A buffalo hunt with a 10mm

CoElkHunter

AH legend
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,289
Reaction score
4,183
Location
Colorado
Media
19
Dobb's was hunting in Zimbabwe when he shot the buffalo with the 10mm.

Here is a question and answer interview that he did on the hunt.

VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.
 

JimP

AH legend
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
2,471
Reaction score
3,631
Location
Gypsum, Co
Media
46
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NRA, RMEF
Hunted
US (Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Nevada. Canada (British Colombia), South Africa (Eastern Cape)
VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.
The big thing is bullet selection
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
1,401
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
2
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.
Well lets face it, a 9mm hardball round massively out penetrates a .308 150 grain soft point, but lets not put them in the same "effectiveness" category. People are impressed by penetration of these "puny" rounds, but a low velocity, small pistol round isn't pushing a lot out of its way as it goes through.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a solid from a .375 still causes a lot of cavitation as it passes though tissue and bone at 2x the speed of sound and damages tissues beyond the passage of the bullet. All that takes much more energy. All a 10mm has to do is punch a tiny hole through and it does that just fine. 700ft-lbs doesnt get burned up quick punching little holes even through bone. People are impressed when I show them that my 85 ft-lb .25 FX Impact will punch through 2 inches of wood at 75 yards. Same principle though. Not a surprise really that it made it through. Phil Schumaker had similar performance from a 3" 9mm shooting hard cast 147 grain bullets into a large brown bear that attacked some of his fly fishing clients. Killed the bear dead.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...ls-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/amp/

While it will penetrate, it would definitely not be my first choice. Better than a sharp stick and probably would be a pretty good "sleeping tent gun" in lion territory or if an animal was on top of you. (though personally I like my .45 super more than my previous 10mm). It works, yes. But a sharp stick does too. Its what you poke it through that counts. Just dont have bad poking aim or you could get people killed.
 
Last edited:

Hunter4752001

AH enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
338
Reaction score
667
Location
Australia
Media
1
Put the data into a ballistic calculator. At that distance it would have only lost around 150 fps. The 3 keys to handgun hunting are: placement, bullet design and stalking in close (ie actually hunting).

A 10mm wouldn't be my first choice, but I won't join the antis lining up to criticize.
 

CoElkHunter

AH legend
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,289
Reaction score
4,183
Location
Colorado
Media
19
Well lets face it, a 9mm hardball round massively out penetrates a .308 150 grain soft point, but lets not put them in the same "effectiveness" category. People are impressed by penetration of these "puny" rounds, but a low velocity, small pistol round isn't pushing a lot out of its way as it goes through.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a solid from a .375 still causes a lot of cavitation as it passes though tissue and bone at 2x the speed of sound and damages tissues beyond the passage of the bullet. All that takes much more energy. All a 10mm has to do is punch a tiny hole through and it does that just fine. 700ft-lbs doesnt get burned up quick punching little holes even through bone. People are impressed when I show them that my 85 ft-lb .25 FX Impact will punch through 2 inches of wood at 75 yards. Same principle though. Not a surprise really that it made it through. Phil Schumaker had similar performance from a 3" 9mm shooting hard cast 147 grain bullets into a large brown bear that attacked some of his fly fishing clients. Killed the bear dead.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...ls-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/amp/
It is very interesting! I know a guy that shot and killed a black bear from 15 yards with a 9mm using 124gr. Remington Golden Sabre hollow points. It took several shots though. The bear was attacking a neighbor's goat named Hercules. Maybe the original advertisement for the Savage .250-3000 cartridge using a 87gr. bullet that could "kill almost any game on the planet" was more truth than advertisement? Has more ft lbs of energy than a 10mm? Ha! Ha! Ha!
 

