Game Department Rifles

steve white said:
I have a serious question: Given that Game Dept. Scouts carry semi/full auto rifles for protection, why cannot African PHs carry at least semi auto rifles like the Browning BAR converted to 458 Win Mag? They are not hunters, they are backup too. That would give a lot more margin in a sticky situation.
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@steve white you pose a fair question and they would certainly Stop-a-Charge.
I’m thinking Cost, availability, and trust would be a factor: How much is a BAR selling for now - $25,000 to $60,000+ ? And where would a PH get one unless supplied by some Gov’t ? Also, I think they weigh around 20lbs.+ = alot to carry around.. One of the greatest “carry” weapons of war ever designed and used in combat from 1915 to 1970s? Hard to find one now
 
HankBuck said:
@steve white you pose a fair question and they would certainly Stop-a-Charge.
I’m thinking Cost, availability, and trust would be a factor: How much is a BAR selling for now - $25,000 to $60,000+ ? And where would a PH get one unless supplied by some Gov’t ? Also, I think they weigh around 20lbs.+ = alot to carry around.. One of the greatest “carry” weapons of war ever designed and used in combat from 1915 to 1970s? Hard to find one now
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I’m thinking @steve white is talking of the sporting BAR, I think they came in several calibers. We had a friend that hunted with one and it was a fine rifle, his was in 30-06 but I think they came in 300 win mag as well and were fed with a 5 round box magazine and for a semi automatic we’re pretty darn accurate.
 

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Of course I could be wrong and he’s talking about the military version.
 
steve white said:
I have a serious question: Given that Game Dept. Scouts carry semi/full auto rifles for protection, why cannot African PHs carry at least semi auto rifles like the Browning BAR converted to 458 Win Mag? They are not hunters, they are backup too. That would give a lot more margin in a sticky situation.
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The M1918A2 weighed almost 25lbs with a full mag of 30-06 ammo. Can't imagine what a .458 version might weigh. Though used extensively, it was actually obsolete by WWII.

The scout is there to deal with poachers, problem civilians, and the like. He is armed accordingly. He is not there to help bring down a game animal.
 
Hunt anything said:
I’m thinking @steve white is talking of the sporting BAR, I think they came in several calibers. We had a friend that hunted with one and it was a fine rifle, his was in 30-06 but I think they came in 300 win mag as well and were fed with a 5 round box magazine and for a semi automatic we’re pretty darn accurate.
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@Hunt anything - OK did not think about that, in that case - can’t see any advantage of “Hunting BAR” in Only Semi Auto vs. any other semi auto .30-06 ?
Now, a “Real” BAR (.30-06, full auto, w/20 rd clip) is a force to be reckoned with !!
 
I'm pretty sure is talking about something like this:

TTundra

Thread 'For Sale: 458 Win Mag Browning BAR Made by Atkinson'

This one I did not want to let go, but as I mentioned here before, a Blaser R8 and some goodies is heading my way.

An Atkinson Gun Company Browning BAR built to 458 Winchester Magnum. As I can find it, less than a dozen were made. Rifle is an absolute pleasure to shoot, and I know that may sound ludicrous. Touching off 4 (3+1) 458 win mag cartridges in less than 2 seconds is simply indescribable.

Now on to the rifle. It has some handling marks and scuffs. I tried to get light right over it for photos so you can see some marks on the stock and forend. One small scrape on the...
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They come from the factory in .338 Win Mag
 
Red Leg said:
The M1918A2 weighed almost 25lbs with a full mag of 30-06 ammo. Can't imagine what a .458 version might weigh. Though used extensively, it was actually obsolete by WWII.

The scout is there to deal with poachers, problem civilians, and the like. He is armed accordingly. He is not there to help bring down a game animal.
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I meant the Browning semi auto rifle as sold to sportsmen--I thought it was called the BAR. Weighs about 8 lbs.
 
steve white said:
I meant the Browning semi auto rifle as sold to sportsmen--I thought it was called the BAR. Weighs about 8 lbs.
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Yes they are called BAR’s. I’ve owned 3 of them over the years. The standard ‘06 case family worked fine, accurate enough, the 300 magnum I owned was a constant jammer that went back to Browning twice. A neighbor had one in .338 magnum and carried it in the big bear woods with no issue. I’d think a .458 that functioned reliably would be fine. In my experience they don’t like to be dirty/sandy so maybe not the best for Africa.
 
In South Africa most PH’s personally own the rifles we carry and rent to clients, i.e. not owned or supplied by the outfitter or government. We carry our own sidearms for the protection provided by the game scouts in other countries.
 
Just adding on to the BAR convo.... FYI

Semi Auto 9.3x62. Winchester makes their corporate-cousin rifle of the Browning BAR, called the SXR2. Saw them last year all over GunBroker for about $1000 as a distributor exclusive, but am finding none now.

I considered one, but the spare magazines were impossible to source.
 
steve white said:
I have a serious question: Given that Game Dept. Scouts carry semi/full auto rifles for protection, why cannot African PHs carry at least semi auto rifles like the Browning BAR converted to 458 Win Mag? They are not hunters, they are backup too. That would give a lot more margin in a sticky situation.
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Have you ever carried on of those guns? Ugh! Worst balanced gun of any sort. I borrowed my brother's 300 WM a couple of times stalking deer. Carried in my hands that thing pulled on my upper back and shoulder something awful. 458 would be much worse. I really doubt many or any PHs would choose one even if they were legal.
 
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HankBuck said:
@steve white you pose a fair question and they would certainly Stop-a-Charge.
I’m thinking Cost, availability, and trust would be a factor: How much is a BAR selling for now - $25,000 to $60,000+ ? And where would a PH get one unless supplied by some Gov’t ? Also, I think they weigh around 20lbs.+ = alot to carry around.. One of the greatest “carry” weapons of war ever designed and used in combat from 1915 to 1970s? Hard to find one now
Click to expand...
I think he's talking about the commercial semi auto sporting BAR not the extinct military full auto BAR rifle.

Edit: I see that's been clarified already.
 
gbflyer said:
Yes they are called BAR’s. I’ve owned 3 of them over the years. The standard ‘06 case family worked fine, accurate enough, the 300 magnum I owned was a constant jammer that went back to Browning twice. A neighbor had one in .338 magnum and carried it in the big bear woods with no issue. I’d think a .458 that functioned reliably would be fine.
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Years ago when it was legal for anyone to own a semi-auto Australia the Browning sporting BAR was popular amongst those that hunted Sambar deer in the tick bush. Quite a few were rebarreled into 458WM and they functioned reliably. Those that owned them swore by them.
 
dhughes66 said:
I have read where several of the East African countries issued 404 Jeffrey rifles to their game department people to deal with problem animals back in the day. I am curious what game departments issue now besides the AK-47 or left over Enfield 303s? Winchester is the only company left that I am aware of that makes a dangerous game caliber rifle in a "budget" price point since CZ doesn't make the 550 anymore.
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The old game dept rifles i saw were P14 action 404s. Apparently alot of WW2 excess p14 action were converted to game dept guns.

Nowadays they use old, poorly maintained 375s and 458s of various makes, mostly old Bruno zkk. The state of them is beyond sad. Zero maintenance because gun oil is an expense not catered for.

Anything of value was traded and sold off to collectors long time ago.

Ration meat gets shot with AKs and problem animals get shot with old crap 375s or 458s
 
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