338wm vs 375HH for use on large PG

[JG26Irish_2]

I just watched a nice 338wm vs 375HH YouTube video that compared Nosler E-Tip and AccuBond ammo for both rifles and it was nearly a draw but both testers leaned toward the 375 for PG and Grizzly applications. I enjoy over thinking these things so let me set the table:

My son and I are going on a Texas Nilgai hunt next year. Nilgai looks like an Eland but is about 1/2 as large at 600ish pounds. But, it is reported to have extremely thick, tough hide like a Cape Buffalo and a reputation for being harder to kill than some PG. Best I can gauge, it is about as tough as a Blue Wildebeest and about the same size as a very large WB. Nilgai are shy, with sharp eyes and prone to run like Black Wildebeest. We were told to expect shots in the 200-300y range but not to be surprised at 400y shots as the open terrain makes closer stalks difficult. So, we need a rifle that can accurately deliver a bullet capable of killing Elk or Wildebeest (1500ft-lbs) at those distances.

Our outfitter requires a minimum caliber of 300 win mag for this hunt. We have available two 375HH rifles both with 1-6x optics and two 338wm rifles one with a 1-8x Arken LPVO with QD mount or a 4-16 Arken scope and the other with a nice vintage Burris 4x fixed Duplex. All the optics are fully functional and very clear above average equipment. Both the 375's are sub 1moa rifles and one of them is more like a 1/2moa with best ammo. Of the 338's the one with the Burris is a Mauser Left hander (My son shoots left handed) and it has a custom bbl and also shoots to 1/2moa. The last 338 is a Sako that up until now only shoots about 1.5" groups at best. I am still piddling with it and trying different loads and it gets better with effort but is still not up to my standards.

Since my son shoots left handed we are leaning toward having him hunt with the Mauser LH rifle in 338wm and since I like the ballistics of the 338 out at the longer ranges, I was leaning toward the other 338 provided I can get comfortable shooting things with it out to at least 300y. Keep in mind that up until now, I have only shot it at 100y since I am still testing and chrono'ing ammo in it and attempting to get better precision out of it. Then a new development occurred.

Do any of you have experience with Double Tap ammo? I found some for the 375 rifles.

• DT-375HH loaded with 235g TSX bullets at 3100fps MV from a 24" bbl

That is hot enough to turn the old 375 into a real 400y rifle. Most other loads I considered to be good out to 250 or maybe 300y as I want to be hunting at distances where the velocity at impact is over 2000fps regardless of rifle to insure good expansion of the projectile. Buth the little hotties from Double Tap are arriving at 2066fps at 400y and only drop 1.1mil at that range.

Compared to the 225g Barnes ammo for the 338 that have MV=2925 chrono verified and at 400y are running 2239fps, but they drop more with 1.6mil drop at that same distance.

I have yet to shoot or chrono the DT ammo in my 375 but most loads chrono about 70-80 fps faster than box quotes on most that I have tested. So, until tested I am expecting it to leave the muzzle with at least 3100fps. I know the easy answer is pick the one that shoots the best since they both will do the job ballistically. That is true. But, it is more complicated than that. My best 375 shoots lights out but has been known to misfire on rare occasion with some ammo/primers due to lighter primer strikes. Work by a gunsmith has improved this but I worry about it. My 338 is my choice for now, if I can get it at least shooting 1 moa. I can also shoot my other 375 which is less accurate but more reliable. Hmmm. That 2nd 375 is still more accurate than my 338 at the moment. If it likes the new light weight, high speed ammo it could be the dark horse in the race.

• The 338's will be fed 225g Nosler AccuBond or 200 Torpy Bonded Tipped ammo.
• The 375's will have the options of 300g Nosler AccuBond (preferred), or the hotter 250g TBBC or the Hottest 235g TSX

I seem to change my mind on this every other day as I want to have us hunting as a pair with one guide and one (Primary) hunter wielding the 338 and the other the 375 so that we have the long gong 338 for distance and the hammer 375 for shots inside of 250y and as a backup shooter to the primary hunter and then swap places for the 2nd Nilgai we hunt. To make that grand plan work I really need to get all four rifles finely dialed in.

