400 Whelen

[Gerald Boyd]

Short happy thumper!! I have a Mauser 45-70 w/22" barrel. I want to have a similar gun on the '06 brass to fit between the 35 Whelen and 45-70. Which takes us to 'never should have sold Ruger #1 in 404' ........ I need to find a good 'smith here in Tucson. Best of luck to you MileHigh

 

[steve white]

I am happy with the few forming loads I've shot, but haven't done anything serious. Since i built the 400 i acquired a 416 Taylor built by Frank Wells, and also a 404 Jeffrey from Parker Hale. Take time had been limited and i can only shoot so many big-mediums at a time lol. I am actually taking it to the smith tomorrow to have the 25" barrel cut back to 21.5 or 22". I don't need top DG performance from it, but I do need a short handy thumper for work here in the USA, so that'll be the ticket!

21.5 "---don't end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...you might end up with little better than a 35 Rem with larger frontal area if you cut if off too much. Besides, it's running GOOD now!

 

[MedRiver]

21.5 "---don't end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...you might end up with little better than a 35 Rem with larger frontal area if you cut if off too much. Besides, it's running GOOD now!

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have a 21" .400 Whelen and can confirm that very little is lost with a shorter barrel. This round is extremely efficient so it doesn't take much length to get everything burned it seems.

My little rifle can comfortably do the following with zero visible pressure signs (doesn't mean I am not over 60K....just that it isn't showing up in my brass in any way):

300 Hornady at around 2,400 +/- (I believe RL 10X on this, will check notes and edit if different)
300 TSX (I think this could be a very capable do-all load) @ 2,350 +/- with H4895
360 North Fork (seems to be a tremendous bullet) @ 2,225 with RL10X
400 Hawk @ 2,140 with CFE 223

Will do some testing this summer to see what happens at 90 plus degrees. May have to back off some if using this outside my typical fall Montana temps.

I believe my 360 NF load has some FPS left on the table but I got good accuracy and very manageable recoil so left well enough alone. When I first worked up the load I only had one box of 360s. Spitting out hard to obtain imported bullets at $2+ per seemed like a poor choice just to gain a few more FPS. I have since obtained more bullets and have made plenty of bad choices so will see what CFE can do with the 360 sooner than later. I am sure all my future hopes and dreams of killing large beasts will hang in the balance of whether I can break 2300 fps with the 360 NF (*sarcasm*).

I have been able to get acceptable accuracy with everything (1"-1.75") except the 300 grain Hornady. I get a few fliers with that stubby little thing that will turn a nice 1.5" cluster into a 4" hair puller . I regulated my open sights to that bullet and will just use it for offhand practice since midway had a run of 2nds for a tremendous price. They feed like greased trout in my rifle and, even with the fliers, are plenty accurate for offhand 100 yard shooting of pigs or whatever. They thump enough when you pull the trigger that they should work for building muscle memory for practical field practice

I believe Mart or someone on the 24HCF thread had feeding problems with the 300 Hdy but my rifle is the exact opposite and feeds poorly when cartridges get too long. I have been able to resolve my feeding issues with tweeks to the mag box.

I have taken just four deer and an antelope with the rifle and all with the 360 NF. If conditions are right I may try to poke a cow elk with the 300 TSX in the next week or two but have some other rifles I want to hunt with so not sure who will be on the dance card.

A gentleman recently sent me some cast bullets to try out as well as some .412" lead round balls that he shoots over a very light load of pistol powder for a virtually silent small game load that is accurate in his rifle. He also has loaded shot to make his .400 into basically a brass cased .410 shotgun. I encounter a lot of grouse on my elk hunts...a few of these in a coat pocket could be just the ticket for camp meat.

It is all nonsense ofcourse, but my .400 has been my hands down favorite rifle project. A .41 Mag, a .410 shotgun, a roundball shooter, deer slayer, moose poker and buffalo stomper all in one little package with cheap brass and manageable recoil.

 

[Milehighshooter]

good stuff Med!

