Politics

MauserM03Blog said:
Your credentials suggest you should be an intelligent and open minded fellow (and I'm sure you are in some contexts) and yet in your words you can't help but dismiss out of hand information that doesn't line up with your established thinking. If you were interviewing candidates for a senior post, would you select someone who demonstrated the characteristics you just have?
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"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"
 
MauserM03Blog said:
Resorting to, 'Oh yeah? Prove it!' is a poor alternative to, 'Hmmm, that's interesting and unexpected, quite frankly. I'll keep thinking about that.' I'm seeing a lot of narrow thinking amongst members here.

No need for specifics, but there have been times when I've found my views on important societal issues changing completely. It's happened slowly, and quickly. Can you think of times when this has happened for you?
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I can’t speak for Dave, but as for me, the times that my views have changed on IMPORTANT SOCIETAL ISSUES is zero. Not slowly nor quickly. Perhaps I was a little more grounded in my initial position than you are accustomed. That’s not closed mindedness. That’s a man that is secure in his beliefs and convictions, regardless of how the wind blows.
 
MauserM03Blog said:
Resorting to, 'Oh yeah? Prove it!' is a poor alternative to, 'Hmmm, that's interesting and unexpected, quite frankly. I'll keep thinking about that.' I'm seeing a lot of narrow thinking amongst members here.

No need for specifics, but there have been times when I've found my views on important societal issues changing completely. It's happened slowly, and quickly. Can you think of times when this has happened for you?
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"I'm seeing a lot of narrow thinking amongst members here"

I'll tell you what I told @Pondoro buddy, this is a politics thread on a gun forum. This is by far the greatest echo chamber I have ever been in. If you think you're going to see facts, logic, critical thinking skills, and open minded individuals in abundance here, you are mistaken. This is a place of cheap internet meme's, childish name calling, conspiracy theories, misplaced emotions, bullshit artists, and old men high on themselves.

One of the dudes your debating swears that obtaining citizenship documentation is completely free, despite repeated sources cited to the contrary.
 
Big_Easy said:
"I'm seeing a lot of narrow thinking amongst members here"

I'll tell you what I told @Pondoro buddy, this is a politics thread on a gun forum. This is by far the greatest echo chamber I have ever been in. If you think you're going to see facts, logic, critical thinking skills, and open minded individuals in abundance here, you are mistaken. This is a place of cheap internet meme's, childish name calling, conspiracy theories, misplaced emotions, bullshit artists, and old men high on themselves.

One of the dudes your debating swears that obtaining citizenship documentation is completely free, despite repeated sources cited to the contrary.
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And then you come along and spread your stench..
Critical thinking?..... LOL. That tiny little mind of yours is quite the Democrat dumpster fire

Nice try, Frostbite.
 
Tbitty said:
1. An easy Google search will provide you with numerous sources that nearly universally label the DHS Funding shutdown as a Democrat shutdown while they fight for ICE reform as part of the deal. Regardless of WHY they are doing it, it is undeniable THAT it is the Democrats doing it. --- Don't try to blame Republicans when that is clearly false.

1b. It is the Legislative branch only that dictates this funding issue. I'm not smart enough to know what options the Executive or Judicial Branches have to go around Legislative on this issue, but it would be extremely limited, if at all possible. So that leave the Republican majority Legislative branch. But, guess what? There are only 53 Republicans in the Senate, and 60 votes are needed to pass this DHS funding bill, which therefor allows a minority of Democrats to be able to hold up the progress.

As an aside, and why I mentioned in my previous post the entire Senate and House should be gutted and rebuilt with all new members, I take great issue with the fact that our Democrats and Republicans are so polarized that they largely refuse to work together. I honestly don't see how this country survives another 100 years without some sort of Civil War or major event that brings the two sides back together. Living in extreme divisive viewpoints cannot endure forever.

2. thanks, I will review.

3. As noted in separate post above, I meant Department of Education, not Energy. --- A good example how different interpretations of reading the same thing is possible.

4. You referenced Trump firing Federal Employees as Illegal. None of that deals with "These large multinational trillion dollar companies laying ppl off aren't loosing money buddy". Apples and Oranges conversations. ... We agree that useless employees being fired is beneficial: I see the employees he fired as, largely, useless employees. If you disagree, then we can discuss why.

5. I'm not sure what this section is in reference to, as it relates to either your original post or my reply to you. I have no problem with providing services to American Citizens. The services you mentioned: Post office, Amtrak, defense spending, all good. There are many more services and programs that are absolutely necessary and/or beneficial that require funding. There are also numerous services and programs that are completely useless and by every single metric considered a waste of money. More of this on point 6 next.

6. I have no misunderstanding of where federal monies go. I have a problem with where it goes. Do a google search for "useless government programs" and tell me with a straight face we don't have a spending problem. Tell me honestly that you don't think that gutting government waste (which can be whatever programs and services you want to acknowledge as wasteful) would not be beneficial to reigning in our massive debt.

I would love for you and every other person who would describe "bloated programs and salaries and spending" as mere rounding errors to send me $100 in rounding error each month. I'll retire and have one hell of a hunting budget living off your cumulative ignorance.

