The ultimate Elk Cartridge? - Does a Man-Bun make you more sensitive to recoil?

When did we attach hairstyle to manliness and then to the 6.5 specifically?!
What do balding men shoot?
What about men turning grey?
White hairs?! Wigs? Dyed hair?
What about teenagers who haven’t determined their hairstyle yet and cannot grow a beard of any caliber?
What should girls be shooting? Do redheads shoot the same gun as brunettes?
Does military service factor in? -because I know some swat guys that hide their long hair under their helmets with a man bun and quite honestly, they are true and genuine badasses.
I typically shoot my elk with an arrow, does this make me a bushman. . .
 
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Lots of thoughts on this:
1) Flinch is developed based off of the shooter, not the caliber, but starting a young shooter off on a heavy recoiling gun makes them more likely to develop flinch
2) Modern bullets make smaller calibers much more effective than they used to be. A 223 for whitetail is now perfectly ethical
3) Counter to point 2, people are not ethical. A 223 is a great deer round - when used ethically (my personal hard deck is 150 yards). A chest shot at 300 yards is not ethical, but people will do it and then blame the cartridge when they wound game. The 6.5 Creedmore is still suffering from poor bullet selection and poor shot choice
4) Hunters don’t practice enough with whatever rifle they choose
5) When in doubt, 30-06
6) Nothing is inherently wrong with a man bun. It used to be associated with former military and workers too busy to get a haircut, but much like Timberland boots and Carhartt it has became a fad for guys who consider using stairs over an elevator blue collar
 
Some people just like to hear themselves talk, like Mr. Man Bun!
 
I try not to overthink this stuff. My same 30-06 has been killing deer, elk, moose, coyotes, grouse, and plains game since 1964. I practice enough to get it zeroed and put it away till I go hunting. Flinching has never been a problem ... that I know of anyway.
 
With the right bullet and within a reasonable distance, a 6.5CM provides the same performance as 6.5x55.

The issue I see with the manbun crowd going with the CM is the idiotic belief that ELD-X or VLDH are good choices for elk, and that it's a 600 yard elk cartridge. That's just straight up retardation.

I shoot ELD-X at the range with my Swede because I can reload them a lot cheaper than I can my preferred 160 gr Woodleighs, and Hornady bullets are always available somewhere.

Given a reasonable shooting distance, there's no ungulate I wouldn't confidently hunt with 160 gr Woodleigh or even Hornady RN, 156 gr Oryx, or 155 gr Mega. For elk and using 140 gr, I'd stick with premiums like A Frame or North Fork. For white tails and mulies, any of the 140 gr cup-and-cores like SGK, Interlock, CoreLokt, Partition, or Grand Slam will do the trick.

BC doesn't mean jack squat at the distances where a 6.5 is useful on elk.
 
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Jeez- 7 rem mag with a heavy for caliber bullet or the 338 will be great.
 
It is a fact that with increasing recoil accuracy drops. It is a common, but incorrect, belief that recoil only occurs after the bullet leaves the barrel. The recoil process starts at the time of ignition. So, any of us who does not have the perfect, repeatable position that (s)he consistently maintains after (s)he pulls the trigger and the bullet travels down the barrel will shoot inferior groups with higher recoiling rifles. This is only partially related to the perceived/anticipated recoil.
Indeed, I shoot my 6.5 creed (incidentally also a Sako s20) better than my 300 or 338 magnums. Nevertheless, the minor difference in my ability to shoot my 6.5 better than my larger caliber rifles is not really meaningful inside 400m. Thus, when I hunt game bigger than deer and I choose my 300 or 338 I keep my shots within 350-400m. This way I feel I have an adequately stout bullet and the impact energy (I know, even this word is frowned upon these days) that provides adequate penetration if some unforeseen issue compromises my bullet placement.
Therefore, I think the argument that considers accuracy alone is flawed. Assuming you are able to produce adequate accuracy with your larger caliber rifles, they have an inherent advantage when hunting truly big game, even with the recognition that this may limit your maximum range.
 
I'm of the camp that you should match the rifle, bullet weight and type to the game. When my kids were young, I set them up with a .243 and it worked just fine. But I wouldn't think of using a light caliber myself. Why? I want to reduce any opportunities for error, one way to do that is use a caliber and bullet that can afflict the most damage and increase the odds of knocking an elk down in his tracks. That doesn't mean using a .50 Cal but also doesn't include a light caliber either.
 
This kick of using the smallest bullet borders on being unethical to me. Do the animal a favor and shoot the biggest thing at it that you have total control and accuracy/prowess with. If that is only a .243, well good luck. In investing and life, there is a concept of "margin of safety" and i think it matters for cartridges used in hunHe'll, not every bullet is placed perfectly -- hunt long enough and you will pull one, hit a branch or misjudge the wind. Then bullet mass and velocity matter.

