Politics

HookMeUpII said:

Yup. Dyed red, slightly higher sulfur content, and more crude in terms of oil. The main reason is taxation. We get the off road stuff trucked in for our boat. I pay no tax. Last year when on-road was going for $4/gallon I was getting the off-road stuff trucked in for $3.15 a gallon. Makes a big difference when you're buying 300+ gallons. Home heating oil can also be burned in diesel engines and that can be cheaper.

They make a big deal about running offroad diesel in over-the-road equipment. The troopers here have test kits. It's usually a long swab they will dip down into the fuel tank to test to see if its dyed red. Huge fine if you're caught using it.

I've only ever heard of them doing that one time. It was to someone driving a commercial semi.

Click to expand...

After hurricane Ivan there was a shortage of on road diesel on the Gulf coast, at the time I was driving an F250 diesel and with the shortage of diesel our governor did an executive order allowing off rd diesel to be run on the road.
I ran maybe 2 tanks through the truck before on road was available again. About a week later I drove to Saskatchewan to bird hunt and while passing through South Dakota I went through a check point and they ran a swab in the tank, it came back pink as it had been diluted with several tanks of on road but they still had a lot of questions about it but one of the troopers said he had heard about the EO and let me go. He said it was a several thousand dollar fine if I wouldn’t have been from Alabama. Not sure if you can ever get all of the dye out of a tank unless having it scrubbed.
This was in 2004

Anymore off and on road diesel is exactly the same diesel fuel except for the red dye in the off road.

I've heard that they add the dye when the truck is loaded and I have heard that they add it at the stations.

I know a number of pickup truck owners who run the red dye in their diesel trucks without any extra filtering

JimP said:

Anymore off and on road diesel is exactly the same diesel fuel except for the red dye in the off road.

I've heard that they add the dye when the truck is loaded and I have heard that they add it at the stations.

I know a number of pickup truck owners who run the red dye in their diesel trucks without any extra filtering

Click to expand...

The content/additives are negligible. Besides the sulfur, off-road also supposedly has higher cetane which leads to slightly more soot. On-road may have higher levels of cleaners and stabilizers. I know some marine fuel docks run Valve-Tech diesel which has a bunch of additives and can cost you a kidney to fill your boat up. Same can be said for gas-station on-road diesel. It is also labeled ultra low sulfur. Off road is not.

It being not as dirty, personally, I can tell you is false. I've definitely noticed higher particulate concentrations in off road diesel than on road. One boat two years ago got a huge delivery of water-laden off road diesel. The supplier had to come back, pump out his whole tank, separate and filter it, then put it back in at no cost.

Here I don't know of any gas stations selling off-road. You have to go to fuel suppliers.

The only reason I know so much about this is because we've probably run about 10,000 gallons of it through our boat in the last 10 years.

I should also add, although can't verify, that some fuel outfits are putting in home heating all with off-road diesel to cut costs. One of those things you can't prove, but I've heard.

We have a couple of gas stations and our farmers co-op that has off road diesel.
Our farm has off road (tractors) and on road ( 18 wheelers)delivered in bulk along with DEFF for both and unleaded for our pickups.

Not uncommon for DOT to show up at rodeos or farm auctions and test trucks in the parking lot. At least in some areas.

HookMeUpII said:

The content/additives are negligible. Besides the sulfur, off-road also supposedly has higher cetane which leads to slightly more soot. On-road may have higher levels of cleaners and stabilizers. I know some marine fuel docks run Valve-Tech diesel which has a bunch of additives and can cost you a kidney to fill your boat up. Same can be said for gas-station on-road diesel. It is also labeled ultra low sulfur. Off road is not.

It being not as dirty, personally, I can tell you is false. I've definitely noticed higher particulate concentrations in off road diesel than on road. One boat two years ago got a huge delivery of water-laden off road diesel. The supplier had to come back, pump out his whole tank, separate and filter it, then put it back in at no cost.

Here I don't know of any gas stations selling off-road. You have to go to fuel suppliers.

The only reason I know so much about this is because we've probably run about 10,000 gallons of it through our boat in the last 10 years.

I should also add, although can't verify, that some fuel outfits are putting in home heating all with off-road diesel to cut costs. One of those things you can't prove, but I've heard.

Click to expand...

There are only 4 grades if diesel fuel

#1 which works best in cold climates.

#2 for most if not all vehicles. Light and heavy trucks and farm machinery.

#4 for heavy industrial use or low speed engines.