 

[cajunchefray]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have a 21" .400 Whelen and can confirm that very little is lost with a shorter barrel. This round is extremely efficient so it doesn't take much length to get everything burned it seems.

My little rifle can comfortably do the following with zero visible pressure signs (doesn't mean I am not over 60K....just that it isn't showing up in my brass in any way):

300 Hornady at around 2,400 +/- (I believe RL 10X on this, will check notes and edit if different)
300 TSX (I think this could be a very capable do-all load) @ 2,350 +/- with H4895
360 North Fork (seems to be a tremendous bullet) @ 2,225 with RL10X
400 Hawk @ 2,140 with CFE 223

Will do some testing this summer to see what happens at 90 plus degrees. May have to back off some if using this outside my typical fall Montana temps.

I believe my 360 NF load has some FPS left on the table but I got good accuracy and very manageable recoil so left well enough alone. When I first worked up the load I only had one box of 360s. Spitting out hard to obtain imported bullets at $2+ per seemed like a poor choice just to gain a few more FPS. I have since obtained more bullets and have made plenty of bad choices so will see what CFE can do with the 360 sooner than later. I am sure all my future hopes and dreams of killing large beasts will hang in the balance of whether I can break 2300 fps with the 360 NF (*sarcasm*).

I have been able to get acceptable accuracy with everything (1"-1.75") except the 300 grain Hornady. I get a few fliers with that stubby little thing that will turn a nice 1.5" cluster into a 4" hair puller . I regulated my open sights to that bullet and will just use it for offhand practice since midway had a run of 2nds for a tremendous price. They feed like greased trout in my rifle and, even with the fliers, are plenty accurate for offhand 100 yard shooting of pigs or whatever. They thump enough when you pull the trigger that they should work for building muscle memory for practical field practice

I believe Mart or someone on the 24HCF thread had feeding problems with the 300 Hdy but my rifle is the exact opposite and feeds poorly when cartridges get too long. I have been able to resolve my feeding issues with tweeks to the mag box.

I have taken just four deer and an antelope with the rifle and all with the 360 NF. If conditions are right I may try to poke a cow elk with the 300 TSX in the next week or two but have some other rifles I want to hunt with so not sure who will be on the dance card.

A gentleman recently sent me some cast bullets to try out as well as some .412" lead round balls that he shoots over a very light load of pistol powder for a virtually silent small game load that is accurate in his rifle. He also has loaded shot to make his .400 into basically a brass cased .410 shotgun. I encounter a lot of grouse on my elk hunts...a few of these in a coat pocket could be just the ticket for camp meat.

It is all nonsense ofcourse, but my .400 has been my hands down favorite rifle project. A .41 Mag, a .410 shotgun, a roundball shooter, deer slayer, moose poker and buffalo stomper all in one little package with cheap brass and manageable recoil.

Good stuff @MedRiver.

Is that a Model 70 Winchester?

I've thought a lot about a proper .400 Whelen recently. Big fan of Colonel Townsend Whelen's and James Howe's creation, I have three .35 Whelens.

 

[MedRiver]

Thanks! It is actually a Montana 1999.

 

[Milehighshooter]

Cajun, careful now, we'll talk you into one

 

[mgstucson]

Thanks Medriver. I am getting ready to have one of my 35 Whelens rebored to 400 Whelen, and would love to have the barrel shortened to 21". Now I might just do that based on your experience. I live in the desert SW so I will be able to test loads at over 110F. If it gets much hotter than that, I aint huntin'. Thanks for resurrecting the thread. It wasn't THAT dead anyways.

 

[MedRiver]

Will be excited to hear how your rebore turns out. I have an old FN .270 that needs to be something else. A rebore to .375 Whelen improved seems like a quick way to complete the family.

 

[TrippKid24]

Hoping to revive this thread.. I’m new to posting on this forum, but have enjoyed reading and learning from many of you who are obviously subject matter experts on the .400 Whelen and a wide variety of other topics.

