375 Ruger Ammo Test 235grn Barnes VS 235grn Woodleigh

Viral_SIGness

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Because I don't need the extra recoil while trying to make shots out to 200-250m.
I'm confused though, because recoil comes after the shot. How will that effect your.....accuracy I assume?

Your load, using your rifle weight, is producing 35 ft/lbs of recoil roughly. My buffalo load (300gr, 77.1gr powder, 2595fps) is making 45 ft/lbs. Just goes to show how subjective recoil really is. I don't consider 10 ft/lbs a big jump at all, but some do. I wish someone like the Sport Science people would do a complete study on rifle recoil.

MV of 2790, the 235 TSX is likely not going to expand at 250 yards, as it's already down to 1900 fps. I know they say 1800 min, but what I've used of them, you want to stay above 2000 on the impact velocity. The Weldcore would likely be better than the TSX at your speeds. A 250 TTSX, due to the plastic tip, will expand easier, and the added BC will help you carry that energy farther.

The 270 LRX with 66gr of RL15, starting at 2550, is still over 2000 fps at 250 yards. Plus, this load will only make 34 ft/lbs of recoil. Less recoil than your 235 load, yet carries more speed and energy down range.
 

Aussie_Hunter

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I'm confused though, because recoil comes after the shot. How will that effect your.....accuracy I assume?

Your load, using your rifle weight, is producing 35 ft/lbs of recoil roughly. My buffalo load (300gr, 77.1gr powder, 2595fps) is making 45 ft/lbs. Just goes to show how subjective recoil really is. I don't consider 10 ft/lbs a big jump at all, but some do. I wish someone like the Sport Science people would do a complete study on rifle recoil.

MV of 2790, the 235 TSX is likely not going to expand at 250 yards, as it's already down to 1900 fps. I know they say 1800 min, but what I've used of them, you want to stay above 2000 on the impact velocity. The Weldcore would likely be better than the TSX at your speeds. A 250 TTSX, due to the plastic tip, will expand easier, and the added BC will help you carry that energy farther.

The 270 LRX with 66gr of RL15, starting at 2550, is still over 2000 fps at 250 yards. Plus, this load will only make 34 ft/lbs of recoil. Less recoil than your 235 load, yet carries more speed and energy down range.
Really you are confused as to how recoil effects accuracy? So you are telling me you could shoot say a heavy recoiling 416 calibre rifle as accurately as you could say a 223 in real life hunting conditions?

The main issue for me is heavy recoil and high powered scopes, more recoil + less eye relief = split head. If I don't need anymore power why bother with more recoil? Haven't looked at the 270grn LRX, the 2 loads I have worked up I am happy with and as mentioned in the original post will do me until the time comes I feel like spending the time working up something else.
 

Viral_SIGness

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Really you are confused as to how recoil effects accuracy? So you are telling me you could shoot say a heavy recoiling 416 calibre rifle as accurately as you could say a 223 in real life hunting conditions?
Yes. That's why people always say "practice until you are proficient with it". The recoil should "surprise" you on every shot.

I said in my first reply, I was not trying to be offensive. I just pitched alternative ways to carry more velocity to your 250 goal.
 

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Unless I'm sadly mistaken, the velocities mentioned in previous posts this article were from several different caliber rifles. Hopefully, no one is getting them confused.
 

Viral_SIGness

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I'm going to say my piece, but again, I really did not mean any offense. Your velocities are not great enough to be hitting anything at 250. The TSX just will not reliably perform at that speed, but the Weldcore will.

If you went to 76gr with the 235 and it gave you 3000 fps your recoil would go from 35 ft/lbs to 39. Thats all I'm saying.

On the subject of recoil. If it is effecting your accuracy, you are flinching, and need more practice. I can shoot my .300 Win Mag as well as my .22-250, and if I can't shoot my .375 Ruger as well as my .300, then I don't deserve to be going after live animals with it. Neutering a cartridge can't cure flinching.
 

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I'm going to say my piece, but again, I really did not mean any offense. Your velocities are not great enough to be hitting anything at 250. The TSX just will not reliably perform at that speed, but the Weldcore will.

If you went to 76gr with the 235 and it gave you 3000 fps your recoil would go from 35 ft/lbs to 39. Thats all I'm saying.

On the subject of recoil. If it is effecting your accuracy, you are flinching, and need more practice. I can shoot my .300 Win Mag as well as my .22-250, and if I can't shoot my .375 Ruger as well as my .300, then I don't deserve to be going after live animals with it. Neutering a cartridge can't cure flinching.
It seems to me you are hear to make smart remarks like "I'm confused though, because recoil comes after the shot" Sounds as though you are quite the rifleman if you can shoot all your rifles equally well, you are better than me.

