The Clash of the Titans: Heym Martini Express VS Rigby Big Game

Heym Martini Express or Rigby Big Game in your choice of DG cartridge

  • Heym Martini Express

    Votes: 52 59.1%

  • Rigby Big Game

    Votes: 36 40.9%
  • Total voters
    88
BJH65 said:
It is starting to get hard to keep track with Mauser’s 98 Das Original and Rigby’s P.H. model, both having a lower quality of wood and satin bluing instead of the polished blue but essentially the same rifle.

Here’s some links to pricing on the Mauser 98 Das Original, Rigby P.H. and Rigby Big Game. I cannot locate a current Heym Martini Express for sale? One would have to order from the factory. The last one I saw, A Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby with grade 7-8 wood, new condition sold online about a month ago for $15,800. I have the identical rifle.

Therein lies the advantage with Rigby and Mauser over the Heym, if you want one right now you can go out and buy one and be home in time for corn flakes!


Click to expand...
True - I did have to order My Heym Martini Express in 404 Jeff.. but I ordered it last month and will have it by March.
 
318AE said:
Sigh. Yes. I know you represent a sponsor and but are not a sponsor yourself.

What I did not know when I read your OP was that you had already made your decision. You bought a Heym. I sincerely hope you are happy with it for years to come.

I would have be so nice to simply get a range report of your first 60 rounds through your Heym.

I think AH is argumentative enough without “Clash of the xyz” and “x vs y” posts. Frankly, your OP contained quite a bit on AI slop. That is my contribution. I don’t have 25 years experience in law enforcement (presumably with deescalation training), I have 30 years in technology product development, including the companies developing this stuff AI stuff (maybe read that again slowly). There is a regrettable do-loop at the moment. AI actually sources from AH, and so many other places, so the errors here are reinforced.

So, do you want somebody that has a favorite RSA outfitter to post a side by side comparison with DK safaris, based on their first hand experience with another outfitter and what AI says about DK? That’s really my point, and it will become more relevant as AI grows.
Click to expand...
There has been some great discussion on this post, which I actually appreciate. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge, so I suppose one more post from me can be excused...

However, I’m still not quite sure what your issue is here.
Are you suggesting that using AI is somehow unethical because it draws on information from African hunting, along with many other data points? Or are you saying that comparing two different rifle brands is somehow inappropriate?

I disagree with comparing rifle brands to comparing two safari outfitters owned by individuals. The latter can become very personal, whereas comparing rifles their design, quality, features, and performance is simply a product comparison.By that logic, would comparing a Mercedes-AMG with a BMW M, or a Ferrari with a Lamborghini, be considered outlandish on an automotive forum?

BTW, I’ve worked in IT for 35 years, so I have a fairly good understanding of how AI works, as well as product development and comparative analysis etc. So, either contribute something constructive to the discussion or simply move on.
 
For anyone actually seriously considering buying one of the two rifles, Safari Outdoor in Johannesburg has both available on premise, so you can handle both in person before buying, and perform a side by side comparison to your heart’s content.

I thought both were far too beautiful to take into the thorns, but that’s an entirely different discussion.
 
318AE said:
Sigh. Yes. I know you represent a sponsor and but are not a sponsor yourself.

What I did not know when I read your OP was that you had already made your decision. You bought a Heym. I sincerely hope you are happy with it for years to come.

I would have be so nice to simply get a range report of your first 60 rounds through your Heym.

I think AH is argumentative enough without “Clash of the xyz” and “x vs y” posts. Frankly, your OP contained quite a bit on AI slop. That is my contribution. I don’t have 25 years experience in law enforcement (presumably with deescalation training), I have 30 years in technology product development, including the companies developing this stuff AI stuff (maybe read that again slowly). There is a regrettable do-loop at the moment. AI actually sources from AH, and so many other places, so the errors here are reinforced.

So, do you want somebody that has a favorite RSA outfitter to post a side by side comparison with DK safaris, based on their first hand experience with another outfitter and what AI says about DK? That’s really my point, and it will become more relevant as AI grows.
Click to expand...
You seem to have excellent knowledge regarding all things Rigby. I think we are all better served when information is shared without friction, neither of us need be adversarial, it serves no purpose.

I freely admit to responding defensively, I am human after all but my preference is to always have a cordial dialogue. My deescalation training doesn’t extend to written communication. :)

Could I have done a better job presenting this comparison? Well yes but I do believe it’s beneficial and interesting, especially the poll. I enjoy reading the varied responses from different AH members, many who have worthwhile knowledge to share.

