1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer 6.5x54, Questions

7x57Joe

AH enthusiast
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
295
Reaction score
355
Location
USA
Media
26
Dean, I think you did great although not a steal by any means, it is more than reasonable especially for the condition of it. I would've tore the pocket of my jeans getting the money out!;):D
 

HWL

AH elite
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,065
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Germany
Media
193
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
Hi Dean

Your mount is a "Wiener Schnaepper Montage", means "snap mount from vienna"

NPV means "Nitro Proof Vienna"....

At that time, there where two proof houses in Austria, Vienna NPV and Ferlach NPF.

All the Schoenauers of that time (1922) are NPV

C6,5 means, it is a 6,5mm barrel


HWL
 

DmacD

AH veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
165
Reaction score
204
Location
Ontario, Canada
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Canada, U.S.A., Namibia, England
Hi Dean

Your mount is a "Wiener Schnaepper Montage", means "snap mount from vienna"

NPV means "Nitro Proof Vienna"....

At that time, there where two proof houses in Austria, Vienna NPV and Ferlach NPF.

All the Schoenauers of that time (1922) are NPV

C6,5 means, it is a 6,5mm barrel


HWL
Thank you for the information HWL, I appreciate it. Any and all information that trickles down to me just adds a little bit more personality to that old rifle. The fact that the mounts and scope come from the same time period make me want to take it hunting this fall even more.
 

Trakehner

AH senior member
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
51
Reaction score
55
Lovely rifles, and factory ammo is fairly easily available. I’ve got a 1905 & 1908 Mannlichers...painfully accurate. The 1905 was my grandfather’s and I got to use it tagging along on safaris when I was a kid. Great rifles...shoot it, they’re tough rifles and the scopes can be rebuilt.
 

Bruce

AH elite
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
967
Location
South Africa
Media
59
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
SAGA/ Cape Hunters/ SA Hunters Association
Hunted
Namibia/Zimbabwe/Zambia/ South Africa/ Botswana/ Tanzania
Eessshhh..my heart bleeds just looking at your fotos of a SUPERB rifle..congrats!
 

Dirtdart

Gold supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
448
Reaction score
369
Media
163
Member of
Life Member SCI, Benefactor NRA, NMLRA.
Hunted
RSA, Namibia
Could one of you shed some light on this one for me please? The photo is of the front of the receiver on a 1903. Thanks!
DSC03333.jpg
 

HWL

AH elite
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,065
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Germany
Media
193
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
This rifle was made between 1938 and 1945, when Austria was part of Germany.

A piece of history, do not destroy it by mounting a scope on it.....

HWL
 

Dirtdart

Gold supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
448
Reaction score
369
Media
163
Member of
Life Member SCI, Benefactor NRA, NMLRA.
Hunted
RSA, Namibia
This rifle was made between 1938 and 1945, when Austria was part of Germany.

A piece of history, do not destroy it by mounting a scope on it.....

HWL
I have no intention of altering this one as it appears to be original. I have never seen one marked this way but my experience is limited. Congratulations on acquiring that 9.3x64! Thank you again for the education.
Dirtdart
 

DmacD

AH veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
165
Reaction score
204
Location
Ontario, Canada
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Canada, U.S.A., Namibia, England
An update of sorts on how this rifle shoots for me. First the good... it will group nice 1.5 inch groups at 100m, and I have had no problems hitting the 200m and 300m gongs at my local shooting range. This is all while peering through the scope. Very pleased.
Now the bad... I found a steady supply of Prvi Partisan ammo to feed this rifle, decent price, easy to get shipped to me. Now, when I drop one shell at a time onto the breech and close the bolt, no problem at all. If, however, I load one or several shells into the magazine then try to close the bolt - no go. I took the rifle to my gunsmith and it seems to be in perfect mechanical order. We then tried some vintage Dominion brand (1960's ?) ammo he had on hand, and all of them fed through very slick, no hang-ups.
Either the shoulder of the Prvi Partisan ammo is a little different and gets hung up in the magazine, or the bullets themselves are too short/too fat to slide up the feeding ramp.
Has anyone experienced anything similar in their 1903's ? Any ideas or suggestions would really make my day.
Thanks
 

Hammergun

AH senior member
Joined
Jan 23, 2015
Messages
63
Reaction score
83
A common problem in 1903's with Privi ammo. Mine does it too. On another forum a poster said that the 1903 is very sensitive to over all length of the cartridge. He stated the Privi is a bit shorter than spec and this causes the problem. I just polished the feed ramp and work the bolt smartly and they feed good enough.