But, practicing and memorizing the ballistics for two rifles on one hunt is more complex and it might be better, and more simple to focus on one rifle each and be done with it. Being a Safari hunter, I am used to juggling multiple loads and rifles on the fly and so am more confident and competent doing so than my son who is lacking that experience. But, he is a primo marksman once he gets practiced with a given rifle. He has shot the 375's some already and handles them well. I want him to use the left handed 338 as long as he likes it since he is left handed. I plan to gift it to him provided he likes it after trying it out. Recoil between the 375 and 338s are not enough different to matter.

We can upgrade the scope on the Mauser if that is needed but it shoots pretty fine with the 4x already. If you have read this far, please comment with what you recommend as I am all ears. Mostly, I wrote it all down as a means of organizing my thoughts so, you all do not have to read it at all if you want. Pics of the LH Mauser 338 and my 375 for drool factor. They are the two I want to take unless something changes like I find a sub moa load for the Sako. "The beatings will continue on a daily basis until the quality of our product improves."

Mauser 3000LH 338wm Shaw bbl

Enfield P14 ER Shaw Custom - 375HH​

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Both are lovely calibers for all species of African plains game. The .375 Holland & Holland Magnum also comes with the advantage of being permissible for dangerous game in all African Safari destinations. Handy in case you happen to fancy a mixed bag hunt.

 

[Hunt anything]

I think you answered your own question. Since you’re hunting 2X1, have the primary shooter carry the .375 as a close shot may be required to shoot quickly and the backup carry the .338, on a longer shot you should have time to swap out. With that being said you just never know how those squirrelly things are going to act.

 

[dogcat1]

Don't over think this. Either work well with the right bullet.
Use TSX or TBBC or A-Frames and go practice.

 

[pilar]

I vote 375 , because I don’t have a 338
Nilgai are tough but a good TSX or bonded, up the leg into the shoulder like most African game or a neck shot / CNS disruption is optimal ( they don’t bleed much)
A tag team on them / both hunters shooting at same time braking the shoulder area
Or backing up the other in case it gets back up works well.
Having an accurate 375 you should use it , but imo shot placement and bullet quality is more important then caliber.
Best of luck on your adventure

 

[Mekaniks]

Exactly what @dogcat1 says…. Don’t overthink it. Use good bullets and take the one you like to shoot

 

[375Ruger416]

I’d try to get both 338’s shooting well and take matching cartridges.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I vote 375 , because I don’t have a 338
Nilgai are tough but a good TSX or bonded, up the leg into the shoulder like most African game or a neck shot / CNS disruption is optimal ( they don’t bleed much)

A tag team on them / both hunters shooting at same time braking the shoulder area
Or backing up the other in case it gets back up works well.
Having an accurate 375 you should use it , but imo shot placement and bullet quality is more important then caliber.
Best of luck on your adventure

Hunting as a team, is exactly as I have planned it with the primary shooter working with the guide while the secondary carry and deploy his own sticks and as long as time is available, set up to shoot as the same time. Primary shoot to take his shot at the heart/lung region while the secondary to aim higher for the shoulder/spine/neck to anchor the beast with a CNS hit. It is not perfect as getting a well timed 2nd shot in will be tricky but any 2nd hit is upping our odds of meat in the freezer. Plus it gets us both in on each others hunt as more than observer. I have seen this method used on Cape Buffalo with amazing result. The two brothers hunt with a 416 Rigby with iron sights (Primary) and a 375HH with low power scope (Secondary) and both shoot more or less together. They share the rifles and take turns with them. This is our plan regardless of which rifles we hunt with.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I’d try to get both 338’s shooting well and take matching cartridges.

I am still working on my 338 to improve its performance. It is on my shooting bench now to have action screw torque re-checked and then some new loads tested at the range. Still leaning toward a 375/338 combo to hunt with.

It is not that my 338 shoots bad. But when you have another rifle that shoots 0.5-0.7" groups with just about any ammo, it is hard to want to pick up the other one that shoots groups twice that size.

 

[BeeMaa]

Two 357H&H's will have the advantage of matching ammo and the ability to hunt DG. That's where I fall on it. Best of luck and enjoy the hunt whichever way you decide.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Two 357H&H's will have the advantage of matching ammo and the ability to hunt DG. That's where I fall on it. Best of luck and enjoy the hunt whichever way you decide.

