450/400 3"

[mitch4570]

Okay I'm thinking about buying a double rifle maybe 450 / 400 3" inch. I have Watch the videos of cape buffalo shot with this caliber. Before I buy I thought maybe some of the members could share their experience with shooting Cape buffalo with this particular caliber.
I am scheduled to hunt cape buffalo in April 2027.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Cme1983]

Great caliber with mild recoil…I doubt any member that owns will have anything bad to say about it

 

[sgt_zim]

Don't own one, trying to coach my son in that direction, though.

What's not to like about a 400 gr bullet with an SD of .325 at 2100 fps, and only a bit more thump on the back end than a 375H&H? If I were in the market for a double, that's the direction I'd take.

If a 9.3x62 will do the job on M'bogo (Kevin Robertson killed more than 600 with that caliber), a 450/400 is so much the better.

 

[Rare Breed]

Okay I'm thinking about buying a double rifle maybe 450 / 400 3" inch. I have Watch the videos of cape buffalo shot with this caliber. Before I buy I thought maybe some of the members could share their experience with shooting Cape buffalo with this particular caliber.
I am scheduled to hunt cape buffalo in April 2027.
Thanks in advance!

My first Cape Buff taken with a Chapuis Elan in 450-400 NE using Hornady DGX Bonded bullets. outstanding easy recoil sweet shooting rifle. Can you even take elephant with it, yes of course much better calibers for that. is it a stopping caliber, no but it is the perfect caliber for buff

 

[Rare Breed]

I bought mine NIB for $13k from Champlain which given their lifetime warranty and they will cut stock to perfect LOP for you would be the place to buy with George Caswell

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

My Heym 89b is in 450/400. It is accurate and not at all heavy on recoil. The first animal to fall to it was a bush pig, one of a sounder that we stumbled upon. In daylight and I swung on it as it scampered. The second was an impala and finally a big bodied Buffalo bull that crumpled soon after the first shot. To me it is the perfect client DG calibre.

 

[Franco]

Like Kevin, I also have a Heym 89B 450/400; purchased and used on my first safari in 2018. I shot 4 cape buffalo with it. Since then I have used it on 3 elephants, a rhino, giraffe, zebra, camels, donkeys, water buffalo, banteng, more cape buffalo, and about a half dozen sharks (don't ask)

It is both fun and effective. My choice for ammo is custom from Safari Arms. 2 years ago I stopped a charging elephant with 1 shot - center brain, at very close range. If you're considering a double, you're talking close range - whichever make you choose, it has to fit and you have to be comfortable shooting it. It needs to shoulder and be right on target - read some of the threads on animal speeds and rate of closure. A charging buffalo is not going to wait for you to adjust your sight picture.

I'm sure Kevin can elaborate on this for you.

 

[Javaman]

Another consideration is a Ruger No 1in 450/400 3”, which can be had for $2k-Ish.

Makes for a great intro to the caliber and they are great looking!

I’m taking mine to Limpopo for Cape buffalo in 3 weeks. My PH is excited!

Rifle shoots sub MOA with my hand loads (CEB 370 Raptors and 400 Solids).

I inserted an 8oz Mercury reducer in the stock (existing 7/8” bolt hole makes this really easy) which settled the rifle down some.

I would consider the caliber in a double rifle if Chapuis does it in their proposed sub-$10k “PG” double.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

@Javaman please keep us informed on your upcoming Buffalo hunt, I took my first Buffalo with a Ruger No1 in 375 H&H.

 

[Javaman]

Hey Thanks, will do! Got clothes sprayed with Permethrin today, made a bunch of paperwork copies for various authorities, all the cartridges are loaded and ready, guns shooting sub-MOA … just waiting on the 19th to jump off!

 

[Altitude sickness]

Like Kevin, I also have a Heym 89B 450/400; purchased and used on my first safari in 2018. I shot 4 cape buffalo with it. Since then I have used it on 3 elephants, a rhino, giraffe, zebra, camels, donkeys, water buffalo, banteng, more cape buffalo, and about a half dozen sharks (don't ask)

It is both fun and effective. My choice for ammo is custom from Safari Arms. 2 years ago I stopped a charging elephant with 1 shot - center brain, at very close range. If you're considering a double, you're talking close range - whichever make you choose, it has to fit and you have to be comfortable shooting it. It needs to shoulder and be right on target - read some of the threads on animal speeds and rate of closure. A charging buffalo is not going to wait for you to adjust your sight picture.

I'm sure Kevin can elaborate on this for you.

So Franco, what your saying is your still undecided on if the 450/400 is sufficient

 

[Franco]

So Franco, what your saying is your still undecided on if the 450/400 is sufficient

Who's side are you on - mine or my wife's?

It really is tough to argue against the 450/400. The only time it failed to stop an elephant on the first shot was because I was just a bit off the mark. It was actually that scenario which led me to consider the 500NE. I don't know if it would have made a difference with my first shot; the old bull was smashing his way through thick brush and trees and closing the distance, I fired at center front brain - but he was moving his head from side-to-side and the bullet struck just off center. It knocked him back but he regained his footing and charged towards the PH and myself.

