4350 powders

[Tanner]

I don’t think I’ve done an introduction but have lurked on this site for many years. I’d like to thank Jerome Phillipe and all forum members for such a wealth of information!

So I’ll consider this my introduction. To keep it short I’ve hunted Montana for the last 20 years with an unsuccessful trip to Alaska. And a successful trip to Texas for aoudad and javelina.

I’m in the process of booking a trip to Namibia in May, targeting Burchell’s zebra, eland and kudu along with whatever opportunity may bring. In the battery will be a 300 H&H with 200 gr Swift a frames. I’m debating on bringing a 275 Rigby with 160gn A frames or 35 Whelen with 200gn TTSX.

My question here is I see the swift manual providing load data for the 300 and 275 using IMR 4350. From what I’ve read H4350 is more temperature stable. Considering I’m reloading in an unseasonable warm Montana winter with temps in the 50s, should I be concerned with getting to Africa and having loads of IMR that are potentially hazardous in the hotter climate? I’d prefer to use Hodgdens but have no load data for it and it doesn’t seem like they’re interchangeable?

Any info is appreciated, thank you.

 

[greyfox]

In reverse order: They are NOT interchangable, They are CLOSE. I can provide loading info for IMR 4350 (My pretty much go-to) as can several other members on this board.

With the 300 H&H, there's really no NEED for a 275 or a 35 unless you just want to take them, Personally, I'd take any of the three and not have any second thoughts. I'd rather travel with just the one gun.

I took hunted Aoudad unsuccessfully in Spet 24, It was HOT and no shade at all! Certainly a learning experience, and a long, hot, expensive camping trip. My partner saw one that was far away and either a ewe or a juvenile. I never even saw one. I did glass up some deer that weren't in season.

I can't find my Swift manual but here's from Nosler #9:

300 H&H 210 Nosler Max 58 gr Min 54 gr
180 Nosler Max 65 Min 61 gr
165 Nosler MAX 67 Min 63


275 (7X57) 160 Nosler 46 Max 42 min
175 Nosler 45 Max 41 Min

Of course start at the minimum and work up. Good Luck

 

[Surgeon1]

They are not really interchangeable, as far as temperature stable they both are very temp stable.
I use H4350 in 7x57 (275 Rigby) and in 300 H&H and IMR 4350 in 300 WM and 300Wby (both regulated to the magic 2825-2850fps. As far as your bullet choice the 200gr A-frame is the perfect bullet for Africa. As anyone knows that reads my posts and comments, I'm a big proponent of Swift bullets and I detest Barnes and most monoliths. The 225 or 250 A-frames in 35 Whelen would always
be my go-to bullets.
Work up loads in 275 Rigby and 300H&H and go for it. The 35 Whelen with 200 TSX offer nothing over a 300H&H with 200 A-fames, and I have a lot of respect and admiration for the Whelen.
I live in cold Mtns of WY and have no trouble with either 4350 powders in freezing temps to 100+
and have used them for years. Off again to Uganda in13d with double, a 300 mag and a 375, the later 2 using IMR 4350.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

@Tanner,
powders are NOT interchangeable.

H4350 is more temperature stable than IMR 4350.
If one loads and measures velocity in 60-degree weather, then encounters Africa at 90 degrees, a 30-degree increase in temperature will produce,

• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .29 = increase of 8.7 fps
• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .64 = increase of 19.2 fps

While the above velocity increases may be insignificant, they are the result of increased chamber pressure! Africa heat when one can't safety touch their rifle's barrel, can increase pressure to the point that a bolt won't open to allow for a follow up shot.

For IMR 4350, just do not load your cartridges to the maximum pressure and you will probably be safe. When working up loads a half grain at a time, increases in powder charges when the bullet's velocity has pretty much stopped any significant increases, chances are your pressure is starting to increase at a much faster rate. To be safe, if the max load listed produces 2,700 fps, try loading to 2,600 fps and your Montana load will have room for increased pressure caused by increased heat in Africa.

