Changing to new batch of powder- what safety margin do you need?

I do exactly ZERO changes with new powder batches... still here... POI still within an inch at 100 yards.
Make up a batch, fire a three shot group at 100, look for pressure sings adjust POI as required, grab a beer and some popcorn, put on a Western, hop on the recliner.
 
I do exactly ZERO changes with new powder batches... still here... POI still within an inch at 100 yards.
Make up a batch, fire a three shot group at 100, look for pressure sings adjust POI as required, grab a beer and some popcorn, put on a Western, hop on the recliner.
Or diet pop, rice cakes, and Richard Simmons. :D
 
Just to err on the side of caution, you might want to load up 10 of them and shoot them and examine them for sign of pressure problems. At the same time you can chronograph them to see if they are producing the same speed.
 
Hi all, if I have a load worked up and I am changing to a new batch of the same primers and/or new batch of same powder, how much do I need to back off. I have a mild load for my 458 lott which was a few grains off maximum. It is 2195 fps and maxes out around 2270 fps. So basically it is not close to max load. Do you back off to minimum or do you have a safe percentage from maximum where it is OK to load and then use a chronograph to check ?
@Nhoro
With a new batch of powder I back off one to two grains depending on the case capacity and work back up to the desired velocity.
By in bulk if you can in 8# jugs.
If you can only get 1# containers by a few and mix them together and rebortle that way you have a few bottles of the same type and don't have to worry when you change to a new bottle.
I did that with 15 one pound containers of cfe223. That way it don't matter the batch number they are all the same.
Bob
 
You talking just different lot of powder but same type? Just load how you normally would.
@farmer_john
There can be differences in different batches. Sometimes I have had to go up two grains or down a couple of grains to get to where I was. Mightn't happen offend but it does happen.
If you are running near max in a smaller case it can put you over the top
Bob
 
If I am at or near max on a load I'll back off a grain or two just to check the pressures and velocity with a few loads.

If I am a number of grains below max I'll just load some to check pressures and velocity.

When I am working up a load I'll just purchase 1 lb bottles if it's a new powder for me. Other than that I purchase 5 or 8 lb jugs. If I go from loading out of a 1 lb bottle to the larger one I'll follow my practice of backing off a couple grains to verify things.

I have had powders vary a little from one batch to another
 
@farmer_john
There can be differences in different batches. Sometimes I have had to go up two grains or down a couple of grains to get to where I was. Mightn't happen offend but it does happen.
If you are running near max in a smaller case it can put you over the top
Bob
I rarely load to max. But generally ive found that its not that big a deal as performance is consistant for the lot. Little faster/slower doesnt make huge deal to me as i can account for it

No different than buying ammo of different lots. Theres always some variation in it.
 
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As a general rule, you need to be a bit careful about this if, and only if, you're really pushing the envelope.

Book max or above book max, loads with some signs of pressure, loads that you know are pushing things a bit on velocity, maybe odd ball wildcats or unusual powders for a given case where there's not much established data. Maybe powders that you know are a bit sensitive or where the QC isn't always the best.

There's not much variation batch to batch, but there is some, and if you're playing on the ragged edge, you might be wary of that. Same thing with big ambient temperature changes.

That said though, if you have a pretty normal, middle of the road load with a normal powder and cartridge combo you have a decent safety margin, so I wouldn't change anything. I'd be surprised if many hunters are cutting things that fine, it's usually more of a F class or Target rifle thing.

In your case, maybe do a short run of 10 or 20 rounds, confirm they're shooting about the same on velocity, no obvious differences in poi, no obvious pressure signs, then maybe do some due diligence for accuracy and consistency. But it's not a safety concern so much as a performance one at that juncture.
 
Nhoro, since you are using the same powder with no changes in brass, primers or bullets I'd load a few rounds using your current load, say 5 or so and run them over a chronograph as well as check them for group sizes. I doubt you will see a significant difference.
@Shootist43
Art
I've personally found case brand has a bigger influence than powder lot
My mate Greg use a 308 with 130gn projectiles. He can only get 47 gn of varget in his case an seat the projectile.
In my son's 308 with the same projectiles and powders I get 50gn.
Same light barrels 22" Greg gets 2,900fps I geta bit I've 3,000fps. I know not much difference in velocity but still a difference.
Bob
 
You would do yourself well to pay close attention to any powder changes, even within the same lot #!

And this goes especially for any of the Reloader and Accurate Powders. No two kegs are created equal, even within the same lot#. Years ago I started blending most of the powders I use. I am fortunate, I actually run pressure equipment here and able to get pressure data. Like most of us, I have been lazy at times, and just used the same load I had previously done pressure work on, when getting a new batch of powder, this caused an issue and an increase of 10000 PSI as well. And when you are working at 45000 PSI, an increase of 10000 PSI is subtantial and could lead to problems. On this particular load which was 42 grs of this powder, I had to back down to 39 gr to equal the previous 42 gr load. On another occasion in a larger caliber I had worked up loads that were perfectly safe at 62000 PSI with a 115 gr of this powder, from One, 5 lb keg. I eventually used that 5# Keg, and started with another one, but fortunately I did drop the charge. Had I used the 115 gr load with the new 5# Keg, it would have blown the rifle. I had to drop to 95 gr of the same powder, new keg, to equal the same velocity and pressures! On the next 5# keg of the same powder, it had to be lowered to 85 gr to equal.............. This could have led to a dangerous failure. I had to start load data on this cartridge over, and had to discontinue use of that powder completely. I still look for that very first Magic 5# keg, even blending different powders together, but I have yet to be successful in finding that magic 5# Keg that I started with.

