333 Jeffery vs 318 Wesley Richards

[Jefferry404]

I was in the library this morning reading John Taylor regarding these classic cartrridges and guess what, the 318 WR wins with 8 pages vs the 333J with only 6 pages

 

[Huvius]

I think that Taylor tended to devote more ink to the more popular cartridges - those that one may be more likely to encounter.
The 333 is superior to the 318 by most measure but it was rarely encountered in rifles other than Jefferys.
Jeffery also happened to build many 333s on magnum length actions which wasn’t really necessary - I don’t know if the magnum length action was a customer option or if Jeffery just built on whatever action was next in line. The 333 doesn’t require a magnum though.
I think, that in it’s day, the 318 was an “adequate” cartridge for most of what a general sportsman or settler in Africa was going to encounter, just as the 9.3X62 was.

 

[Jefferry404]

the 333J is definitely more juju...
almost like the 338 winmag to the 3006.

 

[Huvius]

the 333J is definitely more juju...
almost like the 338 winmag to the 3006.

Maybe more like the 338WM vs. the 338-‘06 but I agree.
The 333 definitely has more juju! If I were to have only one bolt rifle, the 333 would be up in the list for sure.

 

[rookhawk]

The 318 is awesome for one reason...regulated for 250gr bullets. I've owned them and regret I sold my WR every day.

Heavy for caliber bullets at moderate speeds are why things die so fast using older technology. That's pretty much the summary of all of Pondoro's book. The 333 is zippier, but has a bit worse penetration due to the .318's BC and SD specs on 250gr bullets.

 

[Huvius]

HMMMM…
The 300gr .333” bullet of the 333 Jeffery has worse penetration than the 250gr .330” bullet of the 318 WR?
I’m not following…

 

[rookhawk]

HMMMM…
The 300gr .333” bullet of the 333 Jeffery has worse penetration than the 250gr .330” bullet of the 318 WR?
I’m not following…

Of the .333Js I have seen, including the rimmed versions for double rifles, they are usually regulated for a 250gr bullet. .335BC versus the .318WR that has a .420BC.

I cannot speak to the rarer 300gr 333J bullet design.

 

[Huvius]

Of the .333Js I have seen, including the rimmed versions for double rifles, they are usually regulated for a 250gr bullet. .335BC versus the .318WR that has a .420BC.

I cannot speak to the rarer 300gr 333J bullet design.

They are virtually the same bullet - .003” diameter difference.
Your numbers are incorrect.

 

[318AE]

The most common 333J bullet was the 300 gr. There was a 180 gr 318WR loading as well. The two cartridges are far more similar than different (and the 350 Rigby is in the same category). The bores are 3 thousandths of an inch different. The real difference these days may be that while bullet choices are slim for each, you can actually make 318 cases from 30’06 cases pretty easily, while 333J cases are more of a chore. The 350 Rigby is the only one with a good selection of bullets.

In Pondoro’s time, bullet quality was dubious, especially expanding bullets, and bullets were more specific to proprietary cartridges and manufacturers. His reviews are as much about the quality of the bullet loaded for the cartridge at the time, as the ballistics of the cartridge, with a healthy appreciation for sectional density as well.

 

[rookhawk]

They are virtually the same bullet - .003” diameter difference.
Your numbers are incorrect.

The 318WR 250gr load was mighty long and pointy, it has a .420BC per woodleigh. The 333 J 250gr is short and stubby by design, it has a .335 BC per woodleigh.

No worries on agree/disagree of opinions of which is better, but the woodleigh bullets are perfect copies of the original Kynochs and the data can be found here: https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/264-333-list

 

[318AE]

They are virtually the same bullet - .003” diameter difference.
Your numbers are incorrect.

Agree - for any sectional density calculation, bore diameter is effectively the same. Most common loading for the 333J is 300 gr.

 

[rookhawk]

you can actually make 318 cases from 30’06 cases pretty easily, while 333J cases are more of a chore.

I tried this from my WR and didn't have good results. (new brass resulting in incipient case separation due to the process) I've been told, but never tried, that using 35 Whelen brass and sizing it DOWN to 318WR has better success. My 318WR brass was all Qual-Cart. No issues provided I would just bump the shoulder, never full length size.

318WR and 333J share the same tragic scarcity of components.

 

[Huvius]

The 318WR 250gr load was mighty long and pointy, it has a .420BC per woodleigh. The 333 J 250gr is short and stubby by design, it has a .335 BC per woodleigh.

No worries on agree/disagree of opinions of which is better, but the woodleigh bullets are perfect copies of the original Kynochs and the data can be found here: https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/264-333-list

RN to RN which was the norm of the day, they are, for all purposes, the SAME bullet!!
Forget whatever site is publishing that information, with bullets of the same design, they are maybe 2% different BC at most.
529 vs. 539

Ballistic Coefficient Calculator – Estimate Bullet Performance

Quickly calculate the ballistic coefficient (BC) of your bullet with our free online coefficient calculator. Simply enter weight, diameter, and shape to estimate aerodynamic efficiency and optimize long-range accuracy.

blackbasin.com

 

[Jefferry404]

Hence my dilemma. Building a poor man’s “classic” 338-06, Mauser 98, wood stock and do not know to call it a modern 318WR (bullet weight) or 333J (bullet diameter).
To quote Doctor Parnassus “To many choices”
But at least will have period sight bases, here is ear base styled of WR.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Jefferry404 asks about a poor mans classic in .338-06
How close is the .338-06 to either the .318WR or the .333J. I don't want to start an argument, just curious! Would that be a viable option if you didn't mind it not actually being a nice old ctg?