In the early 20th century when not so temperature stable cordite was the available powder for powerful cartridges, the large volume case design of the .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery,nitro express cartridges and so on allowed for increased heat in the intended operational environment. i.e. Africa.

The chart below provides the increase in Muzzle Velocity in FPS, per degree of temperature increase measured in Fahrenheit.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

What time of year will you be hunting Namibia? I hunt South Africa in late August usually which is the tail end of their winter with wildflowers just starting to bloom. It can be nippy some mornings. The temps aren't a lot different than Montana hunting season (I'm back there every fall for deer and birds). I don't hunt Namibia (yet) but that time of year I wouldn't expect it to be scorching hot for areas with those species.

I load 4350 Accurate and IMR. There is some difference but it's not hard to rework the load when switching powders to retain zero. I'm not a long range shooter with just 30-06 and 404J so that makes a difference. Less loading data available for Accurate but it's all that was available during COVID so I learned to make do.

I travel with two guns but only when necessary (can't shoot buffalo with 30-06). I don't see any point in dragging along a second rifle but I guess it's okay. The new scope crapped on my 30-06 the first safari and bedding gave out the second safari (long story). I switched to rental rifle both trips and did fine. For a couple of longer shots on my second safari I borrowed my PH's fancy scoped 270 WSM. Whatever works.

Where are you in Montana with temps in 50s this winter? It's been frightfully cold just about everywhere else. Some -40° here the last couple weeks. Good to hear you're getting a break. The deer will need it. Numbers on Hi Line mysteriously were in the dumper last season. No one can figure out why. Lots of deer still around at end of 2024 season and that winter was quite mild. Some blue tongue but seems to mostly hit whitetails and their numbers seemed about the same to me. Mule deer were way down.

 

[shootist~]

Do you already have loads worked up (or close)? I don't load the 300 H&H, but other powders seem more popular (see below thread).

If you already have a load you could keep them in a hot-ish ice chest on the way to the range and do a temp test of sorts.

Thread '300 H&H Bullet and Powder advice'

Dec 31, 2023

My 2024 resolution is to get a load developed for my Ruger No 1 300 H&H. Wonder if anyone could suggest bullets & powders they've had good experiences with in this rifle/caliber combo, (or just 300 H&H in general)? 180gr and 200gr Partitions are my go to's for 30 cal, but obviously plenty to choose from. Not looking to push max velocity etc, just a nice, accurate all-around plains game load. Thanks

• Tango
• Replies: 26
• Forum: Reloading

• 

 

[DocHolliday]

Namibia in May is relatively cool. Midday gets around 90*F where we hunted in the northeastern part. Lows in upper 30’s to low 40’s. Temperature sensitivity should not be an issue.

Any of these 3 are great. I’ve used .338-06, ,35Whelen and .375 Whelen. My son has used.338WSM and .375 Whelen. We used Varget so no temp issues, but as I said, you should not have any problems with it either.

Oh, and they ^^ are right, the 4350’s are not interchangeable.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I would not worry about the temp sensitivity unless your loads are near the red line anyway.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I don’t think I’ve done an introduction but have lurked on this site for many years. I’d like to thank Jerome Phillipe and all forum members for such a wealth of information!

So I’ll consider this my introduction. To keep it short I’ve hunted Montana for the last 20 years with an unsuccessful trip to Alaska. And a successful trip to Texas for aoudad and javelina.

I’m in the process of booking a trip to Namibia in May, targeting Burchell’s zebra, eland and kudu along with whatever opportunity may bring. In the battery will be a 300 H&H with 200 gr Swift a frames. I’m debating on bringing a 275 Rigby with 160gn A frames or 35 Whelen with 200gn TTSX.

