4350 powders

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

That's my problem with hunting Africa. Too bloody hot for this "Northern" Canadian.
OK - where and at what time of the year is it only in the lower 70's in Africa?

 

[Daryl S]

Thats so close to .358 Norma Mag. no animal would know the diff. & that's with factory quoted ballistics, 50fps to 90fps fps. diff.
"Factory Norma Oryx 250gr. advertises a muzzle velocity of 2,756 fps."
Just hang around the YM/YW CA. LOL + YOGA pants.
You can tell they were designed by a man.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thats so close to .358 Norma Mag. no animal would know the diff. & that's with factory quoted ballistics, 50fps to 90fps fps. diff.
"Factory Norma Oryx 250gr. advertises a muzzle velocity of 2,756 fps."
Just hang around the YM/YW CA. LOL + YOGA pants.
You can tell they were designed by a man.

@Daryl S
Plus a 310 gn at 2,455 fps. An animal would have a hard time telling if it was hit by the Whelen,9.3x62 or the old 375 H&H load.
Bob

 

[Daryl S]

Absolutely spot-on, Bob.

 

[450 Dakota]

@Tanner Ah the old push feed V CRF.
Don't worry about it both work equally well despite the arguments that CRF is better.
But that's my opinion.
Loaded properly the Whelen leave nothing to be desired. A nice 225 gn accubond at 2,900 fps out of the Whelen will allow you to take shots past 300 yards with ease ( and practice).
Bob

What powder are you using to get 2900 fps out of a 225 Accubond and what barrel length?

 

[Daryl S]

CF223 would be my guess, but maybe H4895. Just a guess.
Maybe a different spherical powder?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What powder are you using to get 2900 fps out of a 225 Accubond and what barrel length?

@450 Dakota
CFE223 & a 25" 1:12 twist barrel.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

CF223 would be my guess, but maybe H4895. Just a guess.
Maybe a different spherical powder?

@Daryl S
CFE 223
But Noslers max load of 61gn of varget gives me over 2,800fps, still not to shabby.
Bob

 

[450 Dakota]

@Daryl S
CFE 223
But Noslers max load of 61gn of varget gives me over 2,800fps, still not to shabby.
Bob

Ya, Varget is what I use.

 

[sgt_zim]

@Tanner,
powders are NOT interchangeable.

H4350 is more temperature stable than IMR 4350.
If one loads and measures velocity in 60-degree weather, then encounters Africa at 90 degrees, a 30-degree increase in temperature will produce,

• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .29 = increase of 8.7 fps
• Temperature increase of 30 degrees Fahrenheit x .64 = increase of 19.2 fps

While the above velocity increases may be insignificant, they are the result of increased chamber pressure! Africa heat when one can't safety touch their rifle's barrel, can increase pressure to the point that a bolt won't open to allow for a follow up shot.

For IMR 4350, just do not load your cartridges to the maximum pressure and you will probably be safe. When working up loads a half grain at a time, increases in powder charges when the bullet's velocity has pretty much stopped any significant increases, chances are your pressure is starting to increase at a much faster rate. To be safe, if the max load listed produces 2,700 fps, try loading to 2,600 fps and your Montana load will have room for increased pressure caused by increased heat in Africa.

In the early 20th century when not so temperature stable cordite was the available powder for powerful cartridges, the large volume case design of the .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery,nitro express cartridges and so on allowed for increased heat in the intended operational environment. i.e. Africa.

The chart below provides the increase in Muzzle Velocity in FPS, per degree of temperature increase measured in Fahrenheit.

View attachment 742577

Mark, I've never gotten too excited over anything under 1 fps/1º, and especially when the factor is closer to 0.5. I don't get to wrapped around the axle when there's an ES of 30 or 40 fps and additional heat will bring me up by only 5 or 10 fps.

The one advantage I have down here on the Gulf Coast is about 6 months of hot weather in which to do LD.

Messing around with loads in GRT for powders in the 1.0 factor range, diff between say 60 and 90 is not quite 2k psi.

