Who else got busted by the "point creep" ?

I went into the Wyoming 2026 nonresident draw with 15 elk points in a unit that the last two years took 5 points to draw. I was unsuccessful. This year it took 17 points to draw a nonresident tag in that unit. That is a little more than creep. I'm borderline for Wyoming moose for next year.

I also have 26 resident moose points in Colorado and my odds of drawing are less than someone with 10 points. That is pure BS. I haven't looked this year but last year there were over 48,000 applicants for 500+/- moose tags. Ever since Colorado went with the cheap ($8.93 this year) application fee, everyone and their dog is applying for everything thus destroying their draw system. Does CPW care? Absolutely not. They are not bashful in stating that the income is more important than having an equitable draw system for their hunters.
 
Muskox said:
As a Wyoming native, who has been playing points programs for 30 years residents don't want or need a points program. Look at how F'd up Montana's is and they have twice your population.

I wish I lived in Wyoming again. I thought when I left at 18 to join the military I'd be home in 4 years. It's been 33 and counting. still no closer to returning home.
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You are correct, Muskox. We do not want a points system here in Wyoming for residents. That being said, as a resident it would be nice to be able to draw every few years at least.
 
I’m 9 yrs in on Wyo elk points. Burned my 8 antelope points last year. I’ll keep doing that and the random draw in NM for a few things, but that’s it for me going forward. I was also late to the game getting started with points unfortunately.
 
I probably have enough pp's to get drawn for pronghorn and deer again before I'm 70.
If I get lucky, I might have enough pp's to get drawn for elk one more time before I'm 80.
 
Uncompahgre said:
I went into the Wyoming 2026 nonresident draw with 15 elk points in a unit that the last two years took 5 points to draw. I was unsuccessful. This year it took 17 points to draw a nonresident tag in that unit. That is a little more than creep. I'm borderline for Wyoming moose for next year.

I also have 26 resident moose points in Colorado and my odds of drawing are less than someone with 10 points. That is pure BS. I haven't looked this year but last year there were over 48,000 applicants for 500+/- moose tags. Ever since Colorado went with the cheap ($8.93 this year) application fee, everyone and their dog is applying for everything thus destroying their draw system. Does CPW care? Absolutely not. They are not bashful in stating that the income is more important than having an equitable draw system for their hunters.
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Yeah, Colorado's draw used to be reasonably straight forward, but now they have the allocation for hard to draw units that really has skewed the process; setting aside tags for people with fairly minimal points for a true lottery draw. I got lucky, twice. Drew my sheep tag in 2012 with 16 points that took 18 years to build. Then drew my moose tag the following year with 13 points that took 15 years to get.
But having the most points has never been a guarantee to draw. I was several points below the top when I drew the sheep and moose. Don't know who figured out the convoluted math used, but it does give those with less than the max points a chance, my tags are proof of that. Buddy of mine has failed to draw elk in unit 201 for the last 28 years, but has had max points in the draw for the last 6-8 years (point creep definitely happening). My gripe for the last few years is residents now have to pay $50 for a point for sheep, moose and goat. By the time I draw my next cow moose tag, I'll have as much invested as the nonresident ticket; if I manage to draw again, took 8 years to get the last one.
 
TheGrayRider said:
View attachment 772956

I had a little luck in the Nevada 2026 lottery a few weeks ago in drawing this Nonresident antelope rifle tag with 13 points.

I will take it as nothing is getting easier or cheaper to draw in any state in the Western US.

Best of luck in the draws and happy hunting to all, TheGrayRider a/k/a Tom.
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Update:

IMG_5198.jpeg


Fun hunt and good weather here in Nevada. Rifle, public BLM land, guided, August 23, 2026. Taped at 76.25 inch. I am now in Nevada “pronghorn tag jail” for 3 years!

Quite a few antelope running around the last few days. Good luck and Happy hunting to all, TheGrayRider a/k/a Tom.
 
a friend who is a SD resident stopped trying to draw a Custer State Park elk tag after hitting 30 points and figured he would never get drawn, so he turned them in for a cow tag in an area he found out by a biologist that came into his camp and told him there were no elk in that zone and F&G should have never issued tags there, was a rip off.
 
Hyde Hunter said:
a friend who is a SD resident stopped trying to draw a Custer State Park elk tag after hitting 30 points and figured he would never get drawn, so he turned them in for a cow tag in an area he found out by a biologist that came into his camp and told him there were no elk in that zone and F&G should have never issued tags there, was a rip off.
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This isn’t the first or last time a state issues a tag in a unit with little to no population.

It’s done as a way to “control” or manage the population and area. The tag is essentially meant for the fringe one-off animal that might happen to wander outside the core management zone away from the direction they want the population to grow or expand. Other times they don’t want any population growth or expansion. It happens in a bunch of states, for a variety of species. I’ve seen it happen with sheep tags after a disease outbreak when game and fish wants to cull everything before a relocation project. Sometimes it’s done in areas heading towards metro areas or highways where they’ll issue 10x more tags than the population. This is why it’s important to look at data aside from the draw odds, and speak to biologists especially when you start getting up there in points.
 
