Accubonds/Partitions vs Scirocco/A-Frames

Csnakes03

AH member
Joined
Aug 7, 2024
Messages
29
Reaction score
75
Media
7
Hunting reports
Africa
2
I'm looking for some advice based on experience for those who have shot both at game, and also for those who have reloaded. I'm leaning towards the Nosler Accubonds over the Sciroccos just because they are heavier in the caliber I'm looking to reload (6.5PRC) but I'm torn between the other 2. From a design perspective it seems the Accubonds and Sciroccos will be better at longer ranges, but I dont really see a scenario where I would shoot anything beyond 400 yards, so does it matter? I had issues on 2 animals shot with the Berger 156g bullets on my last trip to Africa a month ago (didn't do well on a quartering away blesbok and basically failed on a quartering to shot on a Hartebeest resulting in me losing the animal..) and want to find a bonded bullet that will have good performance downrange.
Thanks!
 
Can’t beat the AFrame. Superior bullet performance and shoot very accurately out of 300wsm and 375H&H
 
Very few commercial bullets compare with the A Frames for big tough game, Nosler Partitions aren’t even close but also good for lesser work, biggest problem is cost & availablty.

Scirocco is also a very good bullet, not sure on the US but again availablty & cost is a factor here & the Accubonds normally do a very good job.

Just a matter of time before Bergers will let you down.

If targeting Wildebeest/Eland up I would look at the A Frames, not 100% necessary or even wanted on lesser animals.
 
I’ve had good results in my 6.5 PRC with the 130gr Terminal Ascent and 142gr ABLR. One shot kills on mnt caribou, Dall sheep, mulies, whitetail and antelope. Might be hard to find the TA for hand loading.
 
Very few commercial bullets compare with the A Frames for big tough game, Nosler Partitions aren’t even close but also good for lesser work, biggest problem is cost & availablty.

Scirocco is also a very good bullet, not sure on the US but again availablty & cost is a factor here & the Accubonds normally do a very good job.

Just a matter of time before Bergers will let you down.

If targeting Wildebeest/Eland up I would look at the A Frames, not 100% necessary or even wanted on lesser animals.
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I was leaning toward trying the A Frames for bigger stuff, and then the accubonds for "less tough" plains game, mainly because the accubonds are 140gr over the 130gr of the Sciroccos.
Hopefully my rifle likes both. It absolutely HATES hornady ammo (CX and eLDX rounds) but shoots the berger factory ammo sub-MOA and the "Barnes Harvest" just under 1 moa. I'm hoping with handloads I can find something of higher quality that also groups well with my rifle.
 
I think you’ll find that any and all of the bullets you mentioned will do an excellent job on any African plains game animal. My son and I have shot a good number of plains game with 150 grain Partitions in our 270’s and never once did we feel the need for more bullet. We’ve shot kudu, sable, zebras, topi, and lots of smaller stuff with that exact bullet and it all died quickly. Any of the other 3 mentioned would also be great. Find the bullet you like best and hunt with it knowing it’ll do its job well.
 
I’ve had accubonds do some funny things. I shot a mule deer with a 270 using 140gr accubonds. Distance was 150 yards and he was slightly quartering to me. The bullet somehow took a 75 degree turn after hitting the front leg bone and stayed along the onside ribs and stopped in the onside hind quarter. I was confused because it ran a lot farther than I expected (down into a canyon, of course). From the original angle and entrance, I was expecting to see an exit hole in the off-side ribs.

I shot a blacktail with a 165gr Accubond from a 308. Broadside at 50 yards, did not exit. Then I shot a much larger cow elk a few weeks later with the same rifle/load and it exited.

I’ve killed lots of stuff with Partitions. With the ones I’ve recovered, weight retention was around 60%. The front half is almost always gone and I’ve had the lead in the back half separate from the jacket and go who knows where. But, I think that’s why they kill so fast. Internal damage was always pretty significant. However, the 200gr 30 caliber partition is part of the reason I don’t shoot my 338 as much. It penetrates extremely well.
 