I could be completely wrong, but my thinking is - to be effective with a 450/400 in close quarters with an elephant, it's got to be a brain shot - and that's a very small target. A 500NE might provide the option of breaking a shoulder or a hip.

Don't really know if that's right, but it sounded good when I explained it that way to my wife. The, "Honey - we're talking about my safety" was a nice touch, I thought.

I'm going on a leopard hunt next month in Moz, taking the 450/400 - I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Philip Glass]

Okay I'm thinking about buying a double rifle maybe 450 / 400 3" inch. I have Watch the videos of cape buffalo shot with this caliber. Before I buy I thought maybe some of the members could share their experience with shooting Cape buffalo with this particular caliber.
I am scheduled to hunt cape buffalo in April 2027.
Thanks in advance!

I have taken buffalo both with .470 and .450/400 with my Kreighoff double. There is no doubt there is true satisfaction in stomping a buffalo with a double and there is little difference between these two practically speaking. Certainly the .470 is more powerful. My problem is that I have neck trouble and range sessions with the .470 really cause me problems. With the .450/400 I can shoot from the bench and sight in my optic and can just shoot more rounds per range session. It may have less recoil than my .375!
If I choose to shoot the .470 barrels again it will likely be open sighted.
On the buffalo hunt there is not going to be a difference.
Side Note: when I was originally shopping for a Double Tim Fallon of FTW Ranch and SAAM Shooting School recommended the .450/400. I came to his way of thinking after a while!

 

[Franco]

I have taken buffalo both with .470 and .450/400 with my Kreighoff double. There is no doubt there is true satisfaction in stomping a buffalo with a double and there is little difference between these two practically speaking. Certainly the .470 is more powerful. My problem is that I have neck trouble and range sessions with the .470 really cause me problems. With the .450/400 I can shoot from the bench and sight in my optic and can just shoot more rounds per range session. It may have less recoil than my .375!
If I choose to shoot the .470 barrels again it will likely be open sighted.
On the buffalo hunt there is not going to be a difference.
Side Note: when I was originally shopping for a Double Tim Fallon of FTW Ranch and SAAM Shooting School recommended the .450/400. I came to his way of thinking after a while!

Comparing the 450/400 to the 470 - regarding recoil, what I have found, my Heym 450/400 has more of a push directly back into my shoulder with minimal barrel rise allowing me to stay on target for the second shot. I do not own a 470 because of the ones I've shot, they all seem more "snappy" with marked barrel rise. I'm 5'11", 200lbs, and 72 years old - someone younger and bigger might have more resistance against the barrel rise.
The weight and it's distribution make a big difference.

 

[Javaman]

In addition to weight, gun fit, single shot vs double rifle, etc is the often overlooked skill of properly mounting and holding a larger caliber rifle on the sticks or offhand. I find my 450/400 3” Ruger No 1 has a lot more felt recoil if I forget to grip it firmly and really pull it into my shoulder. The same is true for me with my .416 RM and .375 H&H (both bolt guns). If I do it correctly the 450/400 3” is not sharp or snappy at all and I’m better able to reload and get back on target. Desert dog on YouTube has a pretty good video about how to mount and hold a larger caliber caliber rifle - made a big difference for me.

 

[1dirthawker]

i have shot exactly ONE cape buffalo, it is the bull in my avatar, and it was with a zoli 450-400. it did a great job and i am a fan! have shot wildebeest, moose with it, was effective every time that 400 grain bullet hit meat. recoil is not bad, my rifle is accurate and the instant second shot was a nice feature on my buffalo bull.

craig boddington called it "perfect" for buffalo. i have very little experience on them, but, hunters with much more experience than i seem to agree, it is just right for buffalo.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

450-400 is a great caliber and similar to the 400 Jeffery so that makes perfect buffalo medicine. As for the Elephant question, I think that the 500 Nitro Express may offer more of a stunning reaction to an off place shot than the 450-400 and thereby giving both you and the PH a better chance of a second shot before the Elephant starts the charge.

HH

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Medium bore, large bore, or stopping rifle for dangerous game? It is something only a shooter who is honest with them self can answer. How heavy a rifle can you carry all day in 100-degree heat, and perhaps more important, how much recoil can you shoot accurately, shot after shot?

In other words, an accurate shot with a medium bore, .375, .416, 450/400 or 500/416 is better than “missed it by that much” shot placement with a .45 something or other or larger bore rifle.

Personally I can thread a needle with a .375, and shoot small groups with a .416. My .458 Win is just right for a 20 to 40 shot practice session. A .458 Lott is not as enjoyable to shoot as the .458 Win, and my .450 Rigby is a rifle I can shoot accurately but it’s muzzle rise is a bit much for me to take a quick second shot.

Finally, my friend @Altitude sickness had a .505 Gibbs that he shot very well. Me, not so much. I shot the 505 a total of two times and realized that it exceeded my threshold of recoil management.

Try before you buy if at all possible and do not think that bigger is always better!