As for AI, which is fairly new to me, at 61 I spent half my life existing before smart phones and even before home computers were common, so I did disclose I used it to assist me. Primarily to make it catchy and a bit dramatic.

A bit of fun. It’s just a tool and like any tool it should be double checked and I freely admit the mistake about the Rigby double square bridge mounting system.

As far as Rigby, I do not feel they were disparaged in this comparison and I have aways desired one and still may acquire one someday. I think very highly of Rigby.

I did previously post about my acquisition and setting up my Heym Martini Express.

Thank you, the Heym is perhaps the finest rifle I possess and I look forward to taking it to Umbabat, Greater Kruger in two months. The quarry will be buffalo and hyena. I feel the 416 Rigby is excellent for a one gun safari.

Thanks for your commentary.
 
Last edited:
SStomcat said:
There has been some great discussion on this post, which I actually appreciate. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge, so I suppose one more post from me can be excused...

However, I’m still not quite sure what your issue is here.
Are you suggesting that using AI is somehow unethical because it draws on information from African hunting, along with many other data points? Or are you saying that comparing two different rifle brands is somehow inappropriate?

I disagree with comparing rifle brands to comparing two safari outfitters owned by individuals. The latter can become very personal, whereas comparing rifles their design, quality, features, and performance is simply a product comparison.By that logic, would comparing a Mercedes-AMG with a BMW M, or a Ferrari with a Lamborghini, be considered outlandish on an automotive forum?

BTW, I’ve worked in IT for 35 years, so I have a fairly good understanding of how AI works, as well as product development and comparative analysis etc. So, either contribute something constructive to the discussion or simply move on.
Click to expand...
I think hes saying AI is only going to spit out info as good as its inputs and currently its data points runs the spread from good to outright incorrect
This making the whole OP an Ai generated post/argument is lazy and sloppy.

As to comparing to brands of any products is always good and id love to see 2 comparable models of rigby big game and heym
On metrics of what features do you get for x dollars
How do those features perform under xys conditions. And not an ai generated report.
 
migrabill said:
True - I did have to order My Heym Martini Express in 404 Jeff.. but I ordered it last month and will have it by March.
Click to expand...
That’s relatively quick! I’m sure you cant wait!
 
farmer_john said:
I think hes saying AI is only going to spit out info as good as its inputs and currently its data points runs the spread from good to outright incorrect
This making the whole OP an Ai generated post/argument is lazy and sloppy.

As to comparing to brands of any products is always good and id love to see 2 comparable models of rigby big game and heym
On metrics of what features do you get for x dollars
How do those features perform under xys conditions. And not an ai generated report.
Click to expand...
What was incorrect about the report? If you’re going to parrot this please provide what was specifically wrong? I acknowledged and corrected the part about the machined double square bridge mounting system of the Rigby Big Game which was conflated with the Highlander mounting system. AI is just a tool, nothing more which can assist in gathering information, assist in the presentation and grammar.
 
BJH65 said:
What was incorrect about the report? If you’re going to parrot this please provide what was specifically wrong? I acknowledged and corrected the part about the machined double square bridge mounting system of the Rigby Big Game which was conflated with the Highlander mounting system. AI is just a tool, nothing more which can assist in gathering information, assist in the presentation and grammar.
Click to expand...
Dont take a generalized coment and make it something personal. Its not. Its a summary of the points he was making in general. And in general the use of AI is not benefiting society but rotting it. Kids these days can barely even read/comprehend what they are reading and ai makes it worse.
 
To all,

I think this is a good discussion thread. Which is better and/or which do you like better, Ford or Chevy? If you aren’t into cars or pickup trucks, who cares? But some do. Same for very fine production rifles in the $15,000 to $25,000 price range. If you are a potential buyer of a rifle like these this year or in future years, it is a good thread. If not, move on and read threads you are interested in. Or put the OP on Ignore if you repeated don’t like his posts.

Also, if you think there should be a thread about the best magazine rifle in the $XXXXX price range, or the value of a $20,000 rifle compared to a $2,000 rifle, then start a thread.

As for including information from AI, it’s coming to most all of us. I was a hold out but recently discovered that AI can reduce the time for obtaining facts and/or opinions by 10-fold. As always, I look for three separate Internet sources for 95% confidence in the information. Once AI presents information, I can then separately research the individual points. I posted AI with a source citation in the politics forum this week. I think it’s better than using multiple Google searches or an AI search or two and rewriting it as one’s own work.