My question here is I see the swift manual providing load data for the 300 and 275 using IMR 4350. From what I’ve read H4350 is more temperature stable. Considering I’m reloading in an unseasonable warm Montana winter with temps in the 50s, should I be concerned with getting to Africa and having loads of IMR that are potentially hazardous in the hotter climate? I’d prefer to use Hodgdens but have no load data for it and it doesn’t seem like they’re interchangeable?

Any info is appreciated, thank you.

I've used IMR 4350 for many years. I have good loads with it in .22-250, 7-08, 7 RM and .30-06. I have used it in Africa and Northern California, where deer hunting is often in the 90 to 100 degree range, and once packed a buck out of a canyon at 109. I do use other powders, but I have used IMR 4350 the most. If you have a load with it that you like, I'd say take it and don't worry.

 

[Tanner]

In reverse order: They are NOT interchangable, They are CLOSE. I can provide loading info for IMR 4350 (My pretty much go-to) as can several other members on this board.

With the 300 H&H, there's really no NEED for a 275 or a 35 unless you just want to take them, Personally, I'd take any of the three and not have any second thoughts. I'd rather travel with just the one gun.

I took hunted Aoudad unsuccessfully in Spet 24, It was HOT and no shade at all! Certainly a learning experience, and a long, hot, expensive camping trip. My partner saw one that was far away and either a ewe or a juvenile. I never even saw one. I did glass up some deer that weren't in season.

I can't find my Swift manual but here's from Nosler #9:

300 H&H 210 Nosler Max 58 gr Min 54 gr
180 Nosler Max 65 Min 61 gr
165 Nosler MAX 67 Min 63


275 (7X57) 160 Nosler 46 Max 42 min
175 Nosler 45 Max 41 Min

Of course start at the minimum and work up. Good Luck

I picked up a swift manual and I’ll start working on a load for the 300. My thought with bringing the 35 Whelen is it’s CRF and my 300 is a no.1. So just preparing for if anything went wrong. But I think I’ll just stick with the H&H.

I couldn’t believe how hard aoudad were to spot, having no white colored fur was something i wasn’t used to. I watched them get into loose sand and use their horns like shovels tossing sand and dirt all over themselves. I think that alone really adds to how well they blend in. A lot of times when i spot animals with the naked eye at distance it’s just picking up a different sheen, can’t do that with aoudad.

 

[Tanner]

@Tanner,
powders are NOT interchangeable.

H4350 is more temperature stable than IMR 4350.
If one loads and measures velocity in 60-degree weather, then encounters Africa at 90 degrees, a 30-degree increase in temperature will produce,

• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .29 = increase of 8.7 fps
• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .64 = increase of 19.2 fps

While the above velocity increases may be insignificant, they are the result of increased chamber pressure! Africa heat when one can't safety touch their rifle's barrel, can increase pressure to the point that a bolt won't open to allow for a follow up shot.

For IMR 4350, just do not load your cartridges to the maximum pressure and you will probably be safe. When working up loads a half grain at a time, increases in powder charges when the bullet's velocity has pretty much stopped any significant increases, chances are your pressure is starting to increase at a much faster rate. To be safe, if the max load listed produces 2,700 fps, try loading to 2,600 fps and your Montana load will have room for increased pressure caused by increased heat in Africa.

In the early 20th century when not so temperature stable cordite was the available powder for powerful cartridges, the large volume case design of the .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery,nitro express cartridges and so on allowed for increased heat in the intended operational environment. i.e. Africa.

The chart below provides the increase in Muzzle Velocity in FPS, per degree of temperature increase measured in Fahrenheit.

View attachment 742577

Thanks for the info Mark that chart is handy! I’ll keep the loads under max and go from there. Also congrats on your recent hunt and thanks for bringing us along, I really enjoyed that video!

 

[Tanner]

What time of year will you be hunting Namibia? I hunt South Africa in late August usually which is the tail end of their winter with wildflowers just starting to bloom. It can be nippy some mornings. The temps aren't a lot different than Montana hunting season (I'm back there every fall for deer and birds). I don't hunt Namibia (yet) but that time of year I wouldn't expect it to be scorching hot for areas with those species.

