A Win for South African Hunters!

[C.W. Richter]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/oth...&cvid=ac7c4b2f6340473c9fe23bd219d5c719&ei=134

 

[Pheroze]

Wow, does anyone know the origin of this legislation? Why would they move to undo what is working so well?

 

[Flewis]

That will make some on the forum mad.

 

[R.M.C.]

Seems like a win to me, am I not understanding what is going on?

 

[Flewis]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

 

[Doug3006]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

Been a member awhile. I can’t recall reading anything that sounded like hate aimed at SA hunting in general. Certain practices there have drawn some criticism. Captive bred Lion hunting for example. I’d like to hear from anyone who thinks hunting should be stopped there.

 

[fourfive8]

Wow, does anyone know the origin of this legislation? Why would they move to undo what is working so well?

I have my suspicions as to the organ and the thinking behind it and it has nothing to do with free range vs high fence game or really even any kind of recreational or management hunting as we discuss here. Not being from RSA, I'll reserve my thoughts and suspicions.

 

[Flewis]

Hope I’m wrong and that you are right, but we have a FEW guys that bash SA every chance they get.

 

[R.M.C.]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

Good point, I definitely remember reading guys belittling south Africa and its hunting practices. I believe I've seen it referred to as Wal-Mart style hunting . I personally love South Africa and hope everything stays the way it is.

 

[375Fox]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

No one on this forum wants hunting to stop in South Africa. I’m sure I’m one of the “few members” you are referring to. I do hate several of the supposedly acceptable practices that occur there. I’d like a clearer separation between farming and hunting. I have no knowledge of this legislation. I don’t know if it’s a win for hunters without more information. It’s certainly a win for wildlife ranching.

 

[Doug3006]

Seems odd, given the crucial role SA played in saving safari hunting and the miraculous surge in wildlife populations there. So, to the SA haters, bring it. Let’s hear your opinions.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

You're assumption is incorrect, but understandable. The amount of vitriol against South African hunting would lead some people not informed on the subject to believe that there are hunters that actually hate the country's hunting industry and would love to see it closed down.

Much of the criticism is well-deserved, but a lot of it is completely ridiculous and misplaced. SOME, very well-known hunters, such as Peter Flack, will dunk on the country's hunting industry at any chance possible, with most of his critiques coming down to bias and a grossly inflated ego.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

I’m sure I’m one of the “few members” you are referring to.

Congrats on making the discussion about yourself, bro.

 

[Red Leg]

I don't believe anyone on this forum truly "hates" the South African hunting model. Like any industry anywhere, South African ranch hunting has its paragons and villains. Fortunately, the former seem to significantly outnumber the latter.

I won't speak for Europe, but I think many of us here in Texas have a clearer appreciation of where the discussion, even arguments, arise than many. Here too, wildlife ranching is a big business. Behind the high fences of the Hill Country, a paying customer can hunt anything from a 135 class management whitetail to a 250 inch frankendeer to a bongo and nearly everything in between. Those ranches have been responsible for the resurgence of rare species such as the scimitar horned ibex which is flourishing both on high-fenced and free range ranches. On those high fenced ranches, those animals can be hunted under challenging conditions or in "pastures" so small as to make a mockery of the word hunt.

The same is true in South Africa. There are wonderful ranches of sufficient acreage to far exceed the natural range of the game they hold. There are others that may offer a hippo in a stock tank. Captive bred lions are a subject unto themselves.

Like Texas, the game ranches in South Africa provide access to animals that would otherwise require multiple safaris to multiple regions of Africa. Many American hunters never realize that hunting a red lechwe, waterbuck, sable or nyala in the high desert of the Limpopo is a bit like hunting an elk in the Hill Country. Also, if one has a free range concession in Mozambique with indigenous Nyala and Sable, or one in Zambia with some of the largest sable in Africa, competing with a ranch in South Africa can be frustrating. That sometimes leaks into conversations here.

But I am confident that all recognize the net value the South African model has provided both the international hunting community and the animals themselves. It is likely the best place to go for someone's first or only trip to Africa. One has options from boutique hotel class lodges to tented camps that offer not only Wi-Fi and running water, but also a sense of what it might have been like to hunt East Africa between the wars. More importantly, a high volume South African hunt can ignite a passion to explore African game hunting in its indigenous habitats across the continent.