I'm putting the 235grn projectiles travelling at 2790fps into 0.6" groups and that is neutering a cartridge to cure my flinching? Since we are making smart remarks, can you please tell me what the velocity and recoil has to be in the 375Ruger so I am no longer "neutering" it? Also, so all the people out there that can only shoot lets say 1.5" group with a 375Ruger don't deserve to go hunting with it? Or does that only apply to you?

Now all the BS and smart remarks are out of the way let's look at reality and what I can actually do in real life, not just on a keyboard on a forum.

Yes for me recoil with high powered scopes and trying to shoot accurately at what I call long distances 200-250m is difficult. l think it is safe to say a 3-9 scope is relatively high powered for a 375 calibre rifle. If this is the case for me why would I want to add more recoil to the equation?

As you mentioned above it appears as though a 250grn projectile may provide better performance at longer distances with similar recoil, interesting and an actual positive contribution to the discussion. I may possibly look at this option at some point as I mentioned in my original post. I also agree with you in regards to the Woodleigh providing better expansion than the Barnes at longer ranges which I also mentioned in my original post "I suspect it will expand better than the Barnes at the longer ranges where velocity is starting to drop which is perfect for what I am doing with shooting large pigs around crops."

Flinching, now even though this is getting off topic from the OP I will address it anyway. I think with this load there is zero flinching involved. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the results. To get the above accuracy out of a 375 calibre Ruger I was super happy, I don't think Ruger Alaskans are really known for being nail drivers so I doubt there is any flinching involved here. Having said this, do I find it easier to shoot lower recoiling rifles like my 30-06 more accurately - yes 100% I do. Now I am sure there is the odd shooter out there that can fire a 500 Jeffery off the bench as well as they can a 223 but to be honest I haven't come across that person yet. There is a reason a large number of people that shoot heavy recoiling rifles also practice with a 22lr at times because they know they can shoot it well and easily off the bench and it gives them piece of mind to know you are shooting with good form, not flinching etc. I own a 500 Jeffery and can shoot it well off the bench for 5-8 rounds, after that the recoil does start to become an issue for me, shooting it off hand I can shoot it well for around 15-20 rounds before recoil becomes an issue for me. But for me to not consider recoil as a POSSIBLE issue when it comes to shooting any large calibre rifle accurately would be foolish.
 

Viral_SIGness

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It seems to me you are hear to make smart remarks like "I'm confused though, because recoil comes after the shot" Sounds as though you are quite the rifleman if you can shoot all your rifles equally well, you are better than me.

I'm putting the 235grn projectiles travelling at 2790fps into 0.6" groups and that is neutering a cartridge to cure my flinching? Since we are making smart remarks, can you please tell me what the velocity and recoil has to be in the 375Ruger so I am no longer "neutering" it? Also, so all the people out there that can only shoot lets say 1.5" group with a 375Ruger don't deserve to go hunting with it? Or does that only apply to you?

Now all the BS and smart remarks are out of the way let's look at reality and what I can actually do in real life, not just on a keyboard on a forum.

Yes for me recoil with high powered scopes and trying to shoot accurately at what I call long distances 200-250m is difficult. l think it is safe to say a 3-9 scope is relatively high powered for a 375 calibre rifle. If this is the case for me why would I want to add more recoil to the equation?

As you mentioned above it appears as though a 250grn projectile may provide better performance at longer distances with similar recoil, interesting and an actual positive contribution to the discussion. I may possibly look at this option at some point as I mentioned in my original post. I also agree with you in regards to the Woodleigh providing better expansion than the Barnes at longer ranges which I also mentioned in my original post "I suspect it will expand better than the Barnes at the longer ranges where velocity is starting to drop which is perfect for what I am doing with shooting large pigs around crops."

Flinching, now even though this is getting off topic from the OP I will address it anyway. I think with this load there is zero flinching involved. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the results. To get the above accuracy out of a 375 calibre Ruger I was super happy, I don't think Ruger Alaskans are really known for being nail drivers so I doubt there is any flinching involved here. Having said this, do I find it easier to shoot lower recoiling rifles like my 30-06 more accurately - yes 100% I do. Now I am sure there is the odd shooter out there that can fire a 500 Jeffery off the bench as well as they can a 223 but to be honest I haven't come across that person yet. There is a reason a large number of people that shoot heavy recoiling rifles also practice with a 22lr at times because they know they can shoot it well and easily off the bench and it gives them piece of mind to know you are shooting with good form, not flinching etc. I own a 500 Jeffery and can shoot it well off the bench for 5-8 rounds, after that the recoil does start to become an issue for me, shooting it off hand I can shoot it well for around 15-20 rounds before recoil becomes an issue for me. But for me to not consider recoil as a POSSIBLE issue when it comes to shooting any large calibre rifle accurately would be foolish.
You took my comments as smart remarks, and they weren't. I never said I was Lucas McCain either. Any new rifle I get, I practice with it all I can, but what does a 1.5" group have to so with it? If a guy shoots 3 inch groups with his .223 and his .375, then he is doing the best he can, and thats all that matters. I said shoot them the same (referring to my .300 and .22-250), I am not there yet with my .375 Ruger, and I'm not ashamed to say it. I've got a way, that when I shoot, I let the rifle startle me. I could not begin to explain how I do it, it just works that way.

