375 H&H and CRF

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Thanks to this forum and in particular to Mr. mark-hunter, in this thread I discovered something new: controlled feed action.

Since I'm thinking of a new purchase, yes, you got it right ... a 375 H & H, because many of you insist on explaining that it's INDISPENSABLE to hunt in Africa.

I do not believe it but for a moment I want to suppose it's true.
So this morning I called a friend, weapon dealer, asking him for a 375 H & H rifle to spend as little as possible.
His answer surprised me: "if you like a used one too, in this period there are big chances, you find semi-new rifles in this caliber 1/3 of their new price, these calibers no one buys them anymore."

He mentioned CZ and old glorious BRNO CZ perfect models, with prices from 500 to 1,500 euros optics and attacks included, but also many other brands.

I feel that I am making another useless purchase, but as the investment is modest I am willing to risk it.

In conclusion, how useful or indispensable is the action to be CFR?

What is the best brand and models produced with these CRF actions?

Is it better to use this caliber with iron sight or optical sight?

Thank you in advance for your advices. :)
 
Last edited:

mark-hunter

AH elite
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
1,480
Reaction score
1,703
Media
22
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
Thanks to this forum and in particular to Mr. mark-hunter, in this thread I discovered something new: controlled feed action.

Thanks for mentioning me, but I did not really say much on that subject, and there are more knoledgable people on this forum also!

He mentioned CZ and old glorious BRNO CZ perfect models, with prices from 500 to 1,500 euros optics and attacks included, but also many other brands.

Chech rifles BRNO/CZ have very good reputation, generally. And have history - as they are producing mauser since well before ww2, under license.
Take note that also after WW2, when Germany faced international ban on fireams production, english makers of bespoke rifles frequently used check actions for their production of bolt action rifles. (Either Westely richards, or Rigby, or both of them - I need to check details for this in my library, so dont hold me on my word fo this)
Today from Europan makers, you may or could find older masuers from Browning FN - Belgium, Check Brno or newer CZ, Serbian "Zastava". (Zastava is usable, but of lower quality)
Mauser is back in production, but original mauser 98, made by modern mauser - costs, I think cca 8000 eur.
For american makers of CRF, more knoladgable members of forum will have more advice.

What your dealer has given you is good advise.

Finaly, dont bother yourself thinking that it is some useless purchase. I am even considering to purchase one of those for buffalo in 375, 404, or 416, havent decided yet on caliber, but for one hunt only. Later it can be sold again if not needed again.
But in your case, for general PG bag, it is absolutely and definitely "reusable".
It only depends on how passionate you are about next African safari, and how many safaris will be repetated after.

I hunted with 375 HH and it is excellent caliber, ammo available everywhere (including African safari countries) , and recoil is moderate.
 

EZRider

AH senior member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
66
Reaction score
103
Media
2
I do all my hunting with a CZ .375.
It is a great rifle and will be much more useful than any of the .22 calibers in Africa.
Definitely put a good quality optic on it and with lighter bullets it will reach as far as your .308
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Hi Mark-hunter, thank you for your post.

What about sight, do you think is better only Iron sight or with optical sight too?

My dealer mentioned me express too, second hand but in perfect conditions costs 5-7.000 euro insted of 20-30.000 euro new. Think about. :)
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
I do all my hunting with a CZ .375.
It is a great rifle and will be much more useful than any of the .22 calibers in Africa.
Definitely put a good quality optic on it and with lighter bullets it will reach as far as your .308
Thanks for your advice, I will see what kind of optics are mounted on them or I can use one of mine.
What do you think about a swarovski 3-12 x 56? Is it too much for this caliber?
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Since you feel a 375 is a useless purchase, why bother?
Better question, why am I bothering at all?
Hi!
First of all because I know my self... what I have got in mind is not the big five, but a light safari to hunt small and medium antilopes from 10 to 200 kg maximum and I believe my 308 will be more then anough.

