The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

Doug Hamilton · Sunday at 7:07 PM

SStomcat said:
Say you don’t get the brain shot, which is certainly possible when things go wrong. In that situation, no shot from any caliber is going to prove fatal if it isn’t placed properly.

But... a marginal shot with a .22lr may not neutralize the threat where a hit in the same spot with a .45 acp or 9 mm will put the perp on the ground. That is, in fact, the point being made in this conversation. A shoulder shot on a cape buffalo or elephant that hits near the perfect spot but not destroy the desired "kill switch" may have a better result with a .458 than a 9.3. Of course, a perfectly placed bullet from either of those rifles (or a .30-06 for that matter) will result in a dead animal, but wild animals, or even my Labrador, rarely stand perfectly still for any length of time. We all.like to believe that we will never flub a shot but it happens to nearly every hunter at some time. Remember, shot placement is always the most important thing, but it's not the only thing.

Tdsmith517 · Sunday at 7:10 PM

Red Leg said:
I acknowledged they are different. But, adrenaline disappears with a properly placed bullet. I keep hearing of these buffalo "shot through the heart" that then get up and charge. Or the bull that was "double lunged" or "shot through the chest" that goes for a mile to set up a carefully planned ambush. I have yet to meet that animal. The problem animal is almost always a misplaced first shot which may have had absolutely nothing to do with the man with the rifle - that intervening twig scenario. But as much as we hate to admit it, it is usually our mistake and chambering would have made no difference.

For the sake of conversation and clarification, when you say shot through the heart or double lunged and ran off are you talking about an animal that was shot unaware? Because to me it is a very different scenario when a buffalo is drilled through the heart and lungs with a .375H&H when it is unaware that it is being pursued vs being shot in the heart and lungs while it is coming in hit after being shot through the stomach and bumped around for a while before it decides that it is going to stand its ground and wait for whatever is after it? One has been wounded, pushed, and has reached the fight portion of fight or flight is going to have enough adrenaline to sustain a lethal heart/lung shot and carry on for at least awhile longer, causing injury and or death in extreme situations. One shot lethally on the first shot is going to run off/ walk off and get all woozy as it rapidly bleeds to death.

woodsrunner · Sunday at 7:14 PM

Have you seen this spring's Dangerous Game Edition of Sports Afield? John Barsness penned a column on page 16 on precisely this topic, "Use Just Enough Gun." I don't have an opinion myself backed by enough experience to matter here, but i am out daily in grizzly habitat (with a density of the brutes that often astounds me) and back myself with a .375 H&H, cup nose 300 grain solids loaded. I have no idea if this is "just enough gun" or too much, but i shoot comfortably with it and i do know i don't feel adequate carrying a .30-06 around here. (I am under the impression that the .375 is to North America what the .416 Rigby is to Africa.) I have in my copious reading come across folks who do have plenty of experience, in Africa, saying the .375 H&H is not a stopping calibre, on that continent. Then i read another piece where it took several guys 8 rounds or some such thing from .458 Lotts to bring down a charging buff. Or watch a video where someone puts several rounds into a charging buff from a .416 Rigby - the last one point-blank - and has to do a matador dive as it just keeps going. The tempting takeaway here being that neither are these calibres "stopping rounds" and here's the 'proof'. That a stopping-calibre is so only on a case-by-case basis if the animal was stopped. I wonder if with modern powders and bullets some of the ideas on the subject need revision, though.

SStomcat · Sunday at 7:17 PM

Doug Hamilton said:
But... a marginal shot with a .22lr may not neutralize the threat where a hit in the same spot with a .45 acp or 9 mm will put the perp on the ground. That is, in fact, the point being made in this conversation. A shoulder shot on a cape buffalo or elephant that hits near the perfect spot but not destroy the desired "kill switch" may have a better result with a .458 than a 9.3. Of course, a perfectly placed bullet from either of those rifles (or a .30-06 for that matter) will result in a dead animal, but wild animals, or even my Labrador, rarely stand perfectly still for any length of time. We all.like to believe that we will never flub a shot but it happens to nearly every hunter at some time. Remember, shot placement is always the most important thing, but it's not the only thing.

We’re discussing DG here, correct, and big bores starting at a minimum of .375 H&H. So, who in their right mind is going to turn up for a DG hunt with a .22 LR?

That would be less “dangerous game hunting” and more “bringing a butter knife to a sword fight.”

DLSJR · Sunday at 7:22 PM

Now that I kinda dropped a bomb into the discussion, indulge me while I offer some thoughts that are no more valid than anyone else’s.