Thumper Mcgee

AH veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
151
Reaction score
181
Member of
NRA
Hunted
U.S
VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.
he used DoubleTap Ammunition 200 grain HardCast ammo for the hunt https://doubletapammo.com/products/10mm-200gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds
Glock 20, 1300fps, 25 Yard Zero, 6000ft Elivation, .75" Sight Height, Bullet BC: .194, 10mph Cross WindåÊ
(yd)(in)(MOA)(in)(MOA)(ft/s)(none)(ft‰ۢlbs)(s)(in)(MOA)
RangeDropDropWindageWindageVelocityMachEnergyTimeLeadLead
Calculated Table
0-0.8***0.0***1307.51.196759.00.0000.0***
25-0.0-0.00.20.81253.31.146697.40.05910.339.4
50-0.6-1.20.91.71203.41.101643.00.12021.140.2
75-2.8-3.52.02.51157.91.059595.30.18332.341.1
100-6.5-6.23.53.31117.21.022554.20.24943.941.9
125-12.0-9.25.44.11081.10.989519.00.31755.942.7
150-19.4-12.37.74.91049.30.960488.90.38868.343.5
175-28.7-15.710.45.71021.20.934463.00.46081.044.2
200-40.1-19.113.46.4996.00.911440.50.53594.144.9
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.47 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.47 AM.png
    971.3 KB · Views: 17
  • Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.48 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.48 AM.png
    437.5 KB · Views: 10
  • Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.50 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.50 AM.png
    329 KB · Views: 8
  • Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.51 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-06-03 at 11.08.51 AM.png
    391.8 KB · Views: 16

1dirthawker

AH fanatic
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
700
Reaction score
1,341
Media
13
Articles
2
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
i have seen the video before, and i gotta admit, i was surprised and impressed. keep in mind, ft lbs or joules of energy do not necessarily kill things, long holes thru vitals kills things.

shooting a cape buffalo with a 10mm is a bit of a stunt, however, koromojo bell shot them with 7mm solids out of his beloved 7x57 all the time. and had no backup, and did not appear to feel concerned about doing the deed.

archers kill cape buffalo with sub 100 ft lbs of energy all the time. with an arrow it is about the methodology of the broad head. still, not much energy hitting the animal.

a 10mm/40 cal is larger than a solid 7mm or 375 bullet as well. and close to the diameter of a 375 barnes bullet i saw pulled from a buffalo. don't misunderstand me, i don't think the 10mm is a buffalo gun, shooting a buffalo with one is a bit of a stunt, i think long term, if one hunted buffalo or lion with a 10mm handgun with no backup (like 5 hunts) something would go bad and you would end up in a hospital bed/or dead.

i think tracking lions and shooting them with a bow is the same kind of stunt. a bowhunter without back up will not survive 5 hunts of that type on a lion. the lion will turn and kill you before he possibly dies of his injuries. so, kind of a stunt in my mind.

also like some people shooting very small calibers at dangerous game, a stunt.

as mr hobbs proved once again....shot placement is everything.
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
1,401
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
2
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
i have seen the video before, and i gotta admit, i was surprised and impressed. keep in mind, ft lbs or joules of energy do not necessarily kill things, long holes thru vitals kills things.

shooting a cape buffalo with a 10mm is a bit of a stunt, however, koromojo bell shot them with 7mm solids out of his beloved 7x57 all the time. and had no backup, and did not appear to feel concerned about doing the deed.

archers kill cape buffalo with sub 100 ft lbs of energy all the time. with an arrow it is about the methodology of the broad head. still, not much energy hitting the animal.

a 10mm/40 cal is larger than a solid 7mm or 375 bullet as well. and close to the diameter of a 375 barnes bullet i saw pulled from a buffalo. don't misunderstand me, i don't think the 10mm is a buffalo gun, shooting a buffalo with one is a bit of a stunt, i think long term, if one hunted buffalo or lion with a 10mm handgun with no backup (like 5 hunts) something would go bad and you would end up in a hospital bed/or dead.

i think tracking lions and shooting them with a bow is the same kind of stunt. a bowhunter without back up will not survive 5 hunts of that type on a lion. the lion will turn and kill you before he possibly dies of his injuries. so, kind of a stunt in my mind.

also like some people shooting very small calibers at dangerous game, a stunt.

as mr hobbs proved once again....shot placement is everything.
Shot placement IS everything... but humans are not infallible so margin for error is very important. I agree with you. It is definitley a stunt. If he kept doing over and over, every time, his odds of it catching up to him or one of his poor PHs or... heaven forbid a wounded buff gets away... some poor villager, keep increasing. All it would take is a mild lapse of concentration or an invisible stick in the way to eat up that margin of error real quick and then hope another shot presents itself.