I'd look at Barnes TSX/TTSX, Hammer Hunters, CEB, Accubonds, or A-frames. Never used Sciroccos. You haven't listed anything terrible, so I'd pick the one your rifle shoots the best. I'm a big fan of monolithics, but they don't always shoot well in every rifle. My issue with Accubonds and Partitions comes from ghastly meat/cape destruction when used at high velocities. Maybe this isn't fair, as I was using them on pronghorn from a .257 Wby. Darn near cut the poor things in half.

I really, really like Bergers, and I use them in NA quite frequently, but I haven't felt a need to try them in Africa yet. Probably won't, either.

As has been said, for zebra, eland, or giraffe, I would use A-frames if I could get them and if they grouped well enough.
 
I'd look at Barnes TSX/TTSX, Hammer Hunters, CEB, Accubonds, or A-frames. Never used Sciroccos. You haven't listed anything terrible, so I'd pick the one your rifle shoots the best. I'm a big fan of monolithics, but they don't always shoot well in every rifle. My issue with Accubonds and Partitions comes from ghastly meat/cape destruction when used at high velocities. Maybe this isn't fair, as I was using them on pronghorn from a .257 Wby. Darn near cut the poor things in half.

I really, really like Bergers, and I use them in NA quite frequently, but I haven't felt a need to try them in Africa yet. Probably won't, either.

As has been said, for zebra, eland, or giraffe, I would use A-frames if I could get them and if they grouped well enough.
The TSX and TTSX are definitely on my list, since I'm in California and have to use "nontoxic" ammunition. The CX wont give me better than a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards, so hopefully the Barnes are better. That being said, my '06 shoots factory copper ammo quite well, and that's usually what I take hunting here stateside, its just a heavier rifle overall.
The berger ammo did great on perfect broadside shots on springbok and blesbok (drt) and the impala I shot that was facing me straight on, but I think the thinner jacket for "rapid expansion" is the downfall for an angled scenario. The blesbok I shot that was strongly quartering away had an exit wound from some part of the bullet about 6 inches in front of the entrance wound. Obviously the entire bullet didnt exit or that thing would have run off, but I should have realized right there that maybe I need to wait for "perfect" opportunities... I dunno. Just part of hunting I guess.
Thanks!
 
The TSX and TTSX are definitely on my list, since I'm in California and have to use "nontoxic" ammunition. The CX wont give me better than a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards, so hopefully the Barnes are better. That being said, my '06 shoots factory copper ammo quite well, and that's usually what I take hunting here stateside, its just a heavier rifle overall.
The berger ammo did great on perfect broadside shots on springbok and blesbok (drt) and the impala I shot that was facing me straight on, but I think the thinner jacket for "rapid expansion" is the downfall for an angled scenario. The blesbok I shot that was strongly quartering away had an exit wound from some part of the bullet about 6 inches in front of the entrance wound. Obviously the entire bullet didnt exit or that thing would have run off, but I should have realized right there that maybe I need to wait for "perfect" opportunities... I dunno. Just part of hunting I guess.
Thanks!

Have you considered the 127gr LRX? I was impressed with it on deer and feral pigs, and that was out of the slower 6.5 CM.
 
For the 6.5 PRC, here would be my personal criteria, based on your 400 yard no go line.

We have 3 problems with the scenario to get through.

1. What animals are the target? What it the terrain?

2. What is going to be your Impact Velocity under 100 yards, and your Impact Velocity 100-400 yards.

3. What is your desired outcome? Bullet exits, and lower probability of bang-flop? Or Bang flop and bullet doesn't exit?

Question 1.

All four of those bullets can survive a high impact velocity sub-100 yards, in any animal that walks

I never had a Scirocco that would shoot as well as the Accubonds. Even though Swift A-Frame is very popular on larger game in Africa, I don't see the necessity to use that kind of a bullet and I don't prefer an exit wound normally. We are talking normal plains game Zebra to DIKDIK range.

