416 bullets for Moose size game and big bears?

Papabear55

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I'm bouncing between 400gr a frames, partitions and the 350gr speer mag tips. The 350gr are the cheapest so obviously if they are great id use them lol, i have some factory ammo with the 400gr a frames that I'll use up before i stadt reloading. Any thoughts? Not interested in tsx though, i know they work but i dont want to deal with copper fouling at this time
 

1dirthawker

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papabear55,

the a frames will work great, the north fork bullets are amazing too. i suspect the nosler partitions will provide good service and even the newer, bonded hornady's (all bullets in 400 gr) will do fine work, i have little experience with them, but the woodliegh bullets are bonded and have a fine reputation as well. i use 400 gr north fork bullets in my zoli 450-400. you will have to go a long ways to improve on the swift a frames you are already using
 

Papabear55

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papabear55,

the a frames will work great, the north fork bullets are amazing too. i suspect the nosler partitions will provide good service and even the newer, bonded hornady's (all bullets in 400 gr) will do fine work, i have little experience with them, but the woodliegh bullets are bonded and have a fine reputation as well. i use 400 gr north fork bullets in my zoli 450-400. you will have to go a long ways to improve on the swift a frames you are already using
I thought north fork went out of business?
 

Papabear55

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I suggest that you use the bullet that groups best in your rifle. All that you have named are proven performers. Shot placement is still the most important factor.
Accuracy is the big deciding factor for me, but I'm trying to figure out what bullets to test lol. Dont want to buy 5 diff brands and the only use one if the first shoots well
 

1dirthawker

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I'm going to try them with the lot of factory ammo i have. If they dont shoot well im thinking the 350gr speers are up next due to price

my suggestion is...don't dictate your ammo due to price. decide on what kind of performance you expect, then buy bullets that will accommodate. when you start playing the over .375 caliber game, it costs more to play, period. just part of the deal, big bullets cost more, so, if you find a inexpensive (there really aren't any) 416 400 gr that shoots to the same point of impact as your "go to" 416 bullet, then buy some and get your practice in.

but, DO NOT shoot inferior bullets at game because they were less expensive! you are not shooting at prairie dogs or ground squirrels, so ones projectiles need to be appropriate for the game you are hunting.

remember, all the time, effort, practice and expense of a hunt all hinges of what happens after that bullet leaves the barrel, you can't take it back and it is going to do what it was designed to do. shot placement is most important but closely related is what will the bullet do when it gets there? will it blow up, smear, rivet, change direction, separate? or will it retain its weight, travel in its intended direction and do the job you wanted it to do.

price works for practice, NOT for hunting in my never to be humble opinion. good luck with your quest for the right bullet.
 

Papabear55

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my suggestion is...don't dictate your ammo due to price. decide on what kind of performance you expect, then buy bullets that will accommodate. when you start playing the over .375 caliber game, it costs more to play, period. just part of the deal, big bullets cost more, so, if you find a inexpensive (there really aren't any) 416 400 gr that shoots to the same point of impact as your "go to" 416 bullet, then buy some and get your practice in.

but, DO NOT shoot inferior bullets at game because they were less expensive! you are not shooting at prairie dogs or ground squirrels, so ones projectiles need to be appropriate for the game you are hunting.

remember, all the time, effort, practice and expense of a hunt all hinges of what happens after that bullet leaves the barrel, you can't take it back and it is going to do what it was designed to do. shot placement is most important but closely related is what will the bullet do when it gets there? will it blow up, smear, rivet, change direction, separate? or will it retain its weight, travel in its intended direction and do the job you wanted it to do.

price works for practice, NOT for hunting in my never to be humble opinion. good luck with your quest for the right bullet.
Sir, i understand the expense of big bores quite well. I have a few and have been reloading for a few, and usually i use nothing but woodleighs or similarily expensive bullets. But if i can find a cheap bullet thay will work appropriately on my desired game, that is also readily available (which most aren't) then i will use it. Most of my hunting will be deer and elk sized game, with moose and big bear sprinkled in there occasionally. If i just wanted a cheapo dinky bullet to use id go with hornady. I generally stick to premium bullets but if that 350gr hot cor performs close to how a premium bullet does, i wouldn't hesitate to use it on the game i usually hunt
 

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I thought north fork went out of business?

They are in business but now under new ownership in Sweden.

If you are (unwisely) buying by price, you won’t like North Fork or the other similarly superb bullets by Rhino etc.
 

Papabear55

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They are in business but now under new ownership in Sweden.

If you are (unwisely) buying by price, you won’t like North Fork or the other similarly superb bullets by Rhino etc.
Not buying by price alone, but if theres a great bullet for cheaper, why not? I'll have to look at north fork again, almost bought a bunch of their bullets until i heard they were going out of business and didnt want to get into a bullet i could procure in the future
 

matt85

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If you don't want a lot of copper fouling then i suggest staying away from Swift A-frames. A-frames and Barnes both leave about equal amount of copper fouling in barrels (a lot).