And then biodiesel.

I'm not counting bunker fuel that large ships use.

Cetane levels can fluctuate depending on the fuel mix. This is why mileage goes down during the winter when more #1 is mixed with #2 to prevent gelling.

A huge problem in a marine environment is the storage of the fuel. Is it in a old rusty steel tank or a new modern fiberglass tank, then there are the lines from the tanks to the pumps. It's the same problem with farm tanks that sit up on a stand. They are usually older and made out of steel. Very few of these tanks incorporate a water separator before or after the pump, and the pickup in the tanks is down on the bottom of the tanks where all the crud and water sits.

But in the end all of the diesel that is shipped out of the refineries for vehicle use is exactly the same except for the dye for off road .

Hunt anything said:

After hurricane Ivan there was a shortage of on road diesel on the Gulf coast, at the time I was driving an F250 diesel and with the shortage of diesel our governor did an executive order allowing off rd diesel to be run on the road.
I ran maybe 2 tanks through the truck before on road was available again. About a week later I drove to Saskatchewan to bird hunt and while passing through South Dakota I went through a check point and they ran a swab in the tank, it came back pink as it had been diluted with several tanks of on road but they still had a lot of questions about it but one of the troopers said he had heard about the EO and let me go. He said it was a several thousand dollar fine if I wouldn’t have been from Alabama. Not sure if you can ever get all of the dye out of a tank unless having it scrubbed.
This was in 2004

Click to expand...

The dye in the red fuel will also stain the paper in the fuel filter.

Hunt anything said:

After hurricane Ivan there was a shortage of on road diesel on the Gulf coast, at the time I was driving an F250 diesel and with the shortage of diesel our governor did an executive order allowing off rd diesel to be run on the road.
I ran maybe 2 tanks through the truck before on road was available again. About a week later I drove to Saskatchewan to bird hunt and while passing through South Dakota I went through a check point and they ran a swab in the tank, it came back pink as it had been diluted with several tanks of on road but they still had a lot of questions about it but one of the troopers said he had heard about the EO and let me go. He said it was a several thousand dollar fine if I wouldn’t have been from Alabama. Not sure if you can ever get all of the dye out of a tank unless having it scrubbed.
This was in 2004

Click to expand...

Correct. I was running from NV to WA frequently at that time driving my Dodge diesel. CHP had a check station about half way and I got checked every time. I asked one of the officers about it one day and he said the only way to completely clean a tank was to steam clean it and check any residue. Even the slightest discoloration will show up even after you run several tanks of highway diesel. The hefty fine was not worth the risk.

Tundra Tiger said:

I think that's it. We have all seen stories about high level execs and their golden parachutes when things go to crap, even as the everyday worker gets shafted. As several on here who have been executives have pointed out, those are the exceptions - not the rule. But the bad apples often dominate the spotlight.

Click to expand...

This is true at all levels however.. the executives just make better press...

a shit bag union worker gives the concept of union workers a bad rap..

a shit bag "minority" employee that plays race cards, LGBTQ cards, etc to protect themselves full well knowing they are shit bags... give minority employees a bad rap..

etc.. etc..

some $26 an hour turd electrician apprentice that mistreated customers, fucked his co-workers wife, stole from the company, and didnt even attempt to do good work wont even make the local newspaper.. no one is remotely interested..

while at the same time a CEO that cheats on his wife at a Coldplay concert is interesting enough to literally be a global discussion for a month.. doesnt matter if he is actually performing at the job, making his shareholders wealthy, etc.. everyone wants to focus on it..

I'd offer that for every CEO that is willfully screwing over his shareholders, or his customers, or his employees.. that there are a dozen junior executives out there just as bad (perhaps worse).. and a hundred senior managers.. etc..etc..

A guy didnt get promoted and then decide overnight to be a shitty human being or a horrible leader after his promotion...

He was very likely a horrible leader and a shitty human being the day he entered the work force...

JimP said:

There are only 4 grades if diesel fuel

#1 which works best in cold climates.

#2 for most if not all vehicles. Light and heavy trucks and farm machinery.

#4 for heavy industrial use or low speed engines.

And then biodiesel.

I'm not counting bunker fuel that large ships use.

Cetane levels can fluctuate depending on the fuel mix. This is why mileage goes down during the winter when more #1 is mixed with #2 to prevent gelling.