 

[sgt_zim]

That's my problem with hunting Africa. Too bloody hot for this "Northern" Canadian.
OK - where and at what time of the year is it only in the lower 70's in Africa?

South Africa and Namibia from late June through late August. We hunted Limpopo in late August of 2024, and it was between 38º and 42º F every morning. We got close to 90º on 1 afternoon, but we had a couple days with the wind blowing and overcast and I don't think we got above about 65º. Afternoons were mostly 70s and low 80s, no humidity, no mosquitoes, and the number of biting flies I saw (feasting on my PH, not me or my wife) I could count on 2 hands. At the altitude where we were, there are no tsetses, and it's mostly too cold that time of year to see snakes.

Hunting around KNP will be warmer, they're pretty close to sea level. Hunting in the eastern mountains will be colder, snow and sleet that time of year aren't unheard of.

Most of southern Africa, along that red line (which actually goes just about to the Red Sea) is about 3000 feet or higher. Jo'burg is at almost 6k feet elevation.

 

[Daryl S]

For powders, our problems are the reverse. Load development in normal summer weather, low 70's, then hunting season comes and we're hunting in freezing weather. There, there will be Vel. drops of up to 180fps that I've seen with powders such as IMR4350, MR4831, H414, H380, Winch. 760, etc.
The new Hodgdon (Aussi ADI powders) are a blessing. The newer IMR 4000 series are also supposed good in temp. extremes. Not sure who makes those, but they seem closer to Norma powder in appearance.

 

[Daryl S]

South Africa and Namibia from late June through late August. We hunted Limpopo in late August of 2024, and it was between 38º and 42º F every morning. We got close to 90º on 1 afternoon, but we had a couple days with the wind blowing and overcast and I don't think we got above about 65º. Afternoons were mostly 70s and low 80s, no humidity, no mosquitoes, and the number of biting flies I saw (feasting on my PH, not me or my wife) I could count on 2 hands. At the altitude where we were, there are no tsetses, and it's mostly too cold that time of year to see snakes.

Hunting around KNP will be warmer, they're pretty close to sea level. Hunting in the eastern mountains will be colder, snow and sleet that time of year aren't unheard of.

Most of southern Africa, along that red line (which actually goes just about to the Red Sea) is about 3000 feet or higher. Jo'burg is at almost 6k feet elevation.

View attachment 743596

WOW- 38 to 42 would be super nice temps for hunting. That's like October here, but warming to 70's in the afternoon OK, 80's I don't like as a bit warm. 90- YIKES - we don't like that temp, dry or not. LOL
Thanks. I had no idea temps could be moderate in that manner, but I guess that's getting near the end of winter for them. finding the older I get, the lest resilient I am to temperature changes.

 

[sgt_zim]

WOW- 38 to 42 would be super nice temps for hunting. That's like October here, but warming to 70's in the afternoon, a bit warm. 90- YIKES - we don't like that temp, dry or not. LOL
Thanks. I had no idea temps could be moderate in that manner, but I guess that's getting near the end of winter for them.

I'll take 90º in ZA over 90º here in Houston any day of the week. Cuz 90º here means about 80% humidity. I'd be surprised if the humidity there ever got over 15 or 20%.

Weird thing coming from a guy who's lived on the Gulf coast for 50+ years, I'm not really a hot weather fan. I don't consider 90º with little humidity hot. 90º with the sort of humidity we have here is pretty close to intolerable for me. I get all the yard and garden work done before 11AM.

All you have to do to start pouring sweat here in the summer is go stand outside at 8 AM, 80 or 82 and 90% humidity.

July is peak winter for them.

 

[Daryl S]

I "escaped" South Western Ontario in 29th March 1972 by joining the RCMP. 100F and 100% humidity and not a damn cloud in the sky. I know all about humidity. Makes the winters colder than they are and summers hotter. Here in central (some say Northern) B.C., our av. humidity is just under 50%, with odd single digits happening both winter and summer. It's 86% when it's raining.