How far is too far?

[Kevin Peacocke]

One of our hunting group has bought a 300 WM to take long shots. He is an excellent shot, but is it 'right' to take a long shot at an animal when you could have got closer? Is there a sensible upper limit that hunters should adhere to? Do, or even should powerful optics excuse fieldcraft?

 

[JimP]

How long of a shot does he consider a long shot?

I know hunters from the eastern seaboard here in the US that consider a 200 yard shot to be a long shot, but when they get out here to Colorado on a elk or mule deer hunt they find that they are going to have to double that distance if they want to take the animal that they see across the canyon.

As for getting closer to a animal, it might be possible and then again it might not. I was muzzle loader hunting in the state of Utah for mule deer one year when my partner could sit and watch the bucks walking under me. They were less than 50 yards away but there was no way that I was going to be able to see them. But where he was sitting at 300 yards he could see the whole animal. So did getting closer help or hinder me? Granted I wouldn't of taken a 300 yard shot with a muzzle loader but what if I would of had a rifle that was capable of it?

Different hunting conditions require different hunting ranges. Getting close at times does not work where a longer shot is better.

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[spike.t]

Bit relative to the bush /terrain you hunting in....and areas in zim I have been are similar to here so not really going to be much more than 200 yards tops anyway..and the 300 win mag is great calibre...probably one of the youngest I own....and it works on things it's not supposed to...shall we say...

 

[375Fox]

I think a person shoot limit themselves to a range they can put in an immediate follow up shot on a running animal, for me I feel that is about 350 yards max. I don’t like how long range shooting (500+ yards) and hunting is being mixed because they can’t put in a quick second shot on a wounded animal at extreme distance.

 

[mdwest]

I think the answer is "it depends"...

there are numerous skill sets that a hunter needs to be good at his craft.. stalking is one of them.. but so is shooting.. I think everything has a natural balance point.. and much of where that balance is found is going to be driven by skills and by equipment..

To @JimP 's point.. a long shot on my deer lease would be 200 yards.. a distance of 75-150 is really about what I would expect for most shots to be taken.. the terrain just isnt going to allow for much more than that..

But the place I go to in Southern Colorado.. you'd be lucky to get within 200 yards of a pronghorn.. youre realistically looking at 300 yards minimum (if you are exceptional at staking).. and could be looking at 400-500 yards.. There are no trees.. there are no terrain features to hide behind.. etc.. its wide open flat grass fields that extend for miles..

Then I look at the Bos En Dal property in South Africa.. there are places where you could easily take a shot thats several hundred yards long.. but those same parts of the property offer wooded areas that could be used to close the distance if that what you prefer (we could have easily taken a 300+ yard shot on my hartebeest last year for example... but we chose to use the woodline to close the gap to something closer to the 100 yard range).. other parts of the property are so dense, it doesnt matter what rifle or optic you have with you, youre not going to get a shot more than 50-75 meters.. and then there are also parts of the property where shots 250-400 yards are really your only option (there is a field where we made an attempt at an impala, where from the center of the field to the woodline is about 225 yards.. if the impala are on the far side of the field youre looking at a 350+ yard shot..

It just depends on what your skill sets look like, whether or not the equipment youre carrying is capable of handling the requirement (a 300 WM would be great for that 500 yard shot on the pronghorn I described.. but a 308 might be pushing things to the limits).. and whether or not at the moment you are prepared to squeeze the trigger you can justify in your mind that you and your equipment are fully capable of making the shot, and that the shot is ethical..

 

[gillettehunter]

So Kevin, you like to stir the pot do you? As you well know, this is a loaded question. The true answer is it depends. So many things to consider. My first choice is to get closer to a degree. I'd lot rather have time to set up and shoot at 300 yds than at moving animal shot at 200. I'll get more humane precise kills that way. I guess the best way to say this is that each hunter has to know his limits. If you don't practice that 300 yd shot and know that you have the precision to take i,t you shouldn't. If you can get to 200 yds and not spook them then do it assuming you can see them to shoot when you get to 200 yds.
Last year I killed a deer and 2 pronghorn. The deer was all of 20 yds away. My Pronghorn buck was 225 or so yds away. The doe was 325 and was getting ready to leave the area. All were one shot kills. 2 were bang flops. I practice out to 700 yds. I don't practice enough to shoot that kind of distance on animals, but it makes a 350 yd shot seem easy. My equipment is also up to the task.
Someone who wants to hunt long range has to practice enough to be proficient and the environment has to be correct for it. The equipment has to be up to it also. Just because your buddy bought a .300 WM doesn't mean he will have the accuracy to cleanly kill an animal at 500 yds.. If that rifle shoots a 2 inch group at 100 yds it will be at least 10 inches at 500. Clean miss on an Impala. If he reloads and get that rifle down to 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds then that should equate to 2 1/2 inches at 500 yds. Then you have to go out and learn field positions that you can use to shoot precisely. Prone is by far and away the best with a bipod and some sort of rear rest.
Probably 12 yrs ago I killed an antelope at around 200 yds. It never left its bed. Not too remarkable except for the wind. Perhaps 40 mph from my 3 O'clock. I aimed 10 inches upwind to make that shot with a .270 WSM. That was plenty far given the conditions. Wind varies so much over distance and makes a real difference in how far is reasonable to shoot.
A friend of mine manages a ranch in MT. They often have a cow elk hunt to take extra animals out of the herd. He takes the hunters out to get their elk. Most often they wind up using his rifle. Its a sub 1/2 MOA rifle in a .300 WM. He used a 215 grain bullet at about 3000 fps. He shoots usually 2 times a week and knows what it will do. The bulk of the elk taken are at 500-700 yds. He dials the scope for the environment and talks the shooter through the shot. They often dry fire several times to make sure they are not jerking the trigger. A couple of yrs ago they killed around 70 elk on that ranch. He knows how to do it and they don't lose elk. You can't just buy the equipment and think you can go kill an animal at 600 yds. Practice is essential. As well as a good rangefinder......
Bruce