Finally, as an instructor or teacher, one encounters “snipers” from time to time. It’s so easy to be a critic. It’s a little harder to develop discussion topics that many enjoy.

I wish everyone safe shooting and good hunting!
 
BJH65 said:
You seem to have excellent knowledge regarding all things Rigby. I think we are all better served when information is shared without friction, neither of us need be adversarial, it serves no purpose.

I freely admit to responding defensively, I am human after all but my preference is to always have a cordial dialogue. My deescalation training doesn’t extend to written communication. :)

Could I have done a better job presenting this comparison? Well yes but I do believe it’s beneficial and interesting, especially the poll. I enjoy reading the varied responses from different AH members, many who have worthwhile knowledge to share.

As for AI, which is fairly new to me, at 61 I spent half my life existing before smart phones and even before home computers were common, so I did disclose I used it to assist me. Primarily to make it catchy and a bit dramatic.

A bit of fun. It’s just a tool and like any tool it should be double checked and I freely admit the mistake about the Rigby double square bridge mounting system.

As far as Rigby, I do not feel they were disparaged in this comparison and I have aways desired one and still may acquire one someday. I think very highly of Rigby.

I did previously post about my acquisition and setting up my Heym Martini Express.

Thank you, the Heym is perhaps the finest rifle I possess and I look forward to taking it to Umbabat, Greater Kruger in two months. The quarry will be buffalo and hyena. I feel the 416 Rigby is excellent for a one gun safari.

Thanks for your commentary.
Click to expand...
I really appreciate this post on many levels, but especially the introspection. It's funny because I woke up this morning thinking I'd do a post asking guys to keep it civil out of respect for the forum.

Because one of the remarkable things about AH is the overall positiveity, especially when you consider it's populated mostly by serious Type A guys. Every time a new guy comes on 30 people respond welcoming him. Every time somebody posts a hunting report 30 more people respond positively. The phrase, "Respectfully," starts many a post where someone is going to disgree but wants to be sure it's a gentlemanly disagreement.

It's not to say we can't disagree. But I think back to the long and lively thread on here about hunting CBL. Lots of emotions there but (mostly) civil discussion.

On this thread we've inadevrtantly stumbled on one of the most fraught topics of our time. And it's not whether we should buy a Heym or a Rigby. It's the role of AI in all areas of life. This won't be the last time we wrestle with this.
 
BJH65 said:
It is starting to get hard to keep track with Mauser’s 98 Das Original and Rigby’s P.H. model, both having a lower quality of wood and satin bluing instead of the polished blue but essentially the same rifle.

Here’s some links to pricing on the Mauser 98 Das Original, Rigby P.H. and Rigby Big Game. I cannot locate a current Heym Martini Express for sale? One would have to order from the factory. The last one I saw, A Heym Martini Express 416 Rigby with grade 7-8 wood, new condition sold online about a month ago for $15,800. I have the identical rifle.

Therein lies the advantage with Rigby and Mauser over the Heym, if you want one right now you can go out and buy one and be home in time for corn flakes!


Click to expand...
Why is the last one like $8-10k more than others that are new? What am I missing?
 
Hornedfrogbbq said:
Why is the last one like $8-10k more than others that are new? What am I missing?
Click to expand...
The last, is a Rigby Big Game 416 Rigby Grade 5 wood, 24k. It has a polished plasma nitride finish and better wood than the lower cost Rigby P.H. and Mauser 98 Das Original that have a duller blue finish and lesser grade wood. It is the Rigby rifle that is being compared to the Heym Martini Express in my post.

I believe it’s priced appropriately. An excellent example of a Rigby Big Game rifle.
 
AI, for better or worse, is here to stay...
In the OP, this was said about the Rigby:
BJH65 said:
Classic British Ergonomics: The stock lines are slender, elegant, and traditional. The grip angle and slim forend are optimized for a secure, comfortable hold through long days on the tracks.
Click to expand...
Obviously, AI missed the comarison entirely...

As for the "classic" British styling, I'd say that generally, the Heym is more in tune with the majority of pre war British sporting bot guns.
Rigbys look like Rigbys. Pre war, they had a style of their own and it is rare to find an original Rigby with much adornment - very much a working gun style.
The Heym looks more like a Westley Richards imo, although WR did have any level of finish and adornment one could ask for, the Heym stylistically looks that way to me.