I have been debating an elk hunt and then debating do I shoot one of my .300 win mags (I used a BAR in .300wm to kill the only elk I have ever had a shot at and that was an AT&T reach out and touch somebody 600 yard shot which is long for me) or my .375H&H or my new .404J that is being built.

On ranches that I hunt in Texas, we'll let you use a 6.5 man-bun but the pigs will run off often. Kills deer fine assuming proper bullet and placement. I'm not saying a .22 long rifle won't kill a cape buffalo with proper placement" but I don't think it wise or ethical.

Hell, go back to spears and slingshots. With proper placement....
Apologies to our Gen-X hunters out there if I step on your toes. I enjoy reading and watching videos about other hunters thoughts on best cartridges for various hunting applications. This morning I watched one that made me wonder WTF is going on with today's hunters?

The hunter was about late twenties to early thirties and lived somewhere out west where he hunts Elk every year. He was musing on what makes the ideal Elk cartridge. A big Magnum like a 300wm or a smaller, lighter round like the 6.5cm? He cited studies which concluded that bullet caliber and weight and energy do not matter at all or much anyways and that first shot accuracy is the most critical variable. Not hard to argue so far. He also cited a study by the US Army stating that soldiers rifle accuracy and shotgun accuracy fell off once recoil exceeded 11 ft-lbs. Really?? I wondered if the test subjects were field cooks or Delta operators, lol.

The author then went on to say that he flinches when he shoots a 308. At this point I noticed his Man-Bun and was reminded of a study of the pussification of the American male and that American men of today have a 20% lower testosterone level when compared to the men of 1947. Anyways in the end this so-called expert claimed that the absolute best Elk cartridge is the 22 Creedmore but that since it is not legal in all Elk hunting states, he recommends the 6.5 Creedmore over other notable choices like the 338wm or 300wm or 7mm RM etc. His argument is that lung tissue is easy to damage and if you shoot an Elk thru both lungs with a 22 it kills them just as dead as if you shoot them with a 338 Lapua and it won't hurt your shoulder. Well Hell, who knew? His logic is that all hunters shoot light recoiling rifles better than the big heavy hitters like 300wm thus they will place their hits better on game in the field if they shoot a mild cartridge and the animal will not know any better.

I have been prepping for a fall Elk & Moose hunt and was struggling with the choice between a 338wm or a 7mm RM and all this time all I needed to do was bring my 243. For the record the rifle that I shoot most accurately is my Sako S20 Hybrid in 243 with a 5-25x scope. The recoil is nothing but the big ass tgt scope is useless for hunting unless you are shooting very long shots from a solid rest in open territory. Think plains prairie dog or coyote maybe pronghorn. Not much else. That said the rifles I shoot best also include a 375HH, 7mmRM, 30-06 and a 7mm/08. All of those kick more than my 243 and all of them have proper hunting glass on them. So, I cannot buy the theory that recoil reduces accuracy. It just forces hunters to practice and concentrate on fundamental marksmanship technique. But, for the record, my hair is not long enough to pull back into a Man-Bun and likely never will be. My daughter is 5' 10" and is a size 2. She weighs maybe 120lbs soaking wet and shoots a 308 and a 45acp just fine. She can still pull her hair into a bun but it does not seem to impact her marksmanship.

Any of you Nimrods out there ever take a Moose or a Elk with a 243? or a 223? Maybe it will sound more effective if I called it my Sako 243 a 6mm/08? 80g Barnes TTSX or Fed Fusion bullets. How does it do? Us big Magnum hunters want to know. Pic below of my 243 Moose rifle attached for entertainment value only.

View attachment 777287
I'll just point out that GenX is way older than being in their 30s, most of us are in our 50s. The people you saw at that age are GenZ.
 
This. The youngest Gen Xers are in their late 40s, and most don't have enough hair anymore for a man bun.
Speak for yourself, I'm early 50s and have as much hair as I ever did--and no gray!
 
My dad started me with a 7 Mag when I was 10. He meant well but it was a bad idea.

If I'm not careful and mindful I flinch with a 7x57. I don't have a man bun but I guess according to this poster I'm a pussy. Oh well.

Not everybody flinches. But waaaay more guys flinch than admit it. Even very manly man-bun free men.
 
As a young (ish!) hunter that is younger still than the Gen X camp I’ll be honest, I found this a difficult read.

Labelling a generation as “sissified” based on not liking the outcome of a YouTube video you watched this afternoon is, to be polite, quite a leap. To be direct, it is a complete non sequitur. Like it or loathe it, the average hunter; their training, accuracy, precision and ability, is much closer to cookhouse chef than Delta Operator. I say that as an active duty veteran and avid hunter. I find the results of the US Army very easy to believe I am afraid.