Hyde Hunter said:
a friend who is a SD resident stopped trying to draw a Custer State Park elk tag after hitting 30 points and figured he would never get drawn, so he turned them in for a cow tag in an area he found out by a biologist that came into his camp and told him there were no elk in that zone and F&G should have never issued tags there, was a rip off.
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Mtn_Infantry said:
This isn’t the first or last time a state issues a tag in a unit with little to no population.

It’s done as a way to “control” or manage the population and area. The tag is essentially meant for the fringe one-off animal that might happen to wander outside the core management zone away from the direction they want the population to grow or expand. Other times they don’t want any population growth or expansion. It happens in a bunch of states, for a variety of species. I’ve seen it happen with sheep tags after a disease outbreak when game and fish wants to cull everything before a relocation project. Sometimes it’s done in areas heading towards metro areas or highways where they’ll issue 10x more tags than the population. This is why it’s important to look at data aside from the draw odds, and speak to biologists especially when you start getting up there in points.
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A better question is, why would your friend burn 30 points for a cow tag? Also, why would he burn 30 years of points to hunt a unit he hadn't done research on from just being told by one person there would be cows there?
 
analog_peninsula said:
This thread has done an excellent job of convincing me to avoid western hunting, and to spend my money in Eastern Europe and Africa.
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You wouldn’t be to far off the mark. Honestly if people really want to hunt a big elk, mule deer, or pronghorn just get a landowner tag or hunt with an outfitter with allotted tags. It’s going to be expensive but so is hunting overseas. If you just want to do it to say you have done it it’s not awful. If you want to chase them every year it’s more work with all the points in different states to stagger trips and hunting over the counter or left over tags to not burn points.
 
Tdsmith517 said:
You wouldn’t be to far off the mark. Honestly if people really want to hunt a big elk, mule deer, or pronghorn just get a landowner tag or hunt with an outfitter with allotted tags. It’s going to be expensive but so is hunting overseas. If you just want to do it to say you have done it it’s not awful. If you want to chase them every year it’s more work with all the points in different states to stagger trips and hunting over the counter or left over tags to not burn points.
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Agreed, the other take away should be start applying your kids and grandkids the first chance you get so they’re ahead of the curve points wise compared to the rest of their non resident peers. If I had kids the first things I’d do were start an IRA/College Fund Account, and pick a couple states to start building points in for them.

Those who started applying when the the points/draw system first started or younger in our hunting careers have seen and will continue to see some great North American hunting opportunities that can be accomplished for the cost of a license/tag, and fuel. If you care enough to learn the system, and truly understand it you’ll have plenty of opportunities. It’s no different than learning how to invest in real estate or the stock market, learning how to code or program, learning a trade. If it matters to you, you’ll figure it out. If you wait until you’re 45 or 55 when you get a whim or decide you’ve got the money and just want to jump in you’re gonna be SOL and should just buy a landowner voucher or an outfitted hunt with guaranteed outfitter allocated tags.
 
Things have changed. In 1985 I took a Friday off from work, drove all night to Douglas Wyoming. Got up Friday afternoon, met my 2 hunting buddies, went to the county office, paid the fee, got a tag. We drove out to a ranch Saturday north of Buffalo, knocked on the door. The land owner said there was a herd that hung around his stock tank and we could probably fill our tags there. I had to be back to work in Kansas Monday so I was going to take the first decent one I came across. This is a picture of a picture, the goat measured a little over 14 inches around the curve, the rifle is a Ruger #1v 25-06. The shot was just over 100 yards, still have the rifle, but not the hair.
Mike
CA8AB8B7-AFF4-4E30-AC85-6D7B61FE3339.jpeg
 
Sabre said:
A better question is, why would your friend burn 30 points for a cow tag? Also, why would he burn 30 years of points to hunt a unit he hadn't done research on from just being told by one person there would be cows there?
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he was just fed up with the whole system and gave up due to health
 
Hyde Hunter said:
he was just fed up with the whole system and gave up due to health
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Been a lot of people burning high numbers of points lately for this exact reason. The points game is a bit like survivor, need to out live and out last the competition. 30 years of points and I won’t even be 50 in several states. I’m sure there are several others that are in a better position.
 
It is 100% a Ponzi scheme.

I do Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, Oklahoma, and Texas for points. I also apply in New Mexico and Idaho.

Our system is very hard to figure out, it takes a ton of work. I am done telling people how it works or trying to help people draw. I have spent 15 years learning the systems. Anyone else can do the same thing.

My father burned 18 or 20 points and killed a cow moose about 10 years ago in Wyoming, his health was bad then, now it is terrible. He has killed 6 moose in his life, 2 in Wyoming and 4 in Alaska. Both Wyoming moose were cows. He's happy 86 year old, but he'd really like to be 26, so would we all.

There are some weird things, some species have no points in some states. These are in states that have points for everything. Not that helps you as the odds are terrible.
 
Mauser3000 said:
I put in for antelope this year in Wyoming and also didn’t draw. There’s always next year.
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I kindly disagree, there his no guarantee we will be alive next year, we need to hunt now, just my 2 cents worth
 
I don't. care what they say about declining hunter numbers, there's just to damm many people and to many hunters. Disagree? Nearly everywhere I hunt in the lower 48, I see hunters everywhere and if that's not enough, try to draw a tag, I know 2 guys that have 16 pp and still can't draw a deer tag here in WY. Residents too, I know guys that have applied 10 for more years and Can't draw a bull tag. Just to damm many hunters.
 
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