In my life I have bought about 50 guns, more then 40 has been mistakes, because of the calibers, stock shape and dimentions, or easily becouse I didn't need them.
Years ago I've decided to buy only what I need and use.
In Europe my 308 W is more then anough and the 375 I will note use.

I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.
 

EZRider

AH senior member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
66
Reaction score
103
Media
2
Hi!
First of all because I know my self... what I have got in mind is not the big five, but a light safari to hunt small and medium antilopes from 10 to 200 kg maximum and I believe my 308 will be more then anough.

In my life I have bought about 50 guns, more then 40 has been mistakes, because of the calibers, stock shape and dimentions, or easily becouse I didn't need them.
Years ago I've decided to buy only what I need and use.
In Europe my 308 W is more then anough and the 375 I will note use.

I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.

You won’t end up selling it, they are very addictive to shoot and very versatile. You could use it anywhere in the world and not just for large or dangerous game.
An optic is a must as you can easily hunt out to 250 m with 230 or 250 gr bullets.
Put on a 1-6 x leupold, or any other brand, with quick detach rings so you can get to the irons if you need to.
Only disadvantage is the CZ is a big, heavy rifle. On the other hand the recoil is very soft because of that and my kids have no problem shooting mine.
 

EZRider

AH senior member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
66
Reaction score
103
Media
2
Here is mine:

3E46D493-6898-4B55-868F-AE875F07594A.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dchamp

AH enthusiast
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
325
Reaction score
381
Location
Bakersfield, California
Media
34
Member of
SCI
Hunted
USA, Australia, Namibia, Canada, Argentina
Please forgive me, but I am going to suggest an alternative to the .375 H&H. Since you are limiting yourself to non dangerous game I would suggest the 9.3x62. It is very versatile and lighter recoiling than the .375 H&H and it can handle Dangerous Game. It is a Classical African Cartridge and IMHO one of the best all around. The 9.3 can handle the smallest to the largest antelope without ruining the trophy and yet carry plenty of punch for the larger game. My son has used it in Africa with great satisfaction and it has now become his only hunting rifle.

If you don't mind spending a little money I would recommend purchasing a Blaser R8 with both the the 9.3x62 and .308 Win. You can get the barrels with or without iron sights, I like them with iron sights as a backup. That way you have one rifle and two barrels. It takes less than a minute to change from one barrel to the other. Their quick mount scope attachment holds zero very well and they are very accurate and dependable.
 

mark-hunter

AH elite
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
1,480
Reaction score
1,703
Media
22
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
Hi Mark-hunter, thank you for your post.

What about sight, do you think is better only Iron sight or with optical sight too?

My dealer mentioned me express too, second hand but in perfect conditions costs 5-7.000 euro insted of 20-30.000 euro new. Think about. :)

All my rifles have iron sights and detachable scopes.
So, yes, go with rifle with iron sights.

Scopes on detachable rings, absolutely. Power 3-9x, 4-12x or similar.
More expereinced hunters suggest, even to have two scopes for safari rifle, for the reason if one gets damage during the travel, or during the hunt, the second one to have spare.
But it is your decision, but two scopes I think is wise to have in remote african hunting grounds.
If you ae buying on budget, consider meybe chech "Meopta", older line R1.

If, by "express" you mean double rifle. Price is really good.
But it is not my personal first choice for plains game. Double rifle - It is for close range, for DG, and second follow up shot on DG if possible.

In europe, same type rifle, is used for driven boar hunts.
I am not sure what is the brand of rifle the dealer is offering, but check on this web site various topics on double rifle. Issues with regulation of barrels, different loads, etc... Some brands are better then others. (Kreighoff, Heym, Chapuis, generaly more appreciated then other Italian brands, mostly)
My pesonal view on this is:
If double rifle is in tropical caliber (from 375 upwards), and not needed for plains game, then it may be useless investement.
If the double rifle is in smaller caliber (less then 375, actually from 9.3 downwards) then it can be used in european driven boar hunts. (its then different type of investemnent), and then it is a classy!
But even then, it would not be my first choice for plains game in Africa. If you are doing driven hunt on boars in Italy, then it is good investement. (provided that you have budget for this)
 