First, there is a huge difference in what constitutes an ideal Dangerous Game rifle for a client vs. for a PH. When I’ve hunted dangerous game, the rifles carried by my PH’s have included 460 Weatherby, 458 Winchester, 470 NE, 450 Ackley and 450 Vincent Short. All good choices for stopping cartridges but more importantly, carried by PH’s whom I’ve never had the slightest concern about them performing under pressure should the need arise. And that makes my choice of cartridge less important.

When it was time to buy my son a rifle to hunt buffalo with I got him a 375 H&H, which I regard as an ideal cartridge choice for most client hunters. Not PH’s but rather client hunters. My son wanted a true big bore in 458 Lott so I told him he could buy whatever he wanted, but if I was paying for his rifle he was getting a 375 H&H. It’s a damn good and extremely versatile cartridge. And my son loves his 375, which matters a lot since confidence is very important. That said, I believe there’s a very noticeable difference in the effect a 416 has on buffalo compared to a 375. And further still in the 458’s to 500’s compared to 416.

For me, the ‘sweet spot’ is a 416. A 400 grain .416 bullet at 2,400 is very effective on buffalo and pretty much anything else too. For me, it’s easy to shoot at 2,400 but I don’t care for the recoil at 2,500. I’ve never felt undergunned when carrying my 416 Hoffman, especially with the PH’s with whom I choose to hunt.

When I take 2 rifles, it’s generally my 338 & 416; which I think is an ideal 2-gun battery. But when I take 1 rifle, it’s normally just my 375.

R eight · Sunday at 7:31 PM

I’d happily hunt anything with a 375 H&H or a 9.3x62 with suitable bullets….. but, I’d be ultra careful to only take shots when the opportunity for perfect shot placement presented.

However, now that I’ve recently had the opportunity to get up close and personal with elephant…. I’m firmly in the camp of shoot the biggest rifle that you can shoot well. If that’s a 9.3 then fine…..if that’s a 500 Jeffery then even better.

But, I’d still be careful to only take my FIRST shot when the opportunity for perfect shot placement presented.

Tanks · Sunday at 7:35 PM

DLSJR said:
When I take 2 rifles, it’s generally my 338 & 416; which I think is an ideal 2-gun battery. But when I take 1 rifle, it’s normally just my 375.

Last several hunts I took .500 NE and .300 RUM. The plains game I took a few weeks ago were over 200 yards and .300 RUM worked perfectly. Ditto for the .500 NE and a couple of buffalo.

One Day... · Sunday at 7:35 PM

All a question of increasing the odds...

No shoulder-fired weapon will "stop" a Buff or an Ele, the necessary kinetics would require a field gun.

From there, is is not a question of certainties, it is a question of increasing probabilities.

"Anchoring" or "stopping", a DG, whatever word or other best applies, requires either a direct hit to the central nervous system, or braking enough structural components so that the machine cannot move anymore.

Yep, the brain shot is king, but breaking neck, hip, spine, shoulder, etc. also often works, as well as the good old Taylor knockout to the head. Heck, this is how tailless elephant walk the bush :E Rofl:

The bigger the hammer, as long as you can wield it, the better the odds of breaking larger numbers of bigger bones hiding behind larger chunks of meat (depending on shot angle), and certainly the bigger the odds of a fight-ending KO.

That's all, no ballistic miracles involved, certainly no certainty (pun fully intended), just increasing (slightly) the odds

Betterinthebush · Sunday at 7:41 PM

Is it the OP’s position that everything >.375 is a “cannon”?

One Day... · Sunday at 7:47 PM

Red Leg said:
I acknowledged they are different. But, adrenaline disappears with a properly placed bullet. I keep hearing of these buffalo "shot through the heart" that then get up and charge. Or the bull that was "double lunged" or "shot through the chest" that goes for a mile to set up a carefully planned ambush. I have yet to meet that animal. The problem animal is almost always a misplaced first shot which may have had absolutely nothing to do with the man with the rifle - that intervening twig scenario. But as much as we hate to admit it, it is usually our mistake and chambering would have made no difference.

I think that the argument here is not whether the caliber would have made a difference on the first botched shot -- I agree with you that it would not have, and I agree that it is usually the shooter's mistake -- but whether it can make a difference on the potential subsequent stopping shots.

And whether the Buff was heart-shot or gut-shot by the first round, if it comes it better be stopped.