In short, you convinced me to build a .400 Whelen, and I couldn’t be more pleased with it. So far have only had the pleasure of shooting 300 gr. Hornady Interlocks through it, but have loved working with those so far. Started with an Interarms Mk X, had my wife’s grandpa help me thread and chamber a Pacnor barrel and fit it to a chunk of walnut. The barrel came stainless steel so I had a local fella cerakote all the metal midnight blue. Usually wears an older Leupold 2-7x. Not perfect, but I’ve enjoyed the process. Slays milk jugs like she was born to it.

 

[MedRiver]

That is a dandy! I am thinking seriously about restocking mine in wood. Rifles like yours make that all the more tempting.

Glad you brought this old thread up!

I actually had some work done on mine to address the feeding issues. Sent it to Stuart Satterlee and now it feeds exceptionally well. I also had my throat lengthened so I could run the 400 Round nose bullets at full mag length. I can now get the 400 grain Woodleighs going comfortably at 2100 fps.

The best news for .400 shooters is that Starline is now offering basic cylindrical .30-06 brass.

30-06 Basic Brass - Large Rifle - Brass Cases

""

www.starlinebrass.com

Better quality then Quality Cartridge in my opinion and a fraction of the cost. Makes forming .400 Whelen a breeze.

Based on reports from another shooter on a different forum, I have been playing with resizing .416" 350 Speer Mag-Tips down to .411". I run them with my hydraulic press through a .409" sizing die and they pop out at .411".

Have been able to run those comfortably at around 2350 FPS with acceptable accuracy. Just found a pile of them so should be a good all-around North American bullet.

I got the Hawk Cartridge reloading manual and it gives glowing reports of BLC-2 powder producing great speeds at moderate pressures. I was not able to duplicate that at all with the lots of BLC-2 I have. Not sure why the discrepancy there.

With RL10X have also got 300 grainers up to 2500 making them a pretty viable mid-range performer. TBD how well the brass holds up at 2500 so may have to back off but no "traditional" high pressure signs other than speed.

Took 300 TSXs to Alaska and they were used on mine and my buddy's moose. Had pass-throughs on broadside but caught some quartering. The bullet on the left impacted on my bull at close range at about 2250. Quartering away, it went in front of the left hip and was caught underneath the offside shoulder. The right bullet was from my buddy's at just over 200 yards. It was also quartering away and didn't impact anything bigger than a rib. Impact velocity around 1825 fps.

2x expansion at 2250
1.8x expansion at 1825

Both were 100% weight retention

I did discover that there are limitations on how far a Barnes will travel. My bull was face on within 50 yards. Everything was obscured by black spruce from the chin down. Should have put it between his eyes but foolishly held lower so I wouldn't break the skull plate. Traveled through the nose, broke the jaw, entered the neck and stopped just in front of the neck vertebrae. It is the bullet on the right with the flared petal.

I honestly thought it would dig deeper and break the neck. Turns out moose are big, jaw bones are thick and neck muscles are dense on rutted up bulls. A fully expanded Barnes (that one was 2.4x expansion) has to move through a lot of dense material to get all the way through the neck.

Zero complaints on performance with the body shots and they do make a thump!

 

[Albert GRANT]

Here is one for you guys-

Griffin & Howe Custom 1903 S

 

[steve white]

Hoping to revive this thread.. I’m new to posting on this forum, but have enjoyed reading and learning from many of you who are obviously subject matter experts on the .400 Whelen and a wide variety of other topics.

In short, you convinced me to build a .400 Whelen, and I couldn’t be more pleased with it. So far have only had the pleasure of shooting 300 gr. Hornady Interlocks through it, but have loved working with those so far. Started with an Interarms Mk X, had my wife’s grandpa help me thread and chamber a Pacnor barrel and fit it to a chunk of walnut. The barrel came stainless steel so I had a local fella cerakote all the metal midnight blue. Usually wears an older Leupold 2-7x. Not perfect, but I’ve enjoyed the process. Slays milk jugs like she was born to it.View attachment 742599View attachment 742600View attachment 742601

Nice. How is she feeding with various bullets? I'm guessing grandpa is a retired machinist with some commercial quality home shop equipment, metal lathe, etc.?

