Your minimum 3 shot group and max distance on first shot on Africa safari

Mark458

Mark458

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I'm asking all you hunters out there for your feedback on the following 2 questions:

1. What is the minimum 3 shot group size that you are willing to go on safari with?

2. What is the maximum distance for your first shot?

I know there are countless variables I left out so please allow me to try and narrow things down a bit.

Concerning question number one I am assuming you have zeroed your rifle from the bench and were happy with the results. I'm referring to the group you are shooting standing and using sticks (preferably the sticks you are taking with you or the same style your PH will have available). For the sake of this discussion we're talking about 100 yards for scoped rifles and perhaps less for non scoped or double rifles. I'll rely on you to fill in those details.

Concerning question number two I'm referring to the comfortable range of your first shot. I consider that there are 2 categories within this question. One distance is for plains game and the other is for dangerous game. Again fill in your details as it will change with target animal. I know elephant will be a closer range than buffalo.

I ask this due to my past experiences starting with my 3rd safari (my first 2 trips were bow hunting, but shoulder problems has resulted in my follow 10 trips to be with a rifle). I learned quickly on my first rifle safari I didn't do nearly enough practice from sticks as I should have. I never lost any animals, but I couldn't get as steady on sticks as I needed to be and thus shortened my effective range.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
 
Mark458 said:
1. What is the minimum 3 shot group size that you are willing to go on safari with?

2. What is the maximum distance for your first shot?
Click to expand...
1.5 moa
200 meters.

so far in 5 safaris, i am 100%.
 
I thinnk you mean "maximum 3 shot group" as in the largest group.
I have been 15 times to Africa and shot camp guns, my guns and mystery guns.
I do not think in terms of MOA or group. I do check the rifles to be sure they can hit 6" at 100 yards. If they can, and I can figure out how they shoot, the trigger pull, and the optics, then I am good to go.

More accurate is always better but the shooter is more important than the weapon or the caliber. You must be able to hit what you aim at... under pressure.

For me, 150 yards is max. I have taken 100 or more game animals in Africa. Only one was over 150 yards - a baboon. The rest are close. My closest? Bongo at 1 yard off hand and holding the rifle out an angling the shot. The cover was thick and the dogs had the bongo jumping around. I used a rifle with no sights - no open sights and no scope. The PH said the shot would be very close. It was.

I used an unsighted shotgun on blue and Peter's duikers as well.

I have shot 8 or so buffalo, all at 50 yards and closer. One at 7 yards.

Same with sitatunga from a machan - 150 yds in fog.

I don't always connect - worst miss - 45"or better sable, broadside off a rest at 125 yards. Clean miss under the belly. Oh well...

Anyway - shoot the gun you shoot the best and know intimately.

Also, you can get very close, if you and your PH try.....
 
Also, shooting off sticks is not hard. Practice a bit and you will get it down. I use them whenever I can as well as any rest I can find.
 
For plains game:
I start with a 1/2 MOA rifle.
That makes me MOA on sticks.
Good to 200 yards on the sticks for a first shot.
Good to 500 yards on a good “Diesel Stick”.
 
Thanks for your reply and yes you are correct that my wording was misleading. I meant the largest group that you would accept going into a hunt.
 
dogcat1 said:
I thinnk you mean "maximum 3 shot group" as in the largest group.
I have been 15 times to Africa and shot camp guns, my guns and mystery guns.
I do not think in terms of MOA or group. I do check the rifles to be sure they can hit 6" at 100 yards. If they can, and I can figure out how they shoot, the trigger pull, and the optics, then I am good to go.

More accurate is always better but the shooter is more important than the weapon or the caliber. You must be able to hit what you aim at... under pressure.

For me, 150 yards is max. I have taken 100 or more game animals in Africa. Only one was over 150 yards - a baboon. The rest are close. My closest? Bongo at 1 yard off hand and holding the rifle out an angling the shot. The cover was thick and the dogs had the bongo jumping around. I used a rifle with no sights - no open sights and no scope. The PH said the shot would be very close. It was.

I used an unsighted shotgun on blue and Peter's duikers as well.

I have shot 8 or so buffalo, all at 50 yards and closer. One at 7 yards.

Same with sitatunga from a machan - 150 yds in fog.

I don't always connect - worst miss - 45"or better sable, broadside off a rest at 125 yards. Clean miss under the belly. Oh well...

Anyway - shoot the gun you shoot the best and know intimately.