ChrisG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
1,133
Location
Adirondack Park, NY, USA
Media
43
Articles
1
Hunting reports
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NAHC, NRA, Rocky Mtn. Elk Foundation.
Hunted
USA, Canada
Thanks for your advice, I will see what kind of optics are mounted on them or I can use one of mine.
What do you think about a swarovski 3-12 x 56? Is it too much for this caliber?
3-12 is massively over glassed for .375 H&H. for what you will be shooting I would say a maximum of 7x should be sufficient. I mean... I have hit woodchucks in the head at 275 yards with a 4x scope so anything you would be shooting at with a .375 will be huge compared to those.
I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.

Wow, 5,000 to 10,000 Euro is a lot of money for a functional .375 H&H. The fact of the matter remains that the price of a rifle has diminishing returns.

Are rifles that expensive in Italy? In most countries, I would imagine a good functional CRF .375 could be had for $1,000-$2,500

an extra $2,000 buys you nice wood and maybe a tuned action, glass bedding, etc.

another $2,000 buys you some proprietary action with some engraving, or a custom fit stock. i.e Blaser, Merkel,... etc.

After that any additional $ or euros are all just engraving, wood quality, custom fit... Rifles like Rigby's, Magnum Mausers, Kilimanjaro... etc. fit into this category.

And that's all for a brand new rifle made to fit you. I would love a .375 H&H Rigby, but I don't want to drop the price of a brand new car on a rifle that will get beat in the woods. They are beautiful and slick but, In my opinion, even with all the refinements.. I think they are overpriced. I could buy a Magnum Mauser Action from Granite Mountain, put a match grade barrel on it, sights, quarter rib and a scope and build a stock from claro walnut, checker it and fit and finish the rifle to be identical to one of the new Rigby's and still be under $8,000.

And that's all if you are into that. which it sounds like you aren't. Why spend that much money on something you think is unnecessary to begin with?
 

leslie hetrick

AH fanatic
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
662
Reaction score
1,458
Location
pa. u,s.A.
Media
422
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
several sporting clubs
Hunted
several
two of my seven CZ,s, a 550 american in .375 H&H and 550 American in 6.5x55, ex rifles for the money.

DSCN0022 (2).JPG
 

sheephunterab

AH fanatic
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
808
Reaction score
896
Location
Alberta, Canada
Website
www.outdoorquesttv.com
Media
52
Hunting reports
Africa
5
Europe
2
Australia/NZ
1
Member of
SCI, Wild Sheep Foundation, AFGA
Hunted
Tanzania, Namibia, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Argentina, Canada, USA, Russia
I'd agree the 375H&H is indispensable in Africa...the CRF not so much. Push feed...CFR....they both work equally well in my opinion. I own several of each.
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Please forgive me, but I am going to suggest an alternative to the .375 H&H. Since you are limiting yourself to non dangerous game I would suggest the 9.3x62. It is very versatile and lighter recoiling than the .375 H&H and it can handle Dangerous Game. It is a Classical African Cartridge and IMHO one of the best all around. The 9.3 can handle the smallest to the largest antelope without ruining the trophy and yet carry plenty of punch for the larger game. My son has used it in Africa with great satisfaction and it has now become his only hunting rifle.

If you don't mind spending a little money I would recommend purchasing a Blaser R8 with both the the 9.3x62 and .308 Win. You can get the barrels with or without iron sights, I like them with iron sights as a backup. That way you have one rifle and two barrels. It takes less than a minute to change from one barrel to the other. Their quick mount scope attachment holds zero very well and they are very accurate and dependable.
Thank you for your advice, I will consider it.
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
All my rifles have iron sights and detachable scopes.
So, yes, go with rifle with iron sights.

Scopes on detachable rings, absolutely. Power 3-9x, 4-12x or similar.
More expereinced hunters suggest, even to have two scopes for safari rifle, for the reason if one gets damage during the travel, or during the hunt, the second one to have spare.
But it is your decision, but two scopes I think is wise to have in remote african hunting grounds.
If you ae buying on budget, consider meybe chech "Meopta", older line R1.

