 yd benchrest round.
    the 6br is now also becoming the darling of many prs and tactical shooters as well due to accuracy and no recoil.
    the 6.5x47 is very nearly as accurate as the 6br in grouping ability.
    American palma shooting does not require use of the 308, as does international palma. (800, 900, and 1000 yds with sling)
    their across the course also does not require the 308.
    reducing recoil and wind deflection of the 308 makes these disciplines far easier to shoot.
    Hornady saw the opening left between the 6.5 lapua and the 6.5/284, and introduced the 6.5 creedmoor with min case size to hold enough h4350 to drive 140ish gn low drag bullets at meaningful velocities for target shooting out to 1000 yds.
    they also supplied load data and factory ammo and the round took off.
    somehow now it is considered to be an all round long range cartridge for anything.
    we should realize it is what it is, a small cased 6.5 that does the above mentioned well.
    this does not mean it can do everything as some believe it will.
    for long range hunting it cannot deliver energy at long range, because it does not have much to start with.
    remember it was designed to poke holes in paper.
    its bullets do not have the velocity at long range to perform as hunting bullets should.
    and its small calibre means it must have everything in its favour when the bullets get there.
    handloading the 6.5x55 in lapua brass of equal quality to lapua 6.5x47 brass, and better than Hornady etc creedmoor brass, to similar pressures will drive 140 gn bullets nearly as fast as the 6.5/284 - way ahead of the creedmoor.
    more energy, longer point blank range, good accuracy, and similar recoil in the field.
    bruce.
     
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  15. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    just for interest sake, I have been using the 6.5 superLR for some years.
    it holds 2 more gns of powder than the creedmoor and a few less than the 260 rem, for reference.
    a lovely rifle to shoot at targets,
    I get 2930 fps from 140 gn vld bullets out of a 32" barrel on a good accuracy node.
    12 6.5/284 barrels had nodes between 2950 and 2970.
    wind deflection at 1000 yds is in the real world the same.
    the superLR and the creedmoor are pretty much ballistic twins.
    the 284 win is better in the wind, but recoils more.
    bruce.
     
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  16. ActionBob

    ActionBob AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Sounds like a man who needs a 404 Jeffrey, or better yet, a 505 Gibbs;)
     
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  17. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Gert, you are researching this to death. Just build a 6.5 x 55 with all of the Swedish Mauser dimensions and you will never look back. Virtually all of the modern 6.5(s) have done little if anything to improve the "Swede's" capabilities when properly loaded.
     

  18. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Shootist43, be fair, give me some slack, I am enjoying researching/planning /discussing the 6.5 x 55 Swede ...look at all the great input members make about this caliber....I just returned from a gun shop who was able to provide me with an extractor and a trigger for the 6.5 x 55 Swede...the action is complete now and I will fit a magazine box/trigger guard /floor plate with magazine follower tomorrow..then this project is lined up to be completed after I completed my 8x68S rifle build...

    I would like some opinions in regards to this caliber`s extreme long lock time?? I am sure it will have no negative effect on hunting or ghong shooting with this rifle? All in all, I am quite sure I am going to like this small little caliber ..it is a change to all my large bore rifles...(y):A Banana:
     
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  19. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Ok, ok! I thought you were backsliding on me. There is a modification available for the bolt that that changes the action from cock on closing to cock on opening. It is available from Dayton Traister. I have it installed on my original 6.5 x 55. That modification reduces the lock time by approximately 1/3. What I don't know is if it is available to you. But as previously mentioned the longer lock time may not effect your intended use at all.
     
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  20. Gert Odendaal

    Gert Odendaal AH Elite

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    Will never do that..you have a 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser ...no, not needed, will use it with the original trigger ...want to build a very light , old word classic stalking/hunting rifle ...some thing that looks nice and shoot sweet..(y):LOL::LOL:
     
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