 

[spike.t]

I think a person shoot limit themselves to a range they can put in an immediate follow up shot on a running animal, for me I feel that is about 350 yards max. I don’t like how long range shooting (500+ yards) and hunting is being mixed because they can’t put in a quick second shot on a wounded animal at extreme distance.

Just interested in what size animals you can feel safe hitting running at 350 yards?...that's to me pretty amazing....

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I guess what I am hearing is that a long shot, where you have no chance to get any closer still has two tick-offs, 1. Do you have the kit to do it, being rifle, bullet and scope, and 2. Are you up to it yourself? Three ticks, fair enough, but taking a long shot to test your limits I think should be restricted to paper.

 

[BeeMaa]

The time between the hammer falling and the bullet arriving is my issue with distance hunting.
At 300 yards there is still enough time for the animal to move as the bullet travels.
Making an ethical shot at the time the trigger is pulled, an unethical one.

So 300 yards is my outer limit for (standing still) game.
Reality is I enjoy trying to get as close as I possibly can.
Playing the wind, being sneaky & quiet...that's hunting to me.
Another reality is I don't have the skills to ethically take game beyond 300 yards.

 

[375Fox]

Just interested in what size animals you can feel safe hitting running at 350 yards?...that's to me pretty amazing....

I wouldn’t feel safe, but think I have a fair chance of connecting somewhere. I know I have a very slim chance beyond that range. I do consider myself a better shot at running animals than average. The animals I can think of I have connected on a moving second follow up shot at greater than 300 yards would be a reedbuck and an eland. I also made a follow up shot during a Monteria on a red stag at around 250 yards. I have also missed a few.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The time between the hammer falling and the bullet arriving is my issue with distance hunting.
At 300 yards there is still enough time for the animal to move as the bullet travels.
Making an ethical shot at the time the trigger is pulled, an unethical one.

So 300 yards is my outer limit for (standing still) game.
Reality is I enjoy trying to get as close as I possibly can.
Playing the wind, being sneaky & quiet...that's hunting to me.
Another reality is I don't have the skills to ethically take game beyond 300 yards.

That pretty much sums me up too. I think I am a sub 200 yard shot, so it is down to fieldcraft

 

[JimP]

Just interested in what size animals you can feel safe hitting running at 350 yards?...that's to me pretty amazing....

375Fox replied but I'll put in a little more.

At 350 yards for us hunters that hunt in the Rocky Mountain states here in the US is just getting warmed up. Mule deer, elk, pronghorn are routinely shot at that range and further. I used to go to Wyoming where we would shoot parrie dogs out to 400 yards for us beginners and more for the more experienced shooters.

Prairie dog - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It warms us up for African hunts where the distances are usually closer and the animals are a lot bigger.

 

[samu]

Well this started to spiral towards boringly sensible consensus so let's widen the perspective.
As a pretext I say long shots at game are generally frowned upon up here. Some are willing to accept 300yd shots at birds and on the same sentence disapprove shooting a moose past 200m because that one guy once tried and boy did we look for that one all night and day until men died of hunger and cold claimed the rest. Anyways, discussion is largely hindered by the loud oldtimers who refuse to accept any technological advancement since times before they weren't even born.
So, last fall I was browsing facebook and there was someone posting a picture and a story how they shot a moose at 400m with 338 Lapua magnum, don't remember the bullet but it had apparently performed excellently.
In about 15 minutes the person was condemned as disgrace of hunting community and pretty sure someone had managed to threaten their life and family as well. Mind this was a hunting group, so not even the vegans on the roll. Buried deep in the comments was the explanation that the moose was assumed to be wounded from another hunter shooting it earlier and missing completely, so he