I have never killed an eland or a giraffe, but I think they are different. Killed hundreds of animals, with a lot of different bullets. Mostly out of Africa, but I have killed 24 African plains game animals as well.

So what are you wanting to kill, and where?

Question 2.

Every bullet has a designed impact velocity from the manufacture that they test at lots of distances. You want to be in that impact range of velocities with your bullet.

People talk about bullet failure all the time, but what they rarely consider is that it is not normally the bullets fault, it is normally operating at a less than optimal velocity when it impacts and has a "failure". Bullets have a design range, and keeping it in the design range is optimal.

You can call Nosler, Hornady, Barnes, Swift or anyone else and ask what the bullet impact velocity required for optimal work would be. Sometimes it is published, but not always.

Question 3.

I am a bang flop kind of guy. I like massive wound channels caused by Cup and Core bullets. You can achieve similar results with deformation (bonded or mono-metal bullets) at high speed.

Your four bullets the Accubond, Partition, Scirocco and A-Frame are not generally known for massive wound channels, but for either exit wounds or full penetration. High speed (sub-250 yards for the Accubond or Scirocco, and sub 140 yards (approximately) for the Partition and A-Frame will achieve a bigger wound channel.

Mon-Metal bullets like the CX and Barnes X series bullets among others must be driven at blistering. speed to achieve the same wound channel. They suffer at distances as they don't have the mass to continue through muscle, guts and bone. I have reasonably good experiences with the Barnes X at 350 yards at a 3300 Muzzle Velocity in a 300 Winchester in the 150 grain bullet. It is moving very well, but it is not as dramatic as a cup and core bullet at the same distance. That the cup and core bullet weighed 190 grains (Berger) shot placement was the same, animal was the same.

Last year I had typical Barnes X performance on 5 animals (bullet was an RWS HIT which is very similar) red stag, red hind, red spike, wild boar, fallow deer buck. All of them ran 40-100 meters. All of them in the lungs, one in the heart. Impact distance was 40 meters for the red spike, 80 meters for the stag, 100 meters for the hind, 200 meters for the fallow, and 60 meters for the boar. This was a 200 grain mono-metal bullet with a plastic tip, similar construction to the Barnes X or CX. In a 10,3x68 RWS (.413 bullet on a case that is mid-length between a 338 Winchester and a 416 Remington). So moving very fast! Every bullet exited, every animal ran minimum 40 meters, some ran 100 meters.

The year before I had the same exact experience on 2 fallow bucks and 3 roe bucks in a RWS HIT bullet scenario at similar impact velocities and with similar outcomes. Everything ran 40-100 meters.

I also shot 8 animals during the same period with the Hornady SST, and the RWS Speed Tip Professional. A red hind, a red spiker, a 3 fallow does, and 2 roe deer. Cup and core all the way. 100% bang flop or took two steps and died.

I have not used a bonded or formation bullet since I lived in Australia. I used to shoot the 168 Accubond in my 30-06 Tikka T3 Varmint. Shot hundreds of kangaroos with it, a few deer and a few pigs and used it to kill an injured bovine for a farmer. It shot very well, and on kangaroos it mostly gave a bang flop, but on deer and hogs they usually got 50-100 yards away.

When I think back of my hunting career of the past 38 years, I would 100% rather hunt with a cup and core bullet than a deformation bullet or a solid copper bullet.

Here in Germany we are stuck on federal lands with lead free bullets, but I really hate them.

At your distances I would select the bullet that shot best in my gun, with preference toward the heaviest bullet. As impact momentum will be better even if velocity is not.

Hornady loads a 143 ELD-X and a 129 SST in factory for that cartridge.

Nosler loads the 140 Grain grain accubond in factory ammo.

Swift does not load the Scirocco or A-Frame in the 6.5 PRC that I see.
 