The 350gr Speer bullet would probably be fine for moose but i might want a slightly tougher bullet for big bears. Perhaps take a look at the Woodleigh 340gr: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010849319?pid=373353

-matt
 

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Papabear55

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I
If you don't want a lot of copper fouling then i suggest staying away from Swift A-frames. A-frames and Barnes both leave about equal amount of copper fouling in barrels (a lot).

The 350gr Speer bullet would probably be fine for moose but i might want a slightly tougher bullet for big bears. Perhaps take a look at the Woodleigh 340gr: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010849319?pid=373353

-matt
May try that, just trying to find something readily available. I loved the woodleighs for my other calibers. Didnt know the a frames fouled so much
 

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I have shot my share of moose 20+ ( I have been fortunate ). And if your using a 416 then your using plenty of gun for moose and bullet selection wont be critical (with in reason).
And yes grizzly ( bears) can be a issue with all the blood etc. And I appreciate as hunters we try to get the best equipment and performance we can. But cost is a factor with most of us.
I have used all the bullets you have mentioned, none gave me any issue to be concerned. Really your choosing a bear bullet, because the moose are big but just not that tough in my experience. The largest bull I ever personally witnessed was a 223 Barnes bullet, this bull was in excess of 1300 lbs and over 60 inches ( I regret I dont have a picture it was 35 years ago). The bullet you select is if Mr. bear shows up and is being a problem. I usually defer to a Nosler Partion or a A frame.

Good Hunting

Pat

Moose rack 2019.png
 
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matt85

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I

May try that, just trying to find something readily available. I loved the woodleighs for my other calibers. Didnt know the a frames fouled so much

The link i posted has 340gr Woodleighs available.

I LOVE Barnes and Swift bullets, but fouling is a part of life with these bullets. I exclusively use the 300gr TSX in my 416 RM and have killed enough critters with it to know the performance is worth the trouble of cleaning later. I killed my buffalo with a 570gr A-frame from a 505 Gibbs and could not say enough good things about the bullets performance. Im currently using 570gr A-frames for my 500 NE double rifle but have not killed anything with it yet.

edit: I use foaming copper solvents to clean after Barnes and Swift bullets to make life easier. I have been using Break Free BCF which has worked well!

-matt
 
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ChrisG

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340 Woodleigh was my choice for bears. I took a smaller black bear with my .416 Ruger a few years ago with that Woodleigh at 2,550 fps. It was massive overkill and unnecessary. I feel like it would be a bit better of a fit on something the size of moose or brown bear. It was fairly flat shooting and Woodleighs bonding holds up well at those kinds of velocity. Here is my quick write up on the use of a .416 on the black bear I got with it. https://www.africahunting.com/threads/got-to-field-test-a-416-ruger.40229/

Not a representation of really straining what the caliber can do, but I wouldn't recommend pushing those bullets much faster. That small bear had a huge hole coming out the back side.

On a coastal brown bear, I would probably opt for a 400 grain bullet and keep the shot inside 150 yards. The 340 or 400 would definitely work though. I I think the results would be the same... dead bear with a hole in and a slightly larger hole out with bone fragments strewn along the path.

I would actually say that a Moose would be a much better test of a cartridge's mettle than a bear. Bears are not build like large herbivores. Their bone structure is lighter and they're not even remotely bullet proof. Herbivores still rank among the toughest organic resistance to a bullets passage to date.

Gun writers with one bear hunt under their belt (or none) are responsible for the myth that a bear cannot be stopped. Drama sells articles unfortunately. I pretty much take what craig boddington says as a well-founded opinion and ignore most of the others. I even read one article that the author recommended a minimum of a .338 mag to hunt black bear because they are dangerous when wounded. ANY animal is dangerous when wounded!

I am sort of the pot calling the kettle black because I use a .375 or my rifled 12 gauge with a 775 hard cast wadcutter when hunting bear. Not because I think it is necessary, but because I like to use all my guns for hunting even if they are a little overkill. Anyway, I digress.

Use a good bullet. My preference would be for the woodleigh or a 350 grain barnes TTSX. The animal will not go far if you put it where it needs to go.
 

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I have used Cutting Edge 225 grain tipped raptor @ 2,950 successfully on my .416 B&M from Zebra to Elk.

For grizzly I would go to 300 grain tipped raptors at a bit lower speed.

If shooting a .416 Rigby those velocities are going to go up due to more case capacity.
 

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.416 CEB 225 Raptors will do everything, and then a hell of a lot more for this mission. These have already been proven on big bears. DRT..... Have a friend here in NC that took a big bear with 416 B&M and 225 Raptors at 2900 +, bullet exits broadside, leaves bear where he was standing. Even exits Aussie buffalo. These are wicked and the last bullet you will ever need in the field in 416 for everything lesser than buffalo.
 

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Either one will work, your shooting enough gun that about any bullet 300 gr. to 450 gr. will work. I would think a 350 gr. bonded core or partition will be a good choice or any 400 gr. for that matter, after all the 30-06 and 30-30 have killed a world of moose and even the big bears and every year..
 

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