I put a 1-4x24 on my .375, because of the great eye relief. We've all had those moments hunting when you rush to get the shot off and haven't shouldered the rifle properly.

I'll say this again, recoil has zero to do with accuracy. The weak link, is the nut behind the trigger that has to attach to the two in a sequence of events. Was not a wise crack, I was honestly confused as to what you meant, and no, I'm not perfect either.

Grafs has some 250 grain Hornady GMX in stock. I believe they have 5 pedals instead of 4 like the Barnes. I made this for you, with the 250 GMX @ 2800 and a 100yd zero. This will be 39 ft/lbs of recoil or so.
20210403_233211.jpg


As well as the 250 @ 2600. This is at 35 ft/lbs where you are now.
20210403_233940.jpg


I honestly, and sincerely apologize if I offended you. Was never my intentions.
 
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Viral_SIGness

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PS: your accuracy results are great for sure. I've seen a few guys with similar results from the African and Alaskan, but not a lot. I'm not sure if it's because the guns aren't capable, the shooter isn't capable, loads aren't capable, or shooter doesn't put in the time to find a load it does like.

Something that has helped me a lot, is I polished all the contact surfaces of the trigger parts, to a mirror. I then cut down a Glock striker spring to make a new trigger spring. It's very crisp, and is in the 2.5 lb range. Even if you don't change springs, definitely polish the parts. Takes the gritty feel out.
 
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You took my comments as smart remarks, and they weren't. I never said I was Lucas McCain either. Any new rifle I get, I practice with it all I can, but what does a 1.5" group have to so with it? If a guy shoots 3 inch groups with his .223 and his .375, then he is doing the best he can, and thats all that matters. I said shoot them the same (referring to my .300 and .22-250), I am not there yet with my .375 Ruger, and I'm not ashamed to say it. I've got a way, that when I shoot, I let the rifle startle me. I could not begin to explain how I do it, it just works that way.

I put a 1-4x24 on my .375, because of the great eye relief. We've all had those moments hunting when you rush to get the shot off and haven't shouldered the rifle properly.

I'll say this again, recoil has zero to do with accuracy. The weak link, is the nut behind the trigger that has to attach to the two in a sequence of events. Was not a wise crack, I was honestly confused as to what you meant, and no, I'm not perfect either.

Grafs has some 250 grain Hornady GMX in stock. I believe they have 5 pedals instead of 4 like the Barnes. I made this for you, with the 250 GMX @ 2800 and a 100yd zero. This will be 39 ft/lbs of recoil or so.
View attachment 396016

As well as the 250 @ 2600. This is at 35 ft/lbs where you are now.
View attachment 396017

I honestly, and sincerely apologize if I offended you. Was never my intentions.
@Viral_SIGness
Do the pedals on the GMX maker go any faster.
Yes I'm in a stirring mood
 

Aussie_Hunter

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You took my comments as smart remarks, and they weren't. I never said I was Lucas McCain either. Any new rifle I get, I practice with it all I can, but what does a 1.5" group have to so with it? If a guy shoots 3 inch groups with his .223 and his .375, then he is doing the best he can, and thats all that matters. I said shoot them the same (referring to my .300 and .22-250), I am not there yet with my .375 Ruger, and I'm not ashamed to say it. I've got a way, that when I shoot, I let the rifle startle me. I could not begin to explain how I do it, it just works that way.

I put a 1-4x24 on my .375, because of the great eye relief. We've all had those moments hunting when you rush to get the shot off and haven't shouldered the rifle properly.

I'll say this again, recoil has zero to do with accuracy. The weak link, is the nut behind the trigger that has to attach to the two in a sequence of events. Was not a wise crack, I was honestly confused as to what you meant, and no, I'm not perfect either.