A huge problem in a marine environment is the storage of the fuel. Is it in a old rusty steel tank or a new modern fiberglass tank, then there are the lines from the tanks to the pumps. It's the same problem with farm tanks that sit up on a stand. They are usually older and made out of steel. Very few of these tanks incorporate a water separator before or after the pump, and the pickup in the tanks is down on the bottom of the tanks where all the crud and water sits.

But in the end all of the diesel that is shipped out of the refineries for vehicle use is exactly the same except for the dye for off road .

Click to expand...

Add arctic diesel to your list.

Latest oil futures must be dismaying for both the Iranian/Russian/Chinese propagandists all over social media and their fellow travelers in the Democrat Party.

TTh

WAB said:

Add arctic diesel to your list.

Click to expand...

That would pretty much be #1 or kerosene

I am appalled that Trump and Republican leadership allow subversive organizations to operate in a manner designed to take down capitalism and the United States. All the little protestors (many professional protestors showing up at multiple sites) carrying signs made by the Answer Coalition--created three days after 9/11, the Peoples Forum--anti capitalism, anti-imperialism, or Code Pink, founded and funded by the nefarious Neville Roy Singham, former high tech millionaire turned communist/Maoist, currently residing in Shanghai! Same signs, same source for opposing Maduros arrest, pro-Palestinian, pro Iranian, Stop Ice, Fire Musk, etc. all reading "Party of Socialism and Liberation" printed at the bottom!!
There is a line somewhere out there when freedom to protest becomes treasonous, seditionist. IMO we have seen it crossed. Now we have two IEDs thrown in NYC? That's what happens when you allow people to tote signs after Oct 7th stating "Resistance is justified when people are occupied."

I sincerely believe the US (and maybe much of the world) is more susceptible to propaganda now than were the German people preceding WWII

JimP said:

TTh

That would pretty much be #1 or kerosene

Click to expand...

JimP said:

Anymore off and on road diesel is exactly the same diesel fuel except for the red dye in the off road.

I've heard that they add the dye when the truck is loaded and I have heard that they add it at the stations.

I know a number of pickup truck owners who run the red dye in their diesel trucks without any extra filtering

Click to expand...

JimP said:

TTh

That would pretty much be #1 or kerosene

Click to expand...

Sort of, but definitely a different spec. I produced it out of the Fairbanks refinery. -60 pour if I remember correctly.

steve white said:

I am appalled that Trump and Republican leadership allow subversive organizations to operate in a manner designed to take down capitalism and the United States.

Click to expand...

The problem is that if they ignore the Constitution and the First Amendment because they don't like the message then it becomes a slippery slope. When Democrats come in power they would do the same, heck during Covid they indeed restricted anti-vaccine and anti-shutdown speech on social media by convincing FB etc.. With a Trump precedent they would be more overt.

spike.t said:

So worse than his father...not great for the Iranian people if he survives....

Iranians deeply divided over Mojtaba Khamenei's rise to power

While pro-establishment crowds celebrate Khamenei's appointment as his father's successor, others believe it signals no change to how Iran is ruled.

www.bbc.com

Click to expand...

He won’t survive.

CoElkHunter said:

He won’t survive.

Click to expand...

When I saw they chose Khameini's son to succeed him, and Israel say that for every new Supreme Leader they choose, he'll be the next target, it made me think of this gem from Gary Larson...

Is this just to "neat" of a package ?

steve white said:

I am appalled that Trump and Republican leadership allow subversive organizations to operate in a manner designed to take down capitalism and the United States. All the little protestors (many professional protestors showing up at multiple sites) carrying signs made by the Answer Coalition--created three days after 9/11, the Peoples Forum--anti capitalism, anti-imperialism, or Code Pink, founded and funded by the nefarious Neville Roy Singham, former high tech millionaire turned communist/Maoist, currently residing in Shanghai! Same signs, same source for opposing Maduros arrest, pro-Palestinian, pro Iranian, Stop Ice, Fire Musk, etc. all reading "Party of Socialism and Liberation" printed at the bottom!!
There is a line somewhere out there when freedom to protest becomes treasonous, seditionist. IMO we have seen it crossed. Now we have two IEDs thrown in NYC? That's what happens when you allow people to tote signs after Oct 7th stating "Resistance is justified when people are occupied."

I sincerely believe the US (and maybe much of the world) is more susceptible to propaganda now than were the German people preceding WWII

Click to expand...

Don’t forget the billionaire Marxist George Soros. He’s had his hand and money in much of the protests we’ve had in this country.