I load 4350 Accurate and IMR. There is some difference but it's not hard to rework the load when switching powders to retain zero. I'm not a long range shooter with just 30-06 and 404J so that makes a difference. Less loading data available for Accurate but it's all that was available during COVID so I learned to make do.

I travel with two guns but only when necessary (can't shoot buffalo with 30-06). I don't see any point in dragging along a second rifle but I guess it's okay. The new scope crapped on my 30-06 the first safari and bedding gave out the second safari (long story). I switched to rental rifle both trips and did fine. For a couple of longer shots on my second safari I borrowed my PH's fancy scoped 270 WSM. Whatever works.

Where are you in Montana with temps in 50s this winter? It's been frightfully cold just about everywhere else. Some -40° here the last couple weeks. Good to hear you're getting a break. The deer will need it. Numbers on Hi Line mysteriously were in the dumper last season. No one can figure out why. Lots of deer still around at end of 2024 season and that winter was quite mild. Some blue tongue but seems to mostly hit whitetails and their numbers seemed about the same to me. Mule deer were way down.

Thanks for the reply, I had planned on taking two rifles because the 275 and 300 are no.1s, the 35 is a Hawkeye African so I thought it could be advantageous having a CRF rifle. It would detract from the experience using a gun that’s not mine but that’s just me.

We’re going to Namibia in May. It was short notice on a cancellation hunt but it looks like a great opportunity.

I’m in SW MT, I’ve never seen a winter this warm and with such little snow fall. Its been mid 40s to 50s just about all winter with a few cold days here and there.

 

[Cooposo]

Hornady and Nosler both list H4350 for 200 grain Bullets in the 300 H&H. Hornady has it listed for 162-166 grain bullets in 7x57 Mauser but Nosler does not include it for their 160 grain loads.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Thanks for the reply, I had planned on taking two rifles because the 275 and 300 are no.1s, the 35 is a Hawkeye African so I thought it could be advantageous having a CRF rifle. It would detract from the experience using a gun that’s not mine but that’s just me.

We’re going to Namibia in May. It was short notice on a cancellation hunt but it looks like a great opportunity.

I’m in SW MT, I’ve never seen a winter this warm and with such little snow fall. Its been mid 40s to 50s just about all winter with a few cold days here and there.

I agree with you on taking your own two rifles. I always insist on using my own guns. I find that there is more satisfaction and confidence in using the guns that I have developed loads for and shot until I didn't have to think about their function. I can't see that traveling with one rifle is easier than two. Also, a mechanical problem or a fall that wreaks the sights could happen at any time. That has never happened to me, but I've seen it with others. A back-up rifle is never a bad thing.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don’t think I’ve done an introduction but have lurked on this site for many years. I’d like to thank Jerome Phillipe and all forum members for such a wealth of information!

So I’ll consider this my introduction. To keep it short I’ve hunted Montana for the last 20 years with an unsuccessful trip to Alaska. And a successful trip to Texas for aoudad and javelina.

I’m in the process of booking a trip to Namibia in May, targeting Burchell’s zebra, eland and kudu along with whatever opportunity may bring. In the battery will be a 300 H&H with 200 gr Swift a frames. I’m debating on bringing a 275 Rigby with 160gn A frames or 35 Whelen with 200gn TTSX.

My question here is I see the swift manual providing load data for the 300 and 275 using IMR 4350. From what I’ve read H4350 is more temperature stable. Considering I’m reloading in an unseasonable warm Montana winter with temps in the 50s, should I be concerned with getting to Africa and having loads of IMR that are potentially hazardous in the hotter climate? I’d prefer to use Hodgdens but have no load data for it and it doesn’t seem like they’re interchangeable?

Any info is appreciated, thank you.