Also, you can get very close, if you and your PH try.....
Click to expand...
I've had similar results over the years although I have done all my hunting in South Africa. Most of my shot have been 100 yards or less. Normally hunting in Limpopo in the fairly thick bushveld. The longest shot I took was last September on a springbuck hunt in the Free State. About 275 yards. Practice is what allowed me to shoot on target at that distance off sticks. Never could have done that on my first trip.
 
Mark458 said:
I'm asking all you hunters out there for your feedback on the following 2 questions:

1. What is the minimum 3 shot group size that you are willing to go on safari with?

2. What is the maximum distance for your first shot?

I know there are countless variables I left out so please allow me to try and narrow things down a bit.

Concerning question number one I am assuming you have zeroed your rifle from the bench and were happy with the results. I'm referring to the group you are shooting standing and using sticks (preferably the sticks you are taking with you or the same style your PH will have available). For the sake of this discussion we're talking about 100 yards for scoped rifles and perhaps less for non scoped or double rifles. I'll rely on you to fill in those details.

Concerning question number two I'm referring to the comfortable range of your first shot. I consider that there are 2 categories within this question. One distance is for plains game and the other is for dangerous game. Again fill in your details as it will change with target animal. I know elephant will be a closer range than buffalo.

I ask this due to my past experiences starting with my 3rd safari (my first 2 trips were bow hunting, but shoulder problems has resulted in my follow 10 trips to be with a rifle). I learned quickly on my first rifle safari I didn't do nearly enough practice from sticks as I should have. I never lost any animals, but I couldn't get as steady on sticks as I needed to be and thus shortened my effective range.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Click to expand...
At 100 yards on quad sticks = same group as bench = 1-1.5"

With standard tripod sticks = 2"

From sitting position (which I prefer to sticks if possible = 1"

Longest shot I took on quad sticks was impala at 280 meters. It was the second animal on first safari shot maybe an hour after first animal, a blesbuck at maybe 130 yards. Almost forgot ... last animal on first safari was kudu at 11th hour of last day at 330 meters with two sets of sticks one under fore end and the other under pistol grip. That was a loaner 30-06 I switched to the last day when the scope broke on my rifle. And it was offered, probably because I was using my ammo. Bull gave me a second opportunity, I adjusted for windage, and dropped him with broken neck. If the PH had told me the distance, I would not have taken the shot. He knew that so didn't tell me. :D

I was quite surprised when he told me the range of impala ... also after the shot and animal was down. It was difficult judging animals of different size from what I was used to in North America, and looking through a brand new variable power scope.

Incidentally, my first animal in Africa was my first time shooting on sticks. No problem.
 
I’ve done 15 safaris in 7 countries so far. I expect to shoot anywhere up to 300 yards off sticks on any hunt. My furthest first shot has been 360 yards. My closest has been 5 yards. Before a trip, I’d want to see 1.5” maximum groups, but preferably closer to 1”.

I will add I do think I’m a better shot off sticks than many. I get a lot of opportunity to practice. I also take my own rifles and 4 stable sticks on every hunt. The 4 stable sticks have dramatically changed my shooting. If I had a rental rifle I wasn’t completely comfortable with or had to shoot from a tripod I think 200 yards would be my maximum. The handful of shots I’ve taken beyond 300 yards have been in open country where I had an opportunity to reload and shoot again. I wouldn’t casually take a shot over 300 without thinking about it, but will under right conditions.
 
I grew up hunting in East TN…shots were rarely over 50 yards or so..just too thick.
My first trip to Africa…In Eastern Cape I went to their range with steel plates. Was able to hit out to 285 no problem (furthest plate and the furthest I had ever shot until that day)
My first morning out I shot a Kudu coming off a hill at 380…most shots were over 200 there. Shot a warthog running away at over 400…It was eye opening.
But… in most areas you will shoot from 50-150 or so.
People that talk about 1MOA tend to exaggerate (many videos on the subject where it’s really larger)
Bottom line is be confident in your ability and be confident on game when you are in the moment.
I don’t even know how many animals I’ve killed in Africa…but a good bit…I concentrate on the shot…aim small miss small and do well. The bullet will not hit far from your aim point regardless of some BS 1”/1.5” or whatever but having confidence the bullet is going where the crosshairs are? That’s really important
 
375Fox said:
I’ve done 15 safaris in 7 countries so far. I expect to shoot anywhere up to 300 yards off sticks on any hunt. My furthest first shot has been 360 yards. My closest has been 5 yards. Before a trip, I’d want to see 1.5” maximum groups, but preferably closer to 1”.