If, by "express" you mean double rifle. Price is really good.
Thank you Mark-hunter for your advices.

Ebout the express there is a misanderstand, I though you need an express.
 

mark-hunter

AH elite
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
1,480
Reaction score
1,703
Media
22
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
Thanks for suggestion, but at this moment I am at lower budget limit.
For buffalo hunt, probably I will go with bolt action.
 

PHOENIX PHIL

AH ambassador
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
9,109
Reaction score
7,416
Media
53
Articles
2
Hunting reports
Africa
8
USA/Canada
2
Member of
SCI
Hunted
USA, S. Africa
@308W,

You have a peculiar way of asking for her advice and then dismissing the experience of others in Africa that you don't have. I followed your other thread and was about to post replies on a couple of occasions and then didn't. It just didn't seem like I could add to what others had already contributed. So I'll try now in this thread.

I'll say this. There is a difference between what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. I think the .308Win is a great caliber. And you most definitely CAN kill an eland with one. My then 15 year old son killed an eland with his. I won't go into the circumstances too much, but it was what we had available and we also had a pair of wonderful dogs to help with any follow up. First shot likely would've resulted in a dead bull, but ethics demanded following up and putting the animal down as soon as possible. With the help of the dogs and few more shots, the bull was down.

Having said that and regardless of my son being a skinny kid at that time, I sure wish I would not have left my .375H&H in the truck. I would've handed it to him and if his first shot with that had been in the same place as his .308W was, I have no doubt that bull would've died much sooner.

I suppose somewhere along the line someone has probably even killed a giraffe with a .308Win, so I don't doubt that it CAN be done.

But these are both of examples of animals you SHOULD NOT hunt with a .308Win, especially if you're capable of shooting a more appropriate caliber.

You would be quite impressed if you saw the result of a .375H&H on a larger animal in comparison to smaller calibers. For me using a proper caliber is part of the ethics of putting the animal down as quickly as possible. So for me, this argument being about what you can do or what you need to hunt with is pointless. Pick a caliber that's appropriate for the size of the game you're pursuing, that's what should be done.

For most PG species, I'd say your .308W is a great choice. But pairing it with a .375H&H would be a wise idea for the larger game and to have a backup rifle should something crap out on the other.
 

308W

AH senior member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
21
Wow, 5,000 to 10,000 Euro is a lot of money for a functional .375 H&H.
Not for a functional one but for a nice or beautifull safari grade. Many times I have seen the prices in this range.

And that's all if you are into that. which it sounds like you aren't. Why spend that much money on something you think is unnecessary to begin with?
Sorry but... what are you talking about?
In my first post I have spoken about 500-1.500 euro for a second hand rifle.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
35,585
Messages
664,088
Members
60,282
Latest member
GretaAkins
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris wrote on jfowler812's profile.
hi Mr fowler

im happy to do these deals for 2021

i will knock off 10% off each deal if you take 2 so $18000 per package

look forward to your response

regards
Mule deer and Colorado elk seasons almost done! Hunters driving farm roads, looking for racks, their PH driving them along, I ask that you not pull into my drive. The buck behind me, on the boundary line of the GMU somehow knows. The hunter laughs, I would invite you in to see my Searcy rifles but social distancing prevails, darkness arrives and the buck slides away into secret tree grove...
Boyd Brooks wrote on Skinnersblade's profile.
Ellwood Epps has 1 box of 25-20 in stock. Look them up on the web. They are located in Orilla Ontario.
Lkhntr wrote on Warpig602's profile.
On the vx6 2-12 what does the zl2 stand for?

Thanks, Oliver
bowjijohn wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
Many thanks for re formatting my article for the forum

I served my time in both the bush and during the bush war

I hope it did it justice

Education is where it is at - without it the wild places are history

You - sir - are well placed to make a difference

J
 
Top