Grafs has some 250 grain Hornady GMX in stock. I believe they have 5 pedals instead of 4 like the Barnes. I made this for you, with the 250 GMX @ 2800 and a 100yd zero. This will be 39 ft/lbs of recoil or so.
View attachment 396016

As well as the 250 @ 2600. This is at 35 ft/lbs where you are now.
View attachment 396017

I honestly, and sincerely apologize if I offended you. Was never my intentions.
Recoil effects accuracy indirectly, I thought I made it obvious that's what I was getting at but maybe I didn't? Recoil effects the shooter and the shooter effects accuracy. I'm sure there is some freak of nature out there that is completely impervious to recoil but I don't know them. Appreciate the honest and sincere apology as well as the load data which I will look at in more detail tomorrow. It's 8:30pm here and I just got home from hunting using the ammo and rifle in question. 5 pigs down for the afternoon, longest shot was around 160m, shortest shot was literally 5m (y)
 

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PS: your accuracy results are great for sure. I've seen a few guys with similar results from the African and Alaskan, but not a lot. I'm not sure if it's because the guns aren't capable, the shooter isn't capable, loads aren't capable, or shooter doesn't put in the time to find a load it does like.

Something that has helped me a lot, is I polished all the contact surfaces of the trigger parts, to a mirror. I then cut down a Glock striker spring to make a new trigger spring. It's very crisp, and is in the 2.5 lb range. Even if you don't change springs, definitely polish the parts. Takes the gritty feel out.
Had my gunsmith work on the trigger for me already, I think he said it is at 3.5lbs now, was 5 to begin with from memory. My 2 other Rugers I haven't touched the triggers, I mostly use them at shorter ranges so the heavier trigger doesn't bother me too much.
 

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Spent some time today testing a couple of loads I have worked up for my 375 Ruger Alaskan. As I normally do I thought I would share the results as I think this would be a great plains game load for any of you heading to Africa with a 375Ruger. For me the rifle and ammo is primarily going to be used for big pigs but also some very large thin skinned game (brumbies & scrub bulls). I have worked up loads using bullets at the lighter end of the scale for the .375 calibres, mostly because I want maximum expansion and energy transfer for the pig hunting, I feel that the heavier 300grn bullets will provide too much penetration for the task at hand. Bullets in the 250-270grn range will probably also be suitable as well but these loads with the 235grn bullets have worked out great so I will stick to them until the time comes I feel like spending some more time working up new loads for this rifle. Rifle used in the testing as mentioned above is my new to me, older model Ruger Alaskan in a full block alloy bedded Hogue stock with a Redfield 3-9X40 scope and obviously a 20" barrel, rifle weighs in at 9.46lbs.

I nearly use Woodleighs exclusively for all my hunting, and if not a Woodleigh another bonded soft point (DGX Bonded, Swift A-frame, Nosler Accubond) but in this instance I decided to give the Barnes TSX a go as a second option as they are also available in the 235grn weight.

I worked both loads up to be virtually identical.
Hornady brass
Federal LRM gold medal primers
And surprisingly 74.5 grains of Alliant RL15 put the 2 different projectiles at nearly identical velocities, both averaged very close to 2790fps.

Accuracy out of both loads was fantastic, both 3 shot groups at 75m coming in at 0.6 of an inch. There was nothing in it between the 2 different projectiles as far as accuracy goes.
I also did some penetration/expansion testing with the 2 different loads as I nearly always do with new loads I work up, more out of curiosity than anything as I am sure both projectiles are up to the task at hand.
Both projectiles fully penetrated X2 full 20L water drums each at 50 metres, the Barnes actually just managed to pierce the third drum and was sticking out of it, the Woodleigh also managed to put a decent dent and tiny pin hole in the third drum but was recovered in the bottom of the second drum. Penetration was virtually identical in this test.

235grn Barnes TSX
Muzzle Velocity 2790fps
Estimated Impact velocity 2638fps
Penetration 21 inches
Expansion 0.72 inches
Retained Weight 234.1 grains
Weight retention 99.7%

235grn Woodleigh PPSN
Muzzle Velocity 2790fps
Estimated Impact velocity 2638fps
Penetration 21 inches
Expansion 0.73 inches
Retained Weight 186.9 grains
Weight retention 79.6%

For me personally there is nothing in it between these 2 loads/projectiles, super happy with both of them. Obviously the Barnes would probably have the advantage over the Woodleigh on the game with heavier mass as it has better weight retention. The Woodleigh also has it's advantages, I suspect it will expand better than the Barnes at the longer ranges where velocity is starting to drop which is perfect for what I am doing with shooting large pigs around crops. I hope anyone that reads this gets something out of it, pics below of groupings, bullets etc.

View attachment 395743View attachment 395744View attachment 395745View attachment 395746View attachment 395747View attachment 395748View attachment 395749
Thanks for sharing your work, pictures, and hunt report.
 

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@Viral_SIGness
Do the pedals on the GMX maker go any faster.
Yes I'm in a stirring mood
Sure they do, haven't you heard the expression to go faster, put the pedal to the metal! :A Stirring:

According to Hornady's website, looks like the GMX has 6 petals

1618833886093.png
 

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