 

[steve white]

That is a dandy! I am thinking seriously about restocking mine in wood. Rifles like yours make that all the more tempting.

Glad you brought this old thread up!

I actually had some work done on mine to address the feeding issues. Sent it to Stuart Satterlee and now it feeds exceptionally well. I also had my throat lengthened so I could run the 400 Round nose bullets at full mag length. I can now get the 400 grain Woodleighs going comfortably at 2100 fps.

The best news for .400 shooters is that Starline is now offering basic cylindrical .30-06 brass.

30-06 Basic Brass - Large Rifle - Brass Cases

""

www.starlinebrass.com

Better quality then Quality Cartridge in my opinion and a fraction of the cost. Makes forming .400 Whelen a breeze.

Based on reports from another shooter on a different forum, I have been playing with resizing .416" 350 Speer Mag-Tips down to .411". I run them with my hydraulic press through a .409" sizing die and they pop out at .411".

View attachment 742620

View attachment 742621

Have been able to run those comfortably at around 2350 FPS with acceptable accuracy. Just found a pile of them so should be a good all-around North American bullet.

I got the Hawk Cartridge reloading manual and it gives glowing reports of BLC-2 powder producing great speeds at moderate pressures. I was not able to duplicate that at all with the lots of BLC-2 I have. Not sure why the discrepancy there.

With RL10X have also got 300 grainers up to 2500 making them a pretty viable mid-range performer. TBD how well the brass holds up at 2500 so may have to back off but no "traditional" high pressure signs other than speed.

Took 300 TSXs to Alaska and they were used on mine and my buddy's moose. Had pass-throughs on broadside but caught some quartering. The bullet on the left impacted on my bull at close range at about 2250. Quartering away, it went in front of the left hip and was caught underneath the offside shoulder. The right bullet was from my buddy's at just over 200 yards. It was also quartering away and didn't impact anything bigger than a rib. Impact velocity around 1825 fps.

2x expansion at 2250
1.8x expansion at 1825

Both were 100% weight retention

View attachment 742618

I did discover that there are limitations on how far a Barnes will travel. My bull was face on within 50 yards. Everything was obscured by black spruce from the chin down. Should have put it between his eyes but foolishly held lower so I wouldn't break the skull plate. Traveled through the nose, broke the jaw, entered the neck and stopped just in front of the neck vertebrae. It is the bullet on the right with the flared petal.

View attachment 742619
I honestly thought it would dig deeper and break the neck. Turns out moose are big, jaw bones are thick and neck muscles are dense on rutted up bulls. A fully expanded Barnes (that one was 2.4x expansion) has to move through a lot of dense material to get all the way through the neck.

Zero complaints on performance with the body shots and they do make a thump!

I hate to plead ignorance, but do swaged bullets retain all original weight or is some lost?

 

[TrippKid24]

Nice. How is she feeding with various bullets? I'm guessing grandpa is a retired machinist with some commercial quality home shop equipment, metal lathe, etc.?

I’ve only tried the 300 gr Hornady slugs so far. They fed fine, sorta. Originally had some trouble with the magazine box/follower retaining the first round I’d press into it. Once I stacked a second round on top, it would stay down, and the third and fourth rounds stayed in just fine. The first and second rounds fed, fired, and ejected just fine. The third round would feed and fire just fine, but as soon as I’d eject it, the bottom round would spring free from the mag box and make a mess of the operation.

Solved the issue by swapping the original magazine follower for a Ruger M77 follower that I modified to fit, and a new magazine spring. Runs all 4 rounds smoothly now.

Still working on making it a 4+1. It won’t depress the 5th round deep enough in the mag for the CRF to pick it up. I’ve stuck a few rounds in the chamber trying to get the claw extractor to pop over the case rim on the 5th round. If anyone knows a good trick for that, I’d be all ears. Til then I’m happy with it as a 4-shooter.

 

[TrippKid24]

Nice. How is she feeding with various bullets? I'm guessing grandpa is a retired machinist with some commercial quality home shop equipment, metal lathe, etc.?

