4th shot a flyer

[Pheroze]

I loaded up 180gr CEB Maximus for my 308 Norma Mag. At 100 yards a three shot group was about 0.9". I decided to see is the Lee crimp die would change it. I loaded two 5 shot sets, one crimped and one not. Interestingly, overall the uncrimped was better. But, with both groups the 4th shot was almost a inch off, expanding the largest overall group size to almost 2". With both groups the 5th shot was back within the less than 1" cluster.

Is this 4th shot more likely me consistently flinching after repeated shots, and then getting a grip for the last shot. Or, would an unbalanced load behave in this manner?

I am inclined to believe it is me. And, this makes me wonder if even the smaller spread is only as big as it is because of my technique. The group nicely frames my point of aim.

 

[wswolf]

In bolt-action rifles I have eliminated irritating and inexplicable fliers by free-floating the magazine box. It might be worth a try in your case.

 

[Pheroze]

In bolt-action rifles I have eliminated irritating and inexplicable fliers by free-floating the magazine box. It might be worth a try in your case.

That's interesting, I have never heard of a free-floating the magazine. The barrel is a good one and free-floated. I will look into that, thanks.

 

[Shootist43]

Pheroze, have you ever checked your reloads for "concentricity? I used a Hornady Concentricity Gage on all of the ammo I took to Africa. For target shooting and local hunting I do the following: I partially seat the bullet then lower the ram, I then rotate the case 180 degrees and fully seat the bullet. Doing this will "split" any non conformance in half. Nathan Foster does a very good job of explaining (yaw) in his book, The Practical Guide to Reloading.

 

[baxterb]

These “x-shot”‘ issues are interesting. The rifle doesn’t know which shot it is. So ask yourself, “what has changed between the 4th shot and the 5th ( the next ‘ 1st’) shot. If you shoot 4x then wait between salvos, barrel temp is a potential change. If it’s a heavy kicker, the break might ‘reset’ your recoil tolerance.

As far as seating/crimping, when I seat bullets I always seat once, then rotate the case, seat again, then do it again. The same goes for crimping. The theory is to mitigate any potential variables with the bullet nose and seater, etc. No idea if it really doesn’t anything, but I don’t really have x-shot issues. When I shoot from a bench, I go very slow and methodically.

 

[Pheroze]

: I partially seat the bullet then lower the ram, I then rotate the case 180 degrees and fully seat the bullet. Doing this will "split" any non conformance in half

I am going to try this, thanks.

 

[JimP]

You can also try waiting 5 minutes between shots and see what happens.

I also agree with it has to do with the barrel heating.

I have a old 06 that will place the first two shots within a inch of each other, the third will be out to 6" and the fourth will be a who knows where. This is due to the barrel wear and the heating of the barrel. If I wait that 5 minutes between shots all of them will go into the 1" group.

 

[baxterb]

@Pheroze - I should have been more explicit - I do as @Shootist43 - a partial seat before rotating the case and final seating.

 

[Pheroze]

@Pheroze - I should have been more explicit - I do as @Shootist43 - a partial seat before rotating the case and final seating.

Yes, I understood the same technique. And I appreciate the advice, thanks

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

What brand of brass are you using?

 

[Pheroze]

What brand of brass are you using?

Norma.

 

[baxterb]

Yes, I understood the same technique. And I appreciate the advice, thanks

just remembered a funny story about this…My brother is a real nit-picky guy and likes to worry about every little thing. He told me I should measure the confentricy of my reloads with his tool, just to see how “out” they might be. I told him, “nah” I think everything is fine using my reloading technique” since my results seemed great. The next time he came over he brought the tool anyway and we checked 40rds each of 270 and 338 - all were spot on. He took the tool home and that was the end of that! Ha!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Norma.

I’d say that eliminates the brass. They make great cases.

 

[C.W. Richter]

So long as you kill what you're shooting at by your 3rd shot (and even then if you miss, shoot the 4th into the ground and use the 5th!) you should be good! Sometimes bullet compression occurs in heavy-recoiling guns (in the mag, but if that were the case I'd expect your 5th round to be off as well!) I generally take 3 shots, then let the gun cool down (and for test purposes, sometimes boresnake between 3 shot groups while it's cooling!) That 4th shot walking in a hunting situation isn't likely going to be a real-world issue.

 

[Pheroze]

So long as you kill what you're shooting at by your 3rd shot (and even then if you miss, shoot the 4th into the ground and use the 5th!) you should be good! Sometimes bullet compression occurs in heavy-recoiling guns (in the mag, but if that were the case I'd expect your 5th round to be off as well!) I generally take 3 shots, then let the gun cool down (and for test purposes, sometimes boresnake between 3 shot groups while it's cooling!) That 4th shot walking in a hunting situation isn't likely going to be a real-world issue.

Very true. I was just frustrated with the odd flyer.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Also, consider putting every 4th loose bullet into a separate container (they should all group together well, right?) Are the strays going a particular direction? The direction of bullet twist (typ RH) and the grip (or lack thereof,) and flinching all by RH shooters can make a flyer go to the same spot nearly every time. Did the wind temporarily kick up on that 4th shot? So many variables. Do you tend to look at AH when preparing ev 4th handload??

 

[Alistair]

I loaded up 180gr CEB Maximus for my 308 Norma Mag. At 100 yards a three shot group was about 0.9". I decided to see is the Lee crimp die would change it. I loaded two 5 shot sets, one crimped and one not. Interestingly, overall the uncrimped was better. But, with both groups the 4th shot was almost a inch off, expanding the largest overall group size to almost 2". With both groups the 5th shot was back within the less than 1" cluster.

Is this 4th shot more likely me consistently flinching after repeated shots, and then getting a grip for the last shot. Or, would an unbalanced load behave in this manner?

I am inclined to believe it is me. And, this makes me wonder if even the smaller spread is only as big as it is because of my technique. The group nicely frames my point of aim.

I reckon it's probably you.

It it was inconsistency in the reloads, it's unlikely that it'd be every 4th round that'd be way off, more likely just random flyers at inconsistent intervals.

For the magazine thing, try single loading for your next step of group, see if it still happens.

Other than that, 5 round groups are generally a better measure of 'true' accuracy than 3, but it'd again be weird for the 4th to consistently wonder.

Maybe a psychological thing? If you normally do 3 round groups you might mentally see the task as 'complete', and do a half assed effort on round 4? I've seen weirder things...

 

[Hogpatrol]

Have someone else shoot the same loads.

 

[Firebird]

I’m having the same problem. I figured it to be a seating issue on my end. But I’ve also questioned barrel vibration. I’m not patient but will have to wait five minutes in between shots and see what happens. Some good suggestions I can try-thanks to all

 

[JimP]

You would think that if it was from different cases, loads, or other things that you do with loading a cartridge it should show up in all the loads and not just the fourth one