Alaska: Heli hunting on Brownbears

[BJH65]

I also think it helps protect no -residents from themselves. Hunting the wilderness of Alaska is in a different league than hunting wilderness areas in the lower 48. A hunt can turn into a life and death situation in a heartbeat.

My friends did a do it yourself combination drop in caribou hunt then inflatable raft another 8-9 miles for moose in remote Alaska. They had a very exciting, tough hunt not without some drama when negotiating some rapids on their raft en route to the moose hunting area, a caribou antler impaled one of the hunters through his cheek! I guess that’s what duct tape is for.

These were very experienced outdoorsman quite capable of doing a do it yourself grizzly hunt if legal. But yes, not everyone is equal in ability and skillset.

Rather funny, a non resident Alaskan guide can guide a hunter to a brown bear/grizzly but can’t legally kill one themselves unless with a guide.

 

[JimP]

Rather funny, a non resident Alaskan guide can guide a hunter to a brown bear/grizzly but can’t legally kill one themselves unless with a guide.

While I haven't looked into it I am sure that the Alaskan Game and Fish have some high requirements for a guide for bears. However I have never investigated it.

Much like the requirements for a PH in Africa.

 

[gbflyer]

While I haven't looked into it I am sure that the Alaskan Game and Fish have some high requirements for a guide for bears. However I have never investigated it.

Much like the requirements for a PH in Africa.

Not so much.

 

[wyosteve]

My spring 2023 brown bear had the remains of a moose calf in its belly and flying in we saw several bears trailing moose cows. I can understand the need for bear control as moose are a 'lifeline' for many Alaskan residents.

 

[JimP]

Not so much.

I was talking along the lines of being a resident or non resident

 

[Ryan]

A guided Alaskan moose hunt is astronomical too although I have a few friends who’ve done successful do it yourself moose hunts in Alaska hiring a transporter that is still a lot more reasonable. By law, a non resident must have a guide to hunt Alaskan brown bear/grizzly, sheep and goat.

A non resident can hunt Alaskan black bear, moose, caribou and deer. Perhaps the state should allow non resident hunting of brown bear and grizzly without a guide requirement? Of course a brown bear/grizzly are much larger and more temperamental than black bear yet there have been some predatory attacks by Alaskan black bear on people, in fact it seems more predatory attacks where humans are seen as food by black bear whereas the grizzly attacks are less often predatory, although a subject for a different thread I guess.

I don’t see this law changing anytime soon but it could help control the bear populations without the astronomical costs associated with the guided hunts.

Even resident fly-out trips have become rough. In 2021 I flew out of Fairbanks with a friend to the south side of the Brooks for Porcupine herd caribou, a 2 hour flight. It was $625/hr. In 2021 and in 2024 and that went up to $850/hr. And remember you pay for the pilots time both ways per trip. Assuming one trip in and one out with one caribou each it went from $2500/pp to $3400/ pp in 3 years. Add another animal and you'd need another meat flight out so two animals out was $3750/pp in 2021 and $5100/pp in '24. I don't know how many meat trips would be needed for a moose. Sadly I had to cancel my '24 trip and I doubt this is happening again at that cost. No idea of flying costs out of Togiak, but they won't be cheaper.

 

[WAB]

Even resident fly-out trips have become rough. In 2021 I flew out of Fairbanks with a friend to the south side of the Brooks for Porcupine herd caribou, a 2 hour flight. It was $625/hr. In 2021 and in 2024 and that went up to $850/hr. And remember you pay for the pilots time both ways per trip. Assuming one trip in and one out with one caribou each it went from $2500/pp to $3400/ pp in 3 years. Add another animal and you'd need another meat flight out so two animals out was $3750/pp in 2021 and $5100/pp in '24. I don't know how many meat trips would be needed for a moose. Sadly I had to cancel my '24 trip and I doubt this is happening again at that cost. No idea of flying costs out of Togiak, but they won't be cheaper.

Many don’t know this, but the refineries in Alaska cannot manufacture AvGas. We brought some in from as far away as Kansas when I was running a refinery up there. The cost is out of sight.