@Tanner
Any of the rifles you mentioned will be fine for Namibia.
For class the 399H&H or the 275 Rigby
For sheer grunt ,range and bone smashing power the Whelen.
All 3 will work fine but I do love the Whelen.
H4350/ 2209 is temp stable but I personally would work up loads in the summer heat. That way you will have loads that are safe for use all year round.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don’t think I’ve done an introduction but have lurked on this site for many years. I’d like to thank Jerome Phillipe and all forum members for such a wealth of information!

So I’ll consider this my introduction. To keep it short I’ve hunted Montana for the last 20 years with an unsuccessful trip to Alaska. And a successful trip to Texas for aoudad and javelina.

I’m in the process of booking a trip to Namibia in May, targeting Burchell’s zebra, eland and kudu along with whatever opportunity may bring. In the battery will be a 300 H&H with 200 gr Swift a frames. I’m debating on bringing a 275 Rigby with 160gn A frames or 35 Whelen with 200gn TTSX.

My question here is I see the swift manual providing load data for the 300 and 275 using IMR 4350. From what I’ve read H4350 is more temperature stable. Considering I’m reloading in an unseasonable warm Montana winter with temps in the 50s, should I be concerned with getting to Africa and having loads of IMR that are potentially hazardous in the hotter climate? I’d prefer to use Hodgdens but have no load data for it and it doesn’t seem like they’re interchangeable?

Any info is appreciated, thank you.

@Tanner
4350 of any description is to slow for the Whelen unless using the 310 grainer
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I picked up a swift manual and I’ll start working on a load for the 300. My thought with bringing the 35 Whelen is it’s CRF and my 300 is a no.1. So just preparing for if anything went wrong. But I think I’ll just stick with the H&H.

I couldn’t believe how hard aoudad were to spot, having no white colored fur was something i wasn’t used to. I watched them get into loose sand and use their horns like shovels tossing sand and dirt all over themselves. I think that alone really adds to how well they blend in. A lot of times when i spot animals with the naked eye at distance it’s just picking up a different sheen, can’t do that with aoudad.

@Tanner Ah the old push feed V CRF.
Don't worry about it both work equally well despite the arguments that CRF is better.
But that's my opinion.
Loaded properly the Whelen leave nothing to be desired. A nice 225 gn accubond at 2,900 fps out of the Whelen will allow you to take shots past 300 yards with ease ( and practice).
Bob

 

[Tanner]

@Tanner Ah the old push feed V CRF.
Don't worry about it both work equally well despite the arguments that CRF is better.
But that's my opinion.
Loaded properly the Whelen leave nothing to be desired. A nice 225 gn accubond at 2,900 fps out of the Whelen will allow you to take shots past 300 yards with ease ( and practice).
Bob

I have boxes of factory 250 gr Norma Oryx I’d take if using the Whelen. My normal hunting rig is a 300 Wby in a Mark V. I’ve never had any issues with it but I’ve always preferred the Mauser style extractor. I do dislike that extra push on a Weatherby to get the extractor over the rim when chambering.

 

[Daryl S]

Namibia in May is relatively cool. Midday gets around 90*F where we hunted in the northeastern part. Lows in upper 30’s to low 40’s. Temperature sensitivity should not be an issue.

Any of these 3 are great. I’ve used .338-06, ,35Whelen and .375 Whelen. My son has used.338WSM and .375 Whelen. We used Varget so no temp issues, but as I said, you should not have any problems with it either.

Oh, and they ^^ are right, the 4350’s are not interchangeable.

That's my problem with hunting Africa. Too bloody hot for this "Northern" Canadian.
OK - where and at what time of the year is it only in the lower 70's in Africa?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have boxes of factory 250 gr Norma Oryx I’d take if using the Whelen. My normal hunting rig is a 300 Wby in a Mark V. I’ve never had any issues with it but I’ve always preferred the Mauser style extractor. I do dislike that extra push on a Weatherby to get the extractor over the rim when chambering.

@Tanner
Load the Whelen up to 2,700fos with those 250s and go have fun
Bob