I will add I do think I’m a better shot off sticks than many. I get a lot of opportunity to practice. I also take my own rifles and 4 stable sticks on every hunt. The 4 stable sticks have dramatically changed my shooting. If I had a rental rifle I wasn’t completely comfortable with or had to shoot from a tripod I think 200 yards would be my maximum. The handful of shots I’ve taken beyond 300 yards have been in open country where I had an opportunity to reload and shoot again. I wouldn’t casually take a shot over 300 without thinking about it, but will under right conditions.
Click to expand...
I've always used the traditional tripod style sticks. That's what I've grown accostomed to. I need to practice with the 4 stable sticks and I know I would become a better shot. The pH had them last year but I wasn't comfortable with them at first. I really like to lean into my shot and they kept wanting to tilt forward. I need to get a set and get used to them. I'm leaving next month for another buffalo, but I'm using tripod sticks. I know it won't be more than 100 yards and that won't be a problem.
 
kpoynter said:
I grew up hunting in East TN…shots were rarely over 50 yards or so..just too thick.
My first trip to Africa…In Eastern Cape I went to their range with steel plates. Was able to hit out to 285 no problem (furthest plate and the furthest I had ever shot until that day)
My first morning out I shot a Kudu coming off a hill at 380…most shots were over 200 there. Shot a warthog running away at over 400…It was eye opening.
But… in most areas you will shoot from 50-150 or so.
People that talk about 1MOA tend to exaggerate (many videos on the subject where it’s really larger)
Bottom line is be confident in your ability and be confident on game when you are in the moment.
I don’t even know how many animals I’ve killed in Africa…but a good bit…I concentrate on the shot…aim small miss small and do well. The bullet will not hit far from your aim point regardless of some BS 1”/1.5” or whatever but having confidence the bullet is going where the crosshairs are? That’s really important
Click to expand...
It's nice having a rifle that will shoot great. I'm fortunate enough to have purchased a 404 Jeffery recently that will consistently cut the same hole at 100 yards from the bench. That's the one I'm taking with me next month. All that means is that I can't blame it on the rifle if I miss.
 
kpoynter said:
Bottom line is be confident in your ability and be confident on game when you are in the moment.
I don’t even know how many animals I’ve killed in Africa…but a good bit…I concentrate on the shot…aim small miss small and do well. The bullet will not hit far from your aim point regardless of some BS 1”/1.5” or whatever but having confidence the bullet is going where the crosshairs are? That’s really important
Click to expand...
I don’t know why you’d write 1”/1.5” is BS. Any modern rifle is easily capable of it with right ammo. I have prioritized bullet performance in larger calibers (swifts are not the most accurate for me), but if you are taking a PG rifle such as 7mm, 300 mag, etc and can’t shoot 1-1.5” off bench after trying a few different ammos it’s a sign of a flinching issue that will only be amplified off the bench and lead to wounded game especially at further distances.
 
Mark458 said:
I've always used the traditional tripod style sticks. That's what I've grown accostomed to. I need to practice with the 4 stable sticks and I know I would become a better shot. The pH had them last year but I wasn't comfortable with them at first. I really like to lean into my shot and they kept wanting to tilt forward. I need to get a set and get used to them. I'm leaving next month for another buffalo, but I'm using tripod sticks. I know it won't be more than 100 yards and that won't be a problem.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of threads on using quad sticks. They do take a different style than a tripod. Consider them more of a neutral rest for your rifle. The more weight I bear into them the less accurate I am. A tripod takes practice to be accurate. Quad sticks take practice to be fast, but once you learn to use them the biggest advantage is no left or right movement so a lot less chance of wounding game on a broadside shot.
 
I was shooting about 1 MOA.
I felt good on sticks to just over 200 yards. I only had a couple of shot within a 200 yards. Where i was at in Namibia the shots were very far. Usually 400 or just over. Luckily, I did okay.
 
Mark458 said:
I'm asking all you hunters out there for your feedback on the following 2 questions:

1. What is the minimum 3 shot group size that you are willing to go on safari with?

2. What is the maximum distance for your first shot?

I know there are countless variables I left out so please allow me to try and narrow things down a bit.

Concerning question number one I am assuming you have zeroed your rifle from the bench and were happy with the results. I'm referring to the group you are shooting standing and using sticks (preferably the sticks you are taking with you or the same style your PH will have available). For the sake of this discussion we're talking about 100 yards for scoped rifles and perhaps less for non scoped or double rifles. I'll rely on you to fill in those details.

Concerning question number two I'm referring to the comfortable range of your first shot. I consider that there are 2 categories within this question. One distance is for plains game and the other is for dangerous game. Again fill in your details as it will change with target animal. I know elephant will be a closer range than buffalo.