I personally love the "cigarette rule", wait 15 minutes, the time it takes to smoke a cigarette, to give it time to stiffen and hopefully die. It tends to sort out the gut-shot Buff from the heart-shot Buff

DLSJR · Sunday at 7:48 PM

Red Leg said:
I acknowledged they are different. But, adrenaline disappears with a properly placed bullet. I keep hearing of these buffalo "shot through the heart" that then get up and charge. Or the bull that was "double lunged" or "shot through the chest" that goes for a mile to set up a carefully planned ambush. I have yet to meet that animal. The problem animal is almost always a misplaced first shot which may have had absolutely nothing to do with the man with the rifle - that intervening twig scenario. But as much as we hate to admit it, it is usually our mistake and chambering would have made no difference.

I think scenario has a lot to do with how a buffalo reacts to taking a shot. In the case of the one I shot recently, he was alone, totally relaxed and unaware of us until my bullet struck him. He appeared hurt way worse than I expected, in obvious distress immediately and not using his right front leg much at all. And that was from a relatively small, 225 grain solid. From first to third shots he went about 30 yards and was dead in about 15-30 seconds.

Contrast that with a buffalo my son shot a few years ago with 300 grain TSX’s in his 375. There were three bulls and they were aware of him and his PH when my son shot. His first shot was broadside at about 70 yards or so. Double lungs with an exit. The bull turned toward him and he sent another TSX lengthwise through a lung. The buffalo fell over and started death bellowing. The other buffalo didn’t leave so I ran up and shot one of them with my 416. I quickly fired 4 shots into my buffalo, dropping him about 20 yards from first shot to dead. (Yes, I keep shooting until I run out of bullets or buffalo to shoot. Bullets are cheap, shooting is fun and you can never kill a Buffalo ‘too dead’). Anyway, my sons buffalo that was laying nearby and dying when I started shooting decided he didn’t want to die there afterall and he got up and disappeared while I was shooting my Buffalo. Death bellows, huge pool of lung blood on the ground and buffalo was gone. We tracked that buffalo two full kilometers by Gaia GPS measurement before my son shot him again and convinced him he was dead.

Would a bigger gun than 375 have kept him down? Who knows? But I came away convinced that the alertness or lack thereof at the shot does impact how easily a buffalo dies. And I damn sure would not want to follow a wounded buffalo without someone having a rifle that doesn’t start with at least a 4.

Tdsmith517 · Sunday at 8:03 PM

The will to live is a powerful thing, especially in a number of African animals.

K-man · Sunday at 8:21 PM

Surprised no one has mentioned the "frozen herring" yet...lol

Doug Hamilton · Sunday at 8:59 PM

SStomcat said:
We’re discussing DG here, correct, and big bores starting at a minimum of .375 H&H. So, who in their right mind is going to turn up for a DG hunt with a .22 LR?

That would be less “dangerous game hunting” and more “bringing a butter knife to a sword fight.”

Yeah, I really hate it when I bring my butter knife to the sword fight and the other guy brings his saber. Maybe that's why they call.me lefty now.

Just joking.

farmer_john · Sunday at 9:49 PM

SStomcat said:
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not planning to have a fist fight here I tend to sometimes think and act differently to conventional wisdons - Carry enough gun, Bigger is always better ...

The Canon Myth: Precision over power.
Let’s talk about the biggest flaw in dangerous game hunting: the "bigger is always better" mentality. We’ve all seen it a hunter turns up with a massive, shoulder-bruising canon 577, 600, Overkill ..only to develop a terminal case of the flinch and unable to place a shot accurately and recycle.

A perfect shot from a .375 H&H or 9.3×62mm beats a flinched, gut-shot from a .460 Weatherby
It’s not about the biggest stick, I know Teddy said that, it's about carrying the right caliber and bullet for the specific game. There is no universal "unicorn" load. If you skip the elephant cannons, you can absolutely hunt safely with smaller calibers, provided you adapt your strategy.

The great Karamajo Bell.
Iconic hunter W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell harvested hundreds of elephants with a tiny 7×57mm Mauser (.275 Rigby). He succeeded because he used heavy, non-deforming military solids that drove deep and straight, relying on anatomy over raw horsepower.
Translating that to a modern .375 platform means matching rifle to the animal -

- Do not use a 300-grain expanding TSX on an elephant. It acts like a parachute and halts penetration prematurely.
- Scale down the caliber, but keep the bullet structure rigid. Pushing a 300-grain Barnes Banded Solid .375 easily achieves the straight-line penetration needed to reach an elephant's brain.

The Trade-Off: Margin for Error
Let’s bust the myth: no bullet instantly drops an elephant with a body shot. However, going with a lighter, shootable setup changes your safety net.
When a charge happens, a 500-grain solid from a .416 or .458 delivers a massive shockwave. It has a much higher chance of breaking heavy shoulder bones or knocking the animal off balance to buy you time. Opting for a lighter setup means your margin for error shrinks. You must be more disciplined, wait for the perfect angle, and rely entirely on surgical precision rather than brute force

What say you, gentlemen?
Are you trading the heavy "safety net" of a punishing .458 for the laser-like placement of a manageable .375?