It doesnt take many foot pounds of energy to kill. Im sure a few ft-lbs is all it would take to drive a razor sharp broadhead through an elephant's hide and muscle, slip between some ribs and puncture the heart to eventually kill the largest land animal alive today. But margin for error is practically nothing. Simply a stunt to prove you can kill a dangerous animal with a sharp stick if push comes to shove, but not an idea that many people repeatedly duplicate and still get to die of old age in their bed.
 

CoElkHunter

AH legend
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,289
Reaction score
4,183
Location
Colorado
Media
19
Now here's a Buffalo pistol! Must be cause it’s evidently the “Hunting Handgun of the Year”! Ha! Ha! Ha!

0F6768CE-90AF-4F25-A7D4-1F06FEDC9C3C.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

IvW

AH legend
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
7,499
Location
South Africa
Media
62
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
BASA, CHASA
Hunted
South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia,Zambia
Another wanna betv personality.....I think he wounded and lost 2 or 3 buffalo before.....
 

CoElkHunter

AH legend
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3,289
Reaction score
4,183
Location
Colorado
Media
19
Another wanna betv personality.....I think he wounded and lost 2 or 3 buffalo before.....
Yeah, I think it's ludicrous! I personally would no more hunt a buffalo with a 10mm (and probably any handgun) than fly to OZ in a hang glider! But, to each their own.
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
1,401
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
44
Articles
2
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
And to the outfitters that provide such hunts.
There's no doubt he was backed by someone with a very large gun. Not dissimilar from journalists who take one flight in a jet aircraft then claims they flew a fighter jet when they had the 20 year veteran pilot in the seat behind them doing 98% of the work but let them steer for 30 seconds.
 

crs

AH elite
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
1,155
Reaction score
1,762
Location
Republic of Texas
Website
sheltontechnologies.com
Media
6
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
CRS, NRA Patron Member, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Hunted
RSA
As some of you already know, Mike Rintoul ,owner of Grizzly Cartridge, hunts with rifles and hand guns with his ammo. IIRC, he has done this twice with handguns in Africa. He regularly shoots game in USA with them. Mike accompanied a friend (Joe) and I to a hunt on a part of a well known Central Texas Ranch a few years ago. Mike with 10 mm pistol Joe with muzzle loader went off and shot some deer and exotics while my guide took me for a ride looking for Axis doe. I shot two feral hogs with my .308 and wounded and lost an Axis doe.
Our post hunt analysis concluded that my frontal facing shot that knocked the Axis down was too high for the heart and too low for the spine - never argue with PH (Joe).
Shot placement rules.
 

Probono

AH veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
110
Reaction score
192
Media
1
Hunted
Kenya, South Africa, Zim, Uganda, USA
Early man used to kill mammoths using nothing but sharpened sticks, so to kill a buffalo using a 10mm is very believable and nowhere near as impressive.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
38,205
Messages
734,926
Members
69,039
Latest member
KristeenNa
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Eastern Cape Hunting Report Coming soon...
Jaynecobb wrote on cal pappas's profile.
I hate to bother you....I own 2 of your books including British bore rifle. I was hoping you might have more 10 bore loads. For the heavier and later rifles. Any help would be appreciated.
Gert Odendaal wrote on Av8or's profile.
Good day , Do you still have .375 H&H Magnum brass available to sell?
tarbe wrote on PatrickMa Ward's profile.
Aha....I see you have a new Avatar!!

Nice bull!
flatwater bill wrote on KHOMAS HIGHLAND HUNTING SAFARIS's profile.
I hope your hunting season has started off well. I am coming to Namibia for the 7th time in late April of 2022. I am bringing two friends who have never hunted outside of the USA. I have several questions, but before I write them all, I will wait to see if you receive this. Please give a shout................................best regards.........................Bill...............Idaho, USA
 
Top