I ask this due to my past experiences starting with my 3rd safari (my first 2 trips were bow hunting, but shoulder problems has resulted in my follow 10 trips to be with a rifle). I learned quickly on my first rifle safari I didn't do nearly enough practice from sticks as I should have. I never lost any animals, but I couldn't get as steady on sticks as I needed to be and thus shortened my effective range.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Click to expand...
Honestly I am going by what I use in the states I would want 1 in groups and have a 300 yd limit on the smaller game

On larger game I would want closer to me before the shot.


I know I am not answering about African game
That’s because I have not shot any
And with Helth problems mine and close family the chance of shooting over there is less and less.
 
375Fox said:
There are a lot of threads on using quad sticks. They do take a different style than a tripod. Consider them more of a neutral rest for your rifle. The more weight I bear into them the less accurate I am. A tripod takes practice to be accurate. Quad sticks take practice to be fast, but once you learn to use them the biggest advantage is no left or right movement so a lot less chance of wounding game on a broadside shot.
375Fox said:
There are a lot of threads on using quad sticks. They do take a different style than a tripod. Consider them more of a neutral rest for your rifle. The more weight I bear into them the less accurate I am. A tripod takes practice to be accurate. Quad sticks take practice to be fast, but once you learn to use them the biggest advantage is no left or right movement so a lot less chance of wounding game on a broadside shot.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I know it's a different style that I just have to take the time to get used to. After this hunt I'm going to get a set of 4 stable sticks and make a concerted effort to practicing with them. I know it will make me a better shot.
Click to expand...
 
•1-1.25” MOA on the bench
•Off sticks maybe 1.5”-2” at 150, maybe smaller not sure as once I zeroed I just shot off sticks but could see impacts of center mass steel plates at 150 and 200yds.

As long as I was on steel on the 150 and 200 yard at home I felt very good. Trying not to over think or stress it as to keep the mentality clear.

Longest shot in Limpopo was maybe 150. I think it was like 132 yards to be exact. It was fast and on 2.5x on the scope, the motions seemed second nature getting on sticks, aiming and pulling the trigger.

9 for 9 animals down on my first trip. 2 animals needed tracking due to not DRT shots but still lethal to track and finish.

I had never shot off sticks ever in my life until February, my trip was May 1.
Being an off hand shooter and also a sling support guy the sticks felt like I was cheating. Just practice and practice more, I never missed a shot at my 200 yd steel even though sometimes they would be high or low but hitting the plate I thought of it as a kill.
I over think ALOT on bullet choice and if my groups were good enough. Once I stopped doing that I could sleep at night and everything was fine.

2 MOA would be acceptable as your bench groups don’t really matter at all if you practice offhand and on sticks.
 
kpoynter said:
I grew up hunting in East TN…shots were rarely over 50 yards or so..just too thick.
My first trip to Africa…In Eastern Cape I went to their range with steel plates. Was able to hit out to 285 no problem (furthest plate and the furthest I had ever shot until that day)
My first morning out I shot a Kudu coming off a hill at 380…most shots were over 200 there. Shot a warthog running away at over 400…It was eye opening.
But… in most areas you will shoot from 50-150 or so.
People that talk about 1MOA tend to exaggerate (many videos on the subject where it’s really larger)
Bottom line is be confident in your ability and be confident on game when you are in the moment.
I don’t even know how many animals I’ve killed in Africa…but a good bit…I concentrate on the shot…aim small miss small and do well. The bullet will not hit far from your aim point regardless of some BS 1”/1.5” or whatever but having confidence the bullet is going where the crosshairs are? That’s really important
Click to expand...
Tri Cities here. On the ridge tops, 50 yards was a long shot. Hardwoods and brambles. Limpopo was like the open plains to me!
 
At the range i like to see 1.5 MOA. It feels like an accomplishment. I take pics of the targets and send them to my buddies. Its all good. When i get to Africa, im concentrating on MOV (Minute Of Vitals). The shots come quickly and steady is in the perception of the shooter. My first shot in Africa was on a kudu. I was in a blind overlooking the Sand River. My PH pointed out the bull down below to my left. After a few seconds of fumbling, I had him in the scope. My PH said, "If you are on his shoulder, you can take him." I took two long breaths and squeeeeezed. People were patting me on the back. I assumed it was to comfort me after a miss, but everyone was smiling! My PH said, "Well done Mr. Eric! And at 365 too!" Honesty, if I would have known the yardage, I wouldn't have taken the shot. If I'm picking, 200 yards would be my max.
 
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