Grandpa is a retired gunsmith with his shop mostly still set up. I usually bring a pile of parts and put something together with him when we go visit a couple times a year. He’s showed me just enough of how to run his lathe and stock duplicator to get myself by.

Grandpa’s lathe came from the guy who taught him gunsmithing 30-something years ago. That guy, according to Grandpa, learned gunsmithing from PO Ackley. Sort of a neat little family lore gunsmithing connection. It’s an old Logan 1922. Fun to learn on.

 

[5shot]

I hate to plead ignorance, but do swaged bullets retain all original weight or is some lost?

Same weight, longer and skinnier

 

[TrippKid24]

That is a dandy! I am thinking seriously about restocking mine in wood. Rifles like yours make that all the more tempting.

Glad you brought this old thread up!

I actually had some work done on mine to address the feeding issues. Sent it to Stuart Satterlee and now it feeds exceptionally well. I also had my throat lengthened so I could run the 400 Round nose bullets at full mag length. I can now get the 400 grain Woodleighs going comfortably at 2100 fps.

The best news for .400 shooters is that Starline is now offering basic cylindrical .30-06 brass.

30-06 Basic Brass - Large Rifle - Brass Cases

""

www.starlinebrass.com

Better quality then Quality Cartridge in my opinion and a fraction of the cost. Makes forming .400 Whelen a breeze.

Based on reports from another shooter on a different forum, I have been playing with resizing .416" 350 Speer Mag-Tips down to .411". I run them with my hydraulic press through a .409" sizing die and they pop out at .411".

View attachment 742620

View attachment 742621

Have been able to run those comfortably at around 2350 FPS with acceptable accuracy. Just found a pile of them so should be a good all-around North American bullet.

I got the Hawk Cartridge reloading manual and it gives glowing reports of BLC-2 powder producing great speeds at moderate pressures. I was not able to duplicate that at all with the lots of BLC-2 I have. Not sure why the discrepancy there.

With RL10X have also got 300 grainers up to 2500 making them a pretty viable mid-range performer. TBD how well the brass holds up at 2500 so may have to back off but no "traditional" high pressure signs other than speed.

Took 300 TSXs to Alaska and they were used on mine and my buddy's moose. Had pass-throughs on broadside but caught some quartering. The bullet on the left impacted on my bull at close range at about 2250. Quartering away, it went in front of the left hip and was caught underneath the offside shoulder. The right bullet was from my buddy's at just over 200 yards. It was also quartering away and didn't impact anything bigger than a rib. Impact velocity around 1825 fps.

2x expansion at 2250
1.8x expansion at 1825

Both were 100% weight retention

View attachment 742618

I did discover that there are limitations on how far a Barnes will travel. My bull was face on within 50 yards. Everything was obscured by black spruce from the chin down. Should have put it between his eyes but foolishly held lower so I wouldn't break the skull plate. Traveled through the nose, broke the jaw, entered the neck and stopped just in front of the neck vertebrae. It is the bullet on the right with the flared petal.

View attachment 742619
I honestly thought it would dig deeper and break the neck. Turns out moose are big, jaw bones are thick and neck muscles are dense on rutted up bulls. A fully expanded Barnes (that one was 2.4x expansion) has to move through a lot of dense material to get all the way through the neck.

Zero complaints on performance with the body shots and they do make a thump!

I’ve been wanting to try the .416 350 gr Speers sized down, but those things are darn near impossible to find. Have in-stock notifications set up a few places, hopefully they show up eventually.

Thanks for the heads up on that .30-06 basic brass. I’ll give those a try. I had Hornady make me a hydraulic forming die for the .400 that’s been working pretty well so far using .35 Whelen cases. It makes enough shoulder to work initially, and after one firing it sharpens up enough for me to feel good about it.

 

[MedRiver]

There is a guy selling . 416"350 Speers on GunBroker. I messaged him and he has a price break at 500 bullets. I submitted an order today. Added to my existing stash, I should be able to shoot them a while. If interested shoot me a PM and I will get you his contact info. He said he had several thousand.