Let’s hear your thoughts below!Be gentle. My shoulder isn't the only thing that's sensitive.

Whats important is where the hole goes not the size of it. This is basically a 9mm vs 45 debate..

That said. You are correct back in the day some people did use smaller calibers to hunt elephant. They also were not paying 25k+ per and a wound and it runs off to die later still the same price. How many eleohants did he badly wound before he got his shots down oat? Im sure there alot of animals back then that died later due to wounds and infections. While im fully confident in doing the same thing with my 06. I dont think as policy/ general practice for hunting we could call it ethical.
The general consensus here is for hippo and elephants .4 is min size and thats what i went with. And will take with me.
But 600+ is just as impractical in my book as a 7mm esp at 60+ a bullet and the punishing recoil very very few will be practicing enough to be good with it.

Tanks · Monday at 5:07 PM

SStomcat said:
We’re discussing DG here, correct, and big bores starting at a minimum of .375 H&H.

.375 is not a big bore caliber by any stretch of imagination. Big bores start at .450+. It is just the minimum caliber for thick skinned DG by some of the African countries. It is like a participation award in kliddie soccer match, gets credit for showing up.

Personally, I would never go for any criteria that is considered a "minimum".

Mark458 · Monday at 5:14 PM

Tanks said:
.375 is not a big bore caliber by any stretch of imagination. Big bores start at .450+. It is just the minimum caliber for thick skinned DG by some of the African countries. It is like a participation award in kliddie soccer match, gets credit for showing up.

Personally, I would never go for any criteria that is considered a "minimum".

Shots fired, and from a "Big Bore" no less. Grab your popcorn and get ready for the show. This should be good.

SStomcat · Monday at 5:24 PM

Tanks said:
.375 is not a big bore caliber by any stretch of imagination. Big bores start at .450+. It is just the minimum caliber for thick skinned DG by some of the African countries. It is like a participation award in kliddie soccer match, gets credit for showing up.

Personally, I would never go for any criteria that is considered a "minimum".

Whether .375 is technically a “big bore” or simply the minimum legal caliber for certain thick-skinned game doesn't really change the fact that it has been successfully used on DG for a long time.
And as for the participation trophy analogy… I'll concede that .375 has been showing up to the DG game for well over a century and nobody has told it not to play.

Tdsmith517 · Monday at 6:18 PM

SStomcat said:
Whether .375 is technically a “big bore” or simply the minimum legal caliber for certain thick-skinned game doesn't really change the fact that it has been successfully used on DG for a long time.
And as for the participation trophy analogy… I'll concede that .375 has been showing up to the DG game for well over a century and nobody has told it not to play.

I always thought of the .375H&H as a medium bore rifle. Along with the .350 Rigby, .404 Jeff, .416 Rigby, .425 Westly Richards. They were all designed and chambered in turn of the century Magazine Rifles to fill a similar role. The big doubles were still supposed main Dangerous Game rifles. At least until the advent of the.458 Winchester in the Safari revival era after the closure of Kynoch.

BTP-KennethWRoyce · Monday at 6:41 PM

Mark458 said:
I'm definitely in the larger caliber camp, but I practice a lot and I've never been bothered to much by recoil. I no longer own any 375's. All my DG hunting is done with a caliber that starts with at least a 4.

Wield the most powerful round you can comfortably control.
(Why wouldn't you?)

I've concluded that .40S&W on Bad Buys and .416 on buffalo are logical minimums, IF you can control them. (Bigger is not better if you cannot shoot them well.)

However, if it's 9x19 and .375 respectively for you, OK, but understand their marginality and be prepared for follow up shots.

The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

Doug Hamilton

Tdsmith517

woodsrunner

SStomcat

DLSJR

R eight

Tanks

One Day...

Betterinthebush

One Day...

DLSJR

Tdsmith517

K-man

Doug Hamilton

farmer_john

The Canon Myth: Precision over power.

The great Karamajo Bell.

The Trade-Off: Margin for Error

Tanks

Mark458

SStomcat

Tdsmith517

BTP-KennethWRoyce

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The Cannon Myth: Why I'd Rather Hit Than Bruise

The Canon Myth: Precision over power.​

The great Karamajo Bell.​

The Trade-Off: Margin for Error​

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Share this page

The Canon Myth: Precision over power.

The great Karamajo Bell.

The Trade-Off: Margin for Error