7. "Democrats didnt bury this country in debt. Republicans did." -- Bullshit... Both Democrats and Republicans buried us in debt.

View attachment 755325

You want to use Clinton as your example of how its not Democrats fault? Fair enough. I agree from 1993-2000 were easily the "Best" years of minimizing debt growth. Let's add some context: in those years, the debt grew most, and grew every year, between 1993-1996, when democrats had controlled congress (both chambers) from '87-'94. It was split chambers in '95-96 at its high. Then it reduced from '98-2001 while Republicans controlled both houses for the end of Clinton's years and to start Bush Jr's term. One could make an argument from that factual data that it was the Republicans in house/senate that were responsible for the balanced budget.

I could also provide you a chart that shows the 2 most massive debt increases under a presidents tenure happened under Democrats FDR & Wilson (and also under democrat controlled congress both times). Both of these were over right around 790% debt growth. The next closest is Regan at 161% (split or Democrat controlled congress), then Bush Jr at 73% (split or Republican congress), and Barry at 64% (all 3 variations of congress). Those are the only Presidents that had a % debt change over 43% during their terms. *I do not have data for Trumps 2nd term (since he's in office!!!) yet. ---- If we do it by actual dollar amount, for quicker summary, we have Biden highest over $8.4T, Trump 45 at $7.8T, Barry $7.66T, Bush Jr $4.2T as your top 4 in dollars.

Data can be manipulated. I'm not making the argument that Republicans are not to blame for the deficit, but you absolutely cannot argue that Democrats "didn't do it."

8. See above. You see the data how you want to shape it to fit your narrative. I see it differently. neither of us will convince the other they are "wrong" - I will encourage you to at least see that it's not 100% or even anywhere close to a majority one way or the other; I very much have acknowledged that.

9. Nope, I repeat #7 & #8.


This will be my last reply, I've more than proven my points. Anything more is just wasting breath to say the same thing in a round. I see why @mdwest bowed out a couple pages back. he also proved his points, numerous times, and this discussion has advanced as much as the Senate has on a DHS funding bill.
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"As an aside, and why I mentioned in my previous post the entire Senate and House should be gutted and rebuilt with all new members, I take great issue with the fact that our Democrats and Republicans are so polarized that they largely refuse to work together. I honestly don't see how this country survives another 100 years without some sort of Civil War or major event that brings the two sides back together. Living in extreme divisive viewpoints cannot endure forever."
Your points well stated in the post. Problem is Democrats and Republicans no longer share any common values as they did decades ago. It is more than just polarizing viewpoints. We use to disagree on the process of what was best for the country....I see the Democrats as totally focused on the power and no concern or value for Americans or their country....you can't fix that. If only we could gut the Senate and House and start over.
 
steve white said:
Sometimes you need PUNISHMENT, incarceration, fines and the like or justice is not done. Makes me sick when criminal behavior only results in resignation. That's what I want!
lAnd not primarily talking about the president. I would probably faint if I saw one rotten Democrat go to jail.
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I don’t think Carter did anything criminal. It isn’t a crime to make mistakes.

One thing that frustrates me is people who say that anyone who disagrees with them is a criminal it isn’t a crime to be wrong. It isn’t a crime to believe in communism, it isn’t a crime to be liberal.
 
Big_Easy said:
"I'm seeing a lot of narrow thinking amongst members here"

I'll tell you what I told @Pondoro buddy, this is a politics thread on a gun forum. This is by far the greatest echo chamber I have ever been in. If you think you're going to see facts, logic, critical thinking skills, and open minded individuals in abundance here, you are mistaken. This is a place of cheap internet meme's, childish name calling, conspiracy theories, misplaced emotions, bullshit artists, and old men high on themselves.

One of the dudes your debating swears that obtaining citizenship documentation is completely free, despite repeated sources cited to the contrary.
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You are freaking hilarious. You come to a hunting forum to debate political ideas? What you will find here is a group of men who , by and large, have been very successful in their career and personal lives, allowing them to pursue a passion that requires not a small amount of “get off your dead ass and make it happen”. Not sure that’s something with which you are familiar. But you keep on doing you. L
 
Flipper Dude said:
I can’t speak for Dave, but as for me, the times that my views have changed on IMPORTANT SOCIETAL ISSUES is zero. Not slowly nor quickly. Perhaps I was a little more grounded in my initial position than you are accustomed. That’s not closed mindedness. That’s a man that is secure in his beliefs and convictions, regardless of how the wind blows.
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Mine have… it’s been a slow process.. but I’ve become much more fiscally conservative and slightly more socially liberal over the years (still very much a social conservative.. just not quite as hard line as I once was)…

I think Mr Mauser is a bit confused on the difference in keeping an open mind vs allowing your time to be occupied by idiots though…

I consider myself extremely open minded… I’m very much an outside the box sort of thinker… you don’t spend a career doing the sort of work I do successfully otherwise…

But… I also am not one to suffer fools or waste my days on nonsense… time is a valuable commodity… it should be spent with people worthy of it..
 