The oal is supposed to be 3 inches. The Privi is about a 16th short.
 
Last edited:

DmacD

AH veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
165
Reaction score
204
Location
Ontario, Canada
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Canada, U.S.A., Namibia, England
A common problem in 1903's with Privi ammo. Mine does it too. On another forum a poster said that the 1903 is very sensitive to over all length of the cartridge. He stated the Privi is a bit shorter than spec and this causes the problem. I just polished the feed ramp and work the bolt smartly and they feed good enough.


Aaaahhh.... I see. That makes sense to me. I have a friend who reloads during the winter up here, and I think I will try and find a set of reloading dies, then talk him into loading some proper length ammo for me. I thank you for your information Hammergun.
Just on a side note; Do you happen to know if Prvi Partisan brass make for good reloads?
 

Hammergun

AH senior member
Joined
Jan 23, 2015
Messages
63
Reaction score
83
I've been saving all my brass but haven't reloaded yet. Everything I've read says that the Privi brass is good stuff.
 

Brian B

AH member
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
19
Reaction score
19
Media
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
You have an exquisite model 1903 Mannlicher Shoenauer. The 6.5x54MS is a superb round for deer (or anything else of similar size.) The 160gr class bullets have BC off the scale and will punch holes through almost anything. Germans and Austrians use the caliber on red stag and boar as well as roe deer. Solids from this little rifle (along with 7x57 and .303) were used by "Karamojo" Bell to brain and amazing number of elephant.

Essentially, all mounts are post factory. You could have ordered it with telescopic sight installed, but even then, the work would have been outsourced. Most installed in Europe are claws of one type or another. Yours is a different variation (levers and studs rather than claws) but also most likely European. Though I have never seen that particular style before. Redfield also made a version of their mount that used a variation of their rings and bases once the receiver was drilled and tapped. The front was drilled normally - the rear attached back left. They can occasionally be found on ebay and similar sites.

The scope is almost certainly from between the wars and may or may not still be usable. A gifted gunmaker like JJ Perodeaux http://jjperodeau.com/ in this country could make new rings to fit those bases allowing the use of quality modern optics. Perhaps there is a similar savant in Canada? He did that for my little carbine shown below with the original period scope and soldered rings.


In any case, congrats on discovering a truly wonderful thing.

I have a model 1905 MS 9 by 56. It has a split bridge requiring special mounts. New England Custom Gun outfitted mine with the mounts (made in Germany). They are quick detach such that the open sights can still be used.
 

HWL

AH elite
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,065
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Germany
Media
193
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
I have a model 1905 MS 9 by 56. It has a split bridge requiring special mounts. New England Custom Gun outfitted mine with the mounts (made in Germany). They are quick detach such that the open sights can still be used.

How is your ammunition supply?

Pictures please,...this is a porn site!!! ;)

HWL
 

HWL

AH elite
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,065
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Germany
Media
193
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
....and I think I will try and find a set of reloading dies....

Once, Lee made a Lee Loader in 6,5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

Inexpensive, and nontheless a great tool ...sometimes you cane find one on ebay...


HWL
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DmacD

AH veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
165
Reaction score
204
Location
Ontario, Canada
Media
35
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Canada, U.S.A., Namibia, England
Once, Lee made a Lee Loader in 6,5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

Inexpensive, and nontheless a great tool ...sometimes you cane find one on ebay...


HWL
Thank you, I will take a look around the web and see what comes up.
 

Brian Rothhammer

AH enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
251
Reaction score
228
Media
36
Congratulations Mr. Macdonald!

As others have stated, what you have had the fortune to purchase is a Mannlicher Schönauer M1903 (6.5X54) Stutzen (full stocked carbine) that was proofed at Vienna in 1922. The 'prewar' MS is considered by many to be among the finest sporting arms ever built, and with a legendary smooth action that has no equal. It looks to be almost entirely original (the tang safety is not), and they are quite valuable as well as very highly regarded 'classics'. As overused as that word is, the MS is worthy of it. Think Duesenberg (your MS) compared to V16 Cadillac (Oberndorf Mauser).
Also correct is the information regarding the 'Vienna Snapper' scope mount (rather typical on these). The Kahles scope is appropriate to the firearm. I wouldn't replace it unless you have an alternate scope mounted to new rings and claws (a rather expensive endeavor, but parts are available from New England Gun) while keeping the Kahles intact and original.