The scirocco is a great bullet if you can get them to shoot accurately. They are great on elk out of a 7 mag. Always exit. Scirocco and A-frame retain 90% plus bullet weight. Accubond and Partition 70% or less. I have shot lots of deer and elk with the Accubond and love them both. Currently working up a load with 250 grain Accubond in 9.3 for an eland hunt. Good luck.
 
You have a 6.5 PRC why limit it with using the A Frame. The A frame is a great bullet but not designed for long range. The A frame expansion tops out at about 2300 fps with a BC of .401. The Scirocco provides nearly 100% retention and will reliably expand to below 2000 fps at a BC of .571.

The Scirocco is the most accurate of any of the bonded bullets I have reloaded for including Terminal Ascent, AccuBond and Fusion. The Terminal Ascent is a great choice but it can be finicky to load for and some rifles just dont like it. Because its inexpensive many people automatically discount the Federal Fusion but it is a great bonded bullet and very accurate as well.

The only issue with the all copper mono bullets is that you have to maintain velocity to ensure reliable expansion, anything under 2100 fps or so and expansion will be minimal. Any of the bonded bullets are a great choice but the Swift Scirocco 2 would be my #1 choice for a 6.5 PRC load. The A Frame is a little overkill for anything less than DG or big bears IMO.
 
IMO the 140 Partition is one of the best all-around bullets out there in 6.5mm. Even at 6.5x55 velocities I get great balance of penetration and expansion to 500 yards. Your PRC simply offers more of everything compared to the Swede.

Reasons? I think it's that the front of the partition bullet sheds weight on impact, sending shrapnel outward and offering comparable shock/trauma to a traditional cup and core bullet. In my experience the immediate effect on impact is more pronounced than say a Barnes or even a bonded lead-core bullet. The rear shank will have a smaller mushroom up front with less parachute effect, so despite losing some weight you still get deep penetration. The BC is still high enough to retain velocity to almost any reasonable hunting range. Close range impacts may disintegrate the front core but the rear will still give an exit, and low velocity impacts show good expansion. To me it is a "best of both worlds" bullet, despite being such an old design. Many of the bonded bullets that are designed for long range will expand very wide at high impact velocity and not exit, and the tougher bonded bullets often don't get much expansion at low impact velocity without hitting bone or dense muscle tissue.

In the larger bore diameters, I tend to prefer an Accubond, A-frame, or Mono, depending on the circumstances. But in the smaller bores I think the Partitions offer an advantage in wounding while preserving enough penetration for challenging angles.
 
Aframes over partitions

Accubonds over Sciroccos.
 
The scirocco is a great bullet if you can get them to shoot accurately. They are great on elk out of a 7 mag. Always exit. Scirocco and A-frame retain 90% plus bullet weight. Accubond and Partition 70% or less. I have shot lots of deer and elk with the Accubond and love them both. Currently working up a load with 250 grain Accubond in 9.3 for an eland hunt. Good luck.
I shoot 180gn sirroccos keep about .8 moa from an old remington all day. Why do you feel they have an issue shooting acuratly
 
The 6.5PRC is designed for long pointy bullets, so feed the poor thing the correct diet. TTSX, LRX, Scirocco or Accubond.

Clean the barrel properly before working up loads with mono’s.
They seem to prefer it that way.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
68,361
Messages
1,519,986
Members
152,747
Latest member
EEXDaniel
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

I am again looking for 600 Nitro dies preferably RCBS 1 inch. The set I purchased previously are 1 1/2 inch and do not fit my die. Another member has graciously taken them off my hands. If anyone happens to have a set of 600 Nitro Dies that will fit my Rockchucker Supreme RCBS press, please shoot me a message and thanks in advance for any assistance you may have to offer!
I have not posted any items for sale on this forum and will not every put anything for sale. My account was hacked and I've worked with the admin to get things shut down.
Paul K wrote on cgdemakis's profile.
Paul
CJNJ wrote on UNTAMED KNIVES's profile.
Still possible to order one of these?
 
Top