For those on here who are on the Libtard/Dem/TDS koolaid and who only believe data and are too lazy or stupid or both to look it up here you go…. As of 2022, some 200,000 non citizens had acquired driver’s licenses in Colorado. The Colorado DMV, who issues driver’s licenses, is the primary supplier of the official data base for voter registration to the individual county clerks around the state. It is automatic for driver’s license applicants to also be registered to vote in Colorado.

Additionally as an aside, the same data base is also used as the primary pool for jury duty assignment notices around the state. Another nugget to ponder, eh? ;)

The county clerk sends ballots to voters based primarily on that DMV licensee data base. Non citizens receive ballots for voting. They (or whomever) fill out the ballot and mail it in or deliver it to voting collection boxes. The outside security envelope is signed by the voter. If the clerk or whomever checks the signature, it obviously matches the signature on file at the DMV. I doubt many if any are cross checked but it doesn’t matter. The ballot itself remains anonymous. So all is kosher. The voter data base has been successfully laundered through an official state data base. Who knows how many non citizens vote in Colorado, because such irregularities are not investigated in the bright blue sanctuary state of Colorado. The Secretary of State in Colorado certified a 30-40k batch of similarly questionable ballots coming from some jurisdiction (s)? in 2020. The record and data were destroyed. The state of Colorado prosecuted and a judge sentenced a county clerk in Mesa county Colorado to 9 years in prison for copying and preserving questionable voting data during the 2020 election. That person is still in prison. But no matter- “nothing to see here” so said multiple Dem activist judges involved in overseeing multiple election discrepancies around the US in 2020, saying they had found no impropriety…. without even investigating the impropriety! Believe whatever you like.
 
Russ16 said:
I don’t think Carter did anything criminal. It isn’t a crime to make mistakes.

One thing that frustrates me is people who say that anyone who disagrees with them is a criminal it isn’t a crime to be wrong. It isn’t a crime to believe in communism, it isn’t a crime to be liberal.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply any of that....with one exception-I think it ought to be criminal to be a communist, greatest killers in the history of mankind. YMMV
 
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Flipper Dude said:
Hey @deewayne2003 , you seem to really have a genuine disdain for Boomers. What gives?
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Not all just the more vocal and obnoxious ones and more like missing the greatest generation.

Some of my fondest memories center around the massive circle of WWII veteran friends my grandfather had and I was constantly around as a kid.

I actually have a great many friends that are boomers and they know my feelings on the matters most especially getting genuinely pissed at the expression that the current youth are drooling idiots to be looked down on.

Not especially on this forum, but in actual life I am surrounded by boomers on a daily basis and some of the negative views I hear expressed about kids I personally know that are 18 and under are infuriating outright lies.

One local couple with lakefront property make an Olympic sport in being incredibly profane and hostile to kids asking to fish on their property and if they use a boat to access from the lake side (epic sand bass fishing)they’ll go out and throw rocks in the water up and down the shore line.

If dueling was still legal I’d challenge man and wife both……
 
fourfive8 said:
For those on here who are on the Libtard/Dem/TDS koolaid and who only believe data and are too lazy or stupid or both to look it up here you go…. As of 2022, some 200,000 non citizens had acquired driver’s licenses in Colorado. The Colorado DMV, who issues driver’s licenses, is the primary supplier of the official data base for voter registration to the individual county clerks around the state. It is automatic for driver’s license applicants to also be registered to vote in Colorado.

Additionally as an aside, the same data base is also used as the primary pool for jury duty assignment notices around the state. Another nugget to ponder, eh? ;)

The county clerk sends ballots to voters based primarily on that DMV licensee data base. Non citizens receive ballots for voting. They (or whomever) fill out the ballot and mail it in or deliver it to voting collection boxes. The outside security envelope is signed by the voter. If the clerk or whomever checks the signature, it obviously matches the signature on file at the DMV. I doubt many if any are cross checked but it doesn’t matter. The ballot itself remains anonymous. So all is kosher. The voter data base has been successfully laundered through an official state data base. Who knows how many non citizens vote in Colorado, because such irregularities are not investigated in the bright blue sanctuary state of Colorado. The Secretary of State in Colorado certified a 30-40k batch of similarly questionable ballots coming from some jurisdiction (s)? in 2020. The record and data were destroyed. The state of Colorado prosecuted and a judge sentenced a county clerk in Mesa county Colorado to 9 years in prison for copying and preserving questionable voting data during the 2020 election. That person is still in prison. But no matter- “nothing to see here” so said multiple Dem activist judges involved in overseeing multiple election discrepancies around the US in 2020, saying they had found no impropriety…. without even investigating the impropriety! Believe whatever you like.
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Hello four.

Clearly, you're interested in voting reform.

Would you also agree to rank-choice voting, independent electoral commissions (setting boundaries and running elections), voting on Saturday, postal voting, absentee voting, compulsory voting?

Or are you only interested in reforms which you perceive to be an advantage to your preferred party?
 
So it’s not really a disdain for boomers, as much as it’s a disdain for Asswipes. Gotcha
 
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