I have not seen extreme changes in the IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester, or Ramshot powders. Minor differences yes, but nothing that would cause extreme concerns.

Regardless however, I blend all Reloader and Accurate powders. I blend IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester and Ramshot powders that I tend to use a lot of. Those that I do not use a lot of, I watch and test carefully when changing from Keg to Keg. I don't even pay attention to Lot#s anymore, I have seen major differences within the same lot#. We must keep in mind, before we receive a given powder, we do not know how it has been kept and the environment it has been kept in previously.

I have a clean uncontaminated 5 gallon bucket I use to mix and blend in. RL 7 is a powder I use a lot of, so I normally purchase 15+ lbs, pour it all in the bucket, mix it up thoroughly, and repackage it, and label it the day or month blended. Then it is off to the range and using the pressure equipment test the loads for the New Batch. Data kept from then on in that cartridge, references the Batch Date in each entry.

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Accurate 2230 is not a powder I use much of. It is or has been decent in 458 Winchester, and that is all I have ever used or tested it in. In 2013 I did a lot of data work with 458 Winchester and used some 2013 Vintage AA 2230 in some of that work. I had previously found some serious differences from 2011 Vintage AA 2230 to 2013 Vintage, by 3-5 gr of powder and 5000-7000 PSI. In 2022 I wanted to do some new 458 Winchester pressure data and elected to purchase some new AA 2230 for that. I did a comparison between 2013 Vintage and 2022 Vintage, and found the 2022 Vintage gave 5000 PSI less pressure than the 2013 Vintage, with only 30-40 fps less velocity with the same bullet. This was a plus I suppose. But, it shows you cannot just change powders without checking it and using safe practices.

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And below, you can easily see a vast difference in the two Vintages of 2230.

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Yes, making a powder change, I would pay very close attention, not just Lot# to Lot#, but from one can of powder to the next. I strongly recommend using larger 5# + kegs instead of 1# cans. Yes, you should drop by 10% to test. At minimum. If below where you were, work your way back to the velocity you were getting.

Primers within the same make and #, has never shown to be an issue. For instance, I have never seen a major difference in Federal 215s from one to another. Primers can be an issue if you were going from Federal to say Wincheser or CCI, or reverse.

Brass can be a big issue too, I think I have seen more of a difference in changing from one manufacturer of brass to another than primers. All brass is not created equal.
@michael458
You do exactly the same as me but I don't have the pressure equipment.
Been doing it for years blending powder.
I found out the hard way about case variance.
Changed brand of cases ( won't say what brands) for loads in my old 303. Bought some new cases prepped them all and loaded them up with the same load. First shot didn't feel right a kicked more than usual. Opened the bolt, well tried to ( needed a little help from a piece of timber). Primer was let's say rater flat. Then had to dismantle every round and start again. The load ended up being a lot less powder.
That was many many years ago. Since then if I change powder type/lot number, case or projectiles I start load development all over again.
Changing one item can change everything even switching from standard to magnum primers.
Bob
 
Primer Brisense.
this should give you an idea of what changes might happen with primer differences.
https://www.6mmbr.com/primerpix.html - this chart only lists a few. The brilliance, but length
ie: time of the flame generation is quite important along with diameter and whiteness of the flash is also quite important.
 
Maybe it’s just me, but with what I consider to be “blue-chip” powders like H-4831, H-4350, and Varget, I think the recipe is pretty much set. I’ve seen some Alliant Reloader stuff vary quiet a bit between lots.

I don’t get paranoid, but I usually load two or three and verify velocity hasn’t changed. Changing cases or primers can make a big difference, as has been said.
 
@Nhoro, I didn't see the type of powder you were using. I'm reminded of the fact that you might not have access to the powders we are accustomed to using. I have a number of AH buddies that live in Africa and complain bitterly about the lack of consistency with Somchem powders. My friends tell me that they have to call the factory to get comparisons between two or more lots of the same type of powder.
I have used Somchem but this load is Vihtavuori 130 or 130.
 
I don't have pressure measuring equipment but believe the info above. The one powder I've noticed the most difference in published loads over time is RL15 used in the .35 Whelen. For 20 years or so I've been using 58 grains with 250 grain bullets for 2500 fps. in my rifle. But current loads are closer to 54 gr. from most sources. I assume the powder has substantially increased burning rate over the last couple decades.
 
A lot of companies have reduced the pressure they load ammo to. Check out the new Speer Data for the Whelen
Data to 2,700fps with 250gr. SPEER sp.
 
just for your info, I was told by a guy I used to buy surplus powder from that a lot of powder is 75,000 pounds.
 
I don't have pressure measuring equipment but believe the info above. The one powder I've noticed the most difference in published loads over time is RL15 used in the .35 Whelen. For 20 years or so I've been using 58 grains with 250 grain bullets for 2500 fps. in my rifle. But current loads are closer to 54 gr. from most sources. I assume the powder has substantially increased burning rate over the last couple decades.
It's not the powder but the manufacturers lawyers. They are reducing the loads due to liaility.
 
A lot of companies have reduced the pressure they load ammo to. Check out the new Speer Data for the Whelen
Data to 2,700fps with 250gr. SPEER sp.
They are having lawyers write the manuals these days, the older manuals used to list higher charges than the new ones do, back when folks were not blaming someone else for their problems and suing anyone they can. MHO.
 

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