 

[pilar]

I was talking along the lines of being a resident or non resident

They are incredibly insane and insecure about bears and NR hunters
We had numerous nuisance bears frequent our camp near naknek ak , and couldn’t buy any permits , they killed them instead of letting two highly qualified and armed NR do it, making zero sense imo

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I agree, and this seems odd to me. IMO an interior bear, like what BJH65 shot, has a better hide and is a more interesting hunt. Here is a coastal bear my son shot on a run with our boat out of Valdez. Probably a similar sized animal but a much less desirable hide.

View attachment 660726

That is still a good looking bear, and dad appears to be carrying a much sexier rifle.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Using hunters for predator management isn't quite as simple as you make it out. Heck there was a whole thread on here talking how that didn't work for pigs, but let's stick with bears. First off, predator control/removal is about numbers. It's straight up population reduction. So they removed X amount of bears. Big ones, little one, either sex. That's not what sport hunters show up for, they show up for big males.
Next, the logistic, and this is even for a resident who doesn't live out there. I live in Anchorage, unlike someones comparison of Europe, which has roads everywhere. there is no roads from me to that region. None. And there's not much beyond village limits out there once I fly in, to say Togiak. So I have to get further transportation from there, none of which is cheap. Then let's face it, bears arent moose or caribou, which we'd all glady fill a freezer with year after year. How many people want more than one bear? Not many. Most people get one, maybe two, and we're good. It's not quite as simple anymore.

This, 110%... Hunters aren't making an appreciable dent.

The locals don't like bears at all really. They want them dead. Their only concern is having enough moose and caribou. But that's a whole separate different ballgame so I will stop right there. But Ryan hit it on the head.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I also think it helps protect no -residents from themselves. Hunting the wilderness of Alaska is in a different league than hunting wilderness areas in the lower 48. A hunt can turn into a life and death situation in a heartbeat.

This. I tell people that Alaska is incredibly beautiful but she is a merciless vengeful bitch. Do not turn your back on her or let your guard down. At its heart though, that's a part of the charm and mystique, IMHO.

 

[Foxi]

Yes. Tanzania. But I can’t afford it. I certainly don’t bitch about the prices they charge.

Ok .
But if prices are outrageous I am grown up enough to call them out as such .
After all, a backpacking tour is almost as nice

 

[375Fox]

This, 110%... Hunters aren't making an appreciable dent.

The locals don't like bears at all really. They want them dead. Their only concern is having enough moose and caribou. But that's a whole separate different ballgame so I will stop right there. But Ryan hit it on the head.

How many brown/grizzly bears do you kill yourself in the last year? Last 10 years? I’ll assume most local hunters won’t go out of their way to hunt brown bear because it provides no meat and isn’t worth the cost or time.

 

[375Fox]

I would like to read the annual tax return of an outfitter in Alaska as well as in Africa.
So that I learn to understand their whining about the costs they have
The prices in Alaska and the Yukon are largely the result of the suppliers.
One outfitter once complained that he had no income for half the year. When I told him he should try working the rest of the time like the rest of us, he got angry.
But that's the market, supply and demand.
Boat and horse hunts are expensive, but there are other ways.
Nobody can make me believe the big costs that a outfitter has, when I send a guest with a young guide to the Alaska Range with a mountaineering tent and astronaut food.
If a moose hunt on horseback in Alaska or Yukon costs me USD 30,000!!! and more until the trophy hangs at home, then you should shoot your own moose.
With all the price increases that are easy to follow, it is an absurd development.
Sorry for off topic.
Foxi

Telling an outfitter he should get a job like the rest of us to bring his prices down has to be one of the more arrogant things I’ve ever seen written here. The operating environment in Europe and Africa managed on a quota and long seasons is very different than the operating environment in North America managed on short seasons and tags to manage the harvest. These opportunities only exist because these guys don’t have jobs like the rest of us. For all the whining on this thread I haven’t seen a suggestion Germany open more non-resident hunting at lower pricing?