My last buffalo hunt was in the Limpopo. It was a very positive hunting experience - so much so, that I wrote an article about it. One simply has to dedicate the due diligence to insure that the hunting environment meets ones personal requirements for fair chase.

 

[Flewis]

PC73, you are much closer to this than most of us. Hunting in Africa is attacked on so many fronts it just burns me when it comes from within our ranks. I just can’t think why it’s done. Any ideas on the reason?

 

[BRICKBURN]

https://www.sanews.gov.za/south-africa/creecy-withdraws-tops-regulations

https://www.dffe.gov.za/mediarelease/creecy_withdrawalgovernmentnotices

 

[wesheltonj]

Here is a primer on TOPS, it’s really just a permit system (tax). https://www.trophy-care.com/tops/

 

[ActionBob]

No you are right, we have a few members who hate South Africa and seems they would love see hunting stopped there. Maybe I’m wrong, hope I am.

You are wrong and apparently just do not understand.

It isn't the game farming per say. Certainly not the hunting nor even the shooting (small pen can't not get the animal "hunting"). I don't begrudge anyone of doing that if it is what they want. Just don't try to tell me it is the same as hunting a million acres in Tanzania or one of the other real wild places.

It is the constant flow of BS that is driveled about by so many. Trying to make things what they are not.

Thankfully there are many times more good operators than bad in South Africa. But the bad do spoil it for the good, at least to some degree.... Obviously as this seems to be what you are really referring to.

I absolutely love a lot about South Africa. And I truly enjoy hunting there. With the right operators for certain species. And the ones who are not bullshitting me or outright lying. Unfortunately still too many are far too careless with the truth.

That is the issue. I would absolutely not want to see South African hunting stopped. I would like to see the industry continue to police itself and call attention to the bad operators and encourage those that walk the line to improve.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

You are wrong and apparently just do not understand.

It isn't the game farming per say. Certainly not the hunting nor even the shooting (small pen can't not get the animal "hunting"). I don't begrudge anyone of doing that if it is what they want. Just don't try to tell me it is the same as hunting a million acres in Tanzania or one of the other real wild places.

It is the constant flow of BS that is driveled about by so many. Trying to make things what they are not.

Thankfully there are many times more good operators than bad in South Africa. But the bad do spoil it for the good, at least to some degree.... Obviously as this seems to be what you are really referring to.

I absolutely love a lot about South Africa. And I truly enjoy hunting there. With the right operators for certain species. And the ones who are not bullshitting me or outright lying. Unfortunately still too many are far too careless with the truth.

That is the issue. I would absolutely not want to see South African hunting stopped. I would like to see the industry continue to police itself and call attention to the bad operators and encourage those that walk the line to improve.

Very very true on the broad this can be applied to any African country. I was taught by the school of hard knocks.
Got smoked in Tanzania.
Got hammered in Zim.
Robbed initially in MOZ. Prior to settling on a great area.
Tarred with a broad brush in SA.

Put and take operations and CBL gave SA a terrible reputation, but let’s not forget who started CBL a country just north of SA…over Beitbridge (during the late 80’s and early 90’s…. )
This all fell apart when reappropriating land without compensation was passed by the government in this country which completely destroyed the fast growing game ranch industry.

I for one do not support the Walmart style hunting that some operators promote or use as a business model in SA, nor do I part take in such a practice.
On the broad I believe it is bad for the entire industry.
But then again so are Wilderness operators that do not reinvest in the areas they operate on.
In short, I do not believe it is a matter of fenced or not fenced, but rather a matter of how operators conduct themselves and their businesses to enhance the areas, reserves, ranches, communal areas, national parks lands they occupy…..

The TOPS or proposed regulations mentioned herein would have listed Blesbok, blue wildebeest and 1 or two others on a permitting system whilst removing Sharpes Grysbuck and Common Reedbuck.

This whole move made zero sense as two species that requires constant conservation efforts due to habitat loss are removed and a non native invasive species in Limpopo (Blesbuck) replaces one and Wildebeest and Sable the others….
This was never about permitting (controlled off take) but an attempt to raise money by a corrupt government sector.
That is all that needs to be said. In short, a win, in terms of defeating idiocy on governments behalf

TOPS (threatened or protected species permit….)

Absolutely asinine officials.

My best always.

 

[PhotoCollector73]

Just don't try to tell me it is the same as hunting a million acres in Tanzania or one of the other real wild places.

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Hard to take your comment seriously when you blatantly ignore all the information that is out there. Typical