I get the nostalgia. Hell, I breathe nostalgia!
But keep in mind that there were only about 180 pre war 416 Rigbys made.
As we speak, there are nearly 20 Rigby made 416s for sale on GI, add in the 404s and 450s and it's well over 20.. That's a LOT of 416s out there and I'd guess that represents under 5% of the new era 416s made.
Could be way off on that but you get the picture.

It's good for all that Rigby brought back the magnums. Not long ago the only choices were Rugers, CZs or a full custom build on a GM or a rare Mauser clone which years ago put you back about $4K before a hand touched the project!
So, as overpriced as they are (again, imo), I have to hand it to Rigby and Marc Newton on tapping into the emotion (and wallets) of the mid-high end of the market. They are obviously succeeding!

All that said, I prefer the Heym.
 
Adam Stevens said:
If a 404 Im going with the Heym martini express

If a 416 I'd take the rigby in big game vintage
Click to expand...
Guess I'm the same. Got my Heym Martini express in 404 Jeff and My Rigby Highland Stalker in .275 Rigby.
 
Huvius said:
AI, for better or worse, is here to stay...
In the OP, this was said about the Rigby:

Obviously, AI missed the comarison entirely...

As for the "classic" British styling, I'd say that generally, the Heym is more in tune with the majority of pre war British sporting bot guns.
Rigbys look like Rigbys. Pre war, they had a style of their own and it is rare to find an original Rigby with much adornment - very much a working gun style.
The Heym looks more like a Westley Richards imo, although WR did have any level of finish and adornment one could ask for, the Heym stylistically looks that way to me.

I get the nostalgia. Hell, I breathe nostalgia!
But keep in mind that there were only about 180 pre war 416 Rigbys made.
As we speak, there are nearly 20 Rigby made 416s for sale on GI, add in the 404s and 450s and it's well over 20.. That's a LOT of 416s out there and I'd guess that represents under 5% of the new era 416s made.
Could be way off on that but you get the picture.

It's good for all that Rigby brought back the magnums. Not long ago the only choices were Rugers, CZs or a full custom build on a GM or a rare Mauser clone which years ago put you back about $4K before a hand touched the project!
So, as overpriced as they are (again, imo), I have to hand it to Rigby and Marc Newton on tapping into the emotion (and wallets) of the mid-high end of the market. They are obviously succeeding!

All that said, I prefer the Heym.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thoughts and corrections. Yes, I wouldn’t use the words “slender and slim” in the description of present day Rigby Big Game rifles. It would be great if they redesigned the stock to make it similar to the present day Heym Martini Express.

My observations are there are presently more lower cost (I guess that’s a relative term) Rigby P.H. rifles available for sale in the U.S. and the comparable Mauser 98 Das Original. A couple years back, when I was considering a Rigby Big Game, the lowest price was around 21-22K, no lower cost PHs available then.

The PH is not inexpensive but dropping from 24k for a Rigby Big Game to 16k for a Rigby P.H. makes it more reachable for some and the Mauser 98 Das Original at 13-14k even more so. If I were to purchase a Rigby, it would be their P.H. model in 458 Lott.

I’m happy to see the availability of Rigby’s here and I’m glad they appear to be thriving as a company. It’s notable that we see zero Heym Martini Express rifles for sale but clearly they have a different business model.
 
I guess in an attempt to help get this thread on track here is my opinion or more of an explanation of why I landed where I did.

I think the current big game PH that are on the market (cabelas) represent a value over Heym they are about a grand cheaper. base model for base model have pretty much exact same features. With one exception I think the plasma finish on the rigby is an actual technical advantage vs traditional bluing. It is more corrosion resistant and harder. Something that can matter in a rifle that is intend to actually use.

Once you get out of the base model the Heym starts to be cheaper as you add upgrades, vs the regular big game. You can get some color case hardening, gold lettering high polish blue ect for the same price as the normal big game which has upgraded wood and some fire blue pieces.

I think the Heym tops out around 40 maybe 50 if you totally decked it out with options. Where as the London best starts there. But the Heym will never be a London best. What that actually means hard to say.

So it really is a question of what you want. All these rifles are to a certain extent art and nostalgia.

Handling wise the Heym is more trim which I like in the 404 and below but if you are into the 416, 450 I actually think the size of classic rigby stock lines and action are an advantage.

Long story short that is why I did what I did ph model 450 and 404 Heym with some upgrades.

I will add I do appreciate what rigby is doing for conservation and hunting community as a whole.

Edit to add No AI used lol
 
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