 

[375Fox]

That also an attitude thing, a difference in the mindset. For us European hunters, hunting is primarily a management tool for controlling the population. I primarily shoot the so called non trophy animals. Lots of females and fawns. Very seldom a trophy buck. If you want to control a population you have to shoot the adult females.

What you say is correct. Shooting adult males does not do a thing for population control.

I don’t think you can really compare Europe to a wilderness area in Alaska or northern Canada. They still have an ecosystem that is mostly intact. Wolves and bears and other predators would control populations without people present. A better answer would come from @Tundra Tiger but I’d suspect most local hunters are simply looking for legal meat animals for their freezers whether that is male or female not trophies. Farmland areas in the eastern and Midwest United States would compare much more to Europe. Most effective predators have been removed and farming conditions allow greater game populations than would likely have been historically present. There is a greater emphasis on trophies than local hunting in Europe but you’ll find the doe harvest will exceed the buck harvest from local hunters and available tags.

Also in the case of brown/grizzly bears shooting adult males likely helps the population to grow because they will kill cubs to breed with the female. I believe the cubs stay with mother at least two years.

 

[MedRiver]

A friend of a friend has an outfitting business in AK. In the last few years he aquired a concession (I am not sure if that is the correct terminology for AK) on the Peninsula. I can't remember the number he paid to acquire the rights to guide in the area but it was massive. So some of these operations have to figure out how to pay back hundreds of $Ks before they even even get the first fuel or transport bill. It keeps a big brown off my radar for now but I don't begrudge the guys getting it or paying it.

I do take some issue with the need to have a guide or next of kin for some species. Legally I can hunt with my Anchorage dwelling brother in law who has zero business hunting for, let alone showing someone else how to hunt, big bears, goats or sheep. However, I can't tag a brownie alongside my experienced DIY resident buddies who have as much or more experience than some of the "guides".

No system is perfect and I recognize that.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

How many brown/grizzly bears do you kill yourself in the last year? Last 10 years? I’ll assume most local hunters won’t go out of their way to hunt brown bear because it provides no meat and isn’t worth the cost or time.

I have killed 2 total in all my years, both medium sized bears. One was while bear hunting; the other a chance encounter while moose hunting.

I have spring bear hunted a bunch, more to just get out though I have been with several friends when they have killed bears.

I have 2 bucket list bears left, though they could wind up being the same bear. I want one large boar and I want one adult bear with my bow.

I have had 2 opportunities at really nice bears. On one it was my turn to shoot and I gave my shot to a friend who was probably never going to hunt bears again; he had missed one earlier in the day on his chance. It turned out to be just shy of 9'. The other was the old bruiser I let my daughter shoot. She was a last minute tagalong that day, or I would have killed that bear.

I have honestly been thinking about being a little less selective and trying to hunt bears more. Maybe this spring?

You are correct. Locals mostly just want them dead but have no interest in hunting or keeping them.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I haven't mentioned this before because I don't think it's germane to the original post, but most of the natives/locals here - and I only have experience with SW Alaska - have no regard for brown bears. They don't like them near towns because they are perceived as dangerous and destructive, and not many people hunt them. They are absolutely seen as a threat to caribou and moose. There are a fair amount of bears that are discreetly shot and disposed of when they get too close to towns and homes. I doubt those killings have any level of impact on actual populations but they do, IMHO, speak to the level of regard people have for them. My 2 cents from my corner of the world.

 

[gbflyer]

I haven't mentioned this before because I don't think it's germane to the original post, but most of the natives/locals here - and I only have experience with SW Alaska - have no regard for brown bears. They don't like them near towns because they are perceived as dangerous and destructive, and not many people hunt them. They are absolutely seen as a threat to caribou and moose. There are a fair amount of bears that are discreetly shot and disposed of when they get too close to towns and homes. I doubt those killings have any level of impact on actual populations but they do, IMHO, speak to the level of regard people have for them. My 2 cents from my corner of the world.

Same here.

 

[gbflyer]

Ok .
But if prices are outrageous I am grown up enough to call them out as such .
After all, a backpacking tour is almost as nice

One man’s outrageous is another man’s bargain. The worst hunting or fishing client in the world is the one who can’t afford to be there.