Thank you. Well said. If I were shopping for possible rifle purchase, I would agree with you 100%. In this case, the four rifles under consideration are already in our possession. Plus, due to my son being a Left Handed shooter, his choice is all but made as he will hunt with the nice little Mauser 3000LH in 338wm. The real question is if I will hunt with the other 338 or my well used 375? I am totally confident in my 375 having used it multiple times on African game as well as long range tgts at the practice range. But with most of my ammo being 300g it begins to slow a lot out past 250-300y. I can hit beasts beyond that distance but worry about lack of expansion once velocity drops below 2000fps. I really consider the 375 to be in its element as a medium range rifle. There are better options for shots at 400 or 500y.

I do hunt DG with the 375's but the range is always much less. But not much DG to be had in Texas, unless you stray onto a pasture that contains a territorial Longhorn bull. This discussion is only in regards to a planned Nilgai hunt in 2026. We are blessed with an abundance of rifles and the time to play with them all prior to loading up for the hunt. Either choice is capable of killing anything in North America as well as any PG we would encounter in Africa. Pursuit of dangerous game would be a different subject.

Our plan is to try to complete the selection this month and then likely use our chosen rifles this fall in our KY & WV deer hunts just for fun and field practice and then hone their use at longer ranges on steel plates over the winter. It gives me an excuse to go to the range and practice, etc.

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

When in doubt, bring the more accurate rifle = 375 for you and 338 for him (LH)

Advantage:
1) It’s fun to compare terminal ballistics of the two
2) God made the 375 H&H special

Reminds me of reading how Boddington shot some critter at 400 with a 375 using 235s (lechwe I think). Definitely doable.

 

[SafariCurious]

I think 400 yard shots on a tough animal could be a good enough excuse to get a 300 PRC.

 

[BryceM]

I have a deer hunt coming up and asked the guide about what I should bring for a backup 2nd rifle. His reply was something like “Just bring one. The guys who bring two seem to have problems actually getting their deer.”

Beware the guy with only one rifle. He probably knows how to use it.

Keep it simple!

 

[RedTag]

I prefer a Magnum cartridge with an overall length of 3.6”; anything less is, well, less.

 

[AZDAVE]

Like many of us do you are overthinking it.
338 for your son and 375 for you and go.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I recently spent some time at the range with my 338wm and my 375HH playing with different loads, etc. I did find a load in the 338 that shoots sub moa at 100y. It is the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip ammo in 200g. It is fast at nearly 3000fps and flat and was grouping just under 1" from a cold/cool bbl. I can live with that. I also tried some 225g AccuBond ammo but my 338 does not like it at all. 3" groups was about it. The 338 also likes the Barnes 225g TTSX ammo. It is fast and accurate, at 2925fps. It groups about 1.25" at 100y.

The 375 on the other hand groups sub moa with everything. They don't all shoot to the same POI but they group tight. It loves the 300g Barnes TSX which has been my go to in Africa. It also shoots the 300g AccBond ammo very well but the velocity on the AB ammo is pretty limp compared to the Barnes stuff. The Barnes is smoking along at 2600fps and the Nosler ammo is much milder at right at 2500fps. The BC on the AccuBond is a bit better so that might make it still a possibility. I will be taking it to the longer range next time.

The Federal 250g Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is another option. It is running 2690fps with a nice bonded bullet that our guide likes. I have it zeroed at about 3" high at 100y now.

Finally, I tried the Double Tap 235g TSX ammo. That shit is hot. Chrono'ed just over 3000fps with a 375. It hits paper a full foot higher than the AccuBond ammo, so if I was to use it on game we will need to rezero the rifle. Even with muffs on you can hear the shreak of the bullet as it rips thru the air downrange.

I would like to try it but since our Nilgai guide has veto'ed the use of copper monolithic ammo such as TSX, CX, E-Tip, etc I am not favoring it for the Nilgai hunt. Leaning toward the 250 TBBC. Over thinking?... Yes. The good news is we have two fine viable options in hand now. My plan is to spend some time at 200y, 300y and 400y with both rifles now over the next few weeks to verify dope with the chosen ammo in each and to see how they group at the longer ranges. I have do this already with the 375 and it does pretty good out to those distances. I have never shot the 338 past 100y yet. Soon...