The +.05 / -.05 are factory marks to indicate proper fit of barrel to receiver. "Osterr. Waffenfabr. Ges. Steyr" is the name of the firm (Steyr) that manufactured the MS, which falls in line with the 1922 proof date as the name was changed in 1926 to Steyr Werke AG.

The 'tang safety' is not original to the firearm and must have been (expertly, it seems) added post - manufacture. I don't know why, unless the wing safety interferes with the scope. There is a trap door on the steel buttplate. Inside will be three holes, one for a four piece cleaning rod (if you're lucky, it's in there), two for 'oh sh#t' rounds.

Your rear trigger is a 'set' trigger, the front a 'hair' trigger, and the screw between adjusts the let off. Muzzloading sites will provide you with further information about double set triggers. If you don't like them, a Mannlicher Schönauer single trigger is a direct interchange - they 'swap out' - and can be found as parts since the more common military issued 'Greek Mannlicher' used them.

Your feeding problems are due to the fact that the Schoenauer rotary magazine, though literally the smoothest fuctioning ever devised, is very particular as to what it is fed. Acquire ammunition that is made to the exact physical profile of the original (DWM 477) issue for effortless feeding. Loading your own will assure the best function and performance.

The best online resource for information regarding Mannlicher Schönauer rifles and carbines is the forum section of NitroExpress.com, where I and many others have posted such.
 

Brian Rothhammer

AH enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
251
Reaction score
228
Media
36
I'll try posting photos again (I'm a 'newbie' here).

Here are pages 50, 51, 52 of the 1939 Stoeger Catalog. Stoeger claimed to be the 'sole importer of Mannlicher Schoenauer Rifles and Carbines' to the U.S.:





 
Last edited by a moderator:

HWL

AH elite
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
1,065
Reaction score
1,735
Location
Germany
Media
193
Hunted
RSA, Namibia, Germany, Austria, Norway
Congratulations Mr. Macdonald!

The 'tang safety' is not original to the firearm and must have been (expertly, it seems) added post - manufacture. I don't know why, unless the wing safety interferes with the scope. There is a trap door on the steel buttplate. Inside will be three holes, one for a four piece cleaning rod (if you're lucky, it's in there), two for 'oh sh#t' rounds.

The interference with the scope is one reason

Another one is often overlooked.

With this kind of additional "tang safety", you can unload a loaded gun while in safe condition.

This feature first appeard with the Mauser three position flag safety, Mannlicher was not allowed to copy.

The safety of the original Mannlicher-Schoenauer had two positions only.



HWL
 

Brian Rothhammer

AH enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
251
Reaction score
228
Media
36
I think the 1325.22 under the barrel mean produced in 1922, the push-knob to remove the bolt mean pre-1924, after that they canged it to a lever aka M98.

The 6,5x54 with the original 160 grainer is famous for good penetration..



You are correct regarding the proof house number and year.

The sectional density of the 6.5X54 was, indeed, something. Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell used them (with precise shot placement) on elephant with success.




The bolt release shape was changed with the introduction of the (post ww2 production) 1950 model. Pre ww2 manufactured MS have the 'early type' release.


Early release

1950 MS release
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Forum statistics

Threads
35,570
Messages
663,737
Members
60,227
Latest member
Kelsey65I
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris wrote on jfowler812's profile.
hi Mr fowler

im happy to do these deals for 2021

i will knock off 10% off each deal if you take 2 so $18000 per package

look forward to your response

regards
Mule deer and Colorado elk seasons almost done! Hunters driving farm roads, looking for racks, their PH driving them along, I ask that you not pull into my drive. The buck behind me, on the boundary line of the GMU somehow knows. The hunter laughs, I would invite you in to see my Searcy rifles but social distancing prevails, darkness arrives and the buck slides away into secret tree grove...
Boyd Brooks wrote on Skinnersblade's profile.
Ellwood Epps has 1 box of 25-20 in stock. Look them up on the web. They are located in Orilla Ontario.
Lkhntr wrote on Warpig602's profile.
On the vx6 2-12 what does the zl2 stand for?

Thanks, Oliver
bowjijohn wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
Many thanks for re formatting my article for the forum

I served my time in both the bush and during the bush war

I hope it did it justice

Education is where it is at - without it the wild places are history

You - sir - are well placed to make a difference

J
 
Top