For what it is worth, I have ethically and humanely harvested Red Deer with a .243 Win and never had them run more than 20 yards after a well placed shot.

The details, dare I say the facts, appear to be irrelevant I fear as this thread has immediately degraded into emotive condescension. When you find yourself reading any of the multitude of threads on this site and others that question why there are fewer and fewer young hunters/reloaders etc, consider conversations like this one and ask yourself if, if in a younger hunters shoes, you would choose to join a community like ours.
 
This conversation is on fire with the younger western hunter groups. They are promoting 6mm and .22 Creed for virtually all NA game. They all say in uniformity "it's all about shot placement". That works well at the range but what about the last day of a western hunt and the elk is quartering (either way) and it's not an ideal shot for a little .22? I mean you've worked your butt off and here is one chance. I guess they all just go home and are happy with an expensive camping trip? Remember it's all about shot placement. Not for me. I am going to thump him with a 180g TTSX and go home happy regardless of shot presented!
I agree with the others who mention suppressors. A 7mm Mag with a can, can't everyone shoot that accurately?
Anyone else know, seriously, why they are wanting to go as small as possible?
 
So, according to this logic bows don’t send arrows fast enough with enough damage?
I have shot an elk with 7mm rem mag. But, last summer on a tiny ten specific hunt I took a kudu at 90 yards with a 6.5 creedmoor ELDX one shot. DRT
My two youngest daughters two weeks ago shot two impala, a large zebra mare, and a wildebeest with a 243 shooting Barnes TSX. All but the wildebeest were one shot kills and the wildebeest was one bad shot and one really great shot. The younger daughter also took a very sick buffalo cow with a 243 between the eyes. That was mercy not hunting. The argument is proper bullets at reasonable speeds placed accurately often do what they are supposed to do. The size of the bullet, weight of the bullet, and speed of the bullet can often be secondary issues.
Gen X member, (I grew a man bun to give my hair away for a wig for cancer patients), and I love my 375 h and h. But the smaller calibers have their place.
 
This conversation is on fire with the younger western hunter groups. They are promoting 6mm and .22 Creed for virtually all NA game. They all say in uniformity "it's all about shot placement". That works well at the range but what about the last day of a western hunt and the elk is quartering (either way) and it's not an ideal shot for a little .22? I mean you've worked your butt off and here is one chance. I guess they all just go home and are happy with an expensive camping trip? Remember it's all about shot placement. Not for me. I am going to thump him with a 180g TTSX and go home happy regardless of shot presented!
I agree with the others who mention suppressors. A 7mm Mag with a can, can't everyone shoot that accurately?
Anyone else know, seriously, why they are wanting to go as small as possible?
Spotting their shot through the scope is what most of them will say. And more accurate.
 
308 would certainly cover it but if I’m grabbing a rifle for large elk and bigger animals it’ll be the 7mm I took for plains game or the 375 I hope to take next time.

As for the 6.5 craze I’d sure love to find a 264 Win Mag it punches hard a relative kills about everything with his
 
There is nothing new about hunters choosing and using smaller calibers because they did not like recoil. William Dalrymple Maitland Bell was one, Jim Corbett hunted man eating tigers, which are both large and dangerous, with a .275 Rigby and closer to our timeline Ganyana (Don Heath) admitted to not liking heavy recoiling rifles. I am pretty sure that none of them wore man-buns and even if they did, I would certainly not draw any conclusions about them being lesser men or not being competent and ethical hunters.

Choosing 6.5mm's for hunting large animals is not a new trend either. The 6.5x54 MS, 6.5x57 Mauser and 6.5x58 Portuguese were all very popular calibers in Africa and were used on large animals. The 6.5x55 was (and probably still is) very popular in Scandinavia for use on moose.

I regularly hunt with a 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, a 6.5x55 and, in case you thought there was a trend forming here, also a 7x57, .30-06 Springfield, 9.3x62, .375 H&H and .416 rem mag. Recoil, from field positions, does not bother me and I do not think that I shoot better with the smaller calibers, to the extent that it would make a noticeable difference at normal hunting ranges. But I hunt almost every day, and I believe that recoil is something that most hunters can become accustomed to with practise. However, a significant number of the hunters that I guide, shoot a suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor much better than even a suppressed .30-06 and I do believe that shot placement and bullet quality is significantly more important than caliber.

I have no experience on elk, but I do have significant experience on blue wildebeest, zebra, kudu, gemsbok, waterbuck and eland and I will rather let a client shoot any of these with a 6.5 Creedmoor, with which he is comfortable, using a quality hunting bullet, than with a .30-06, .300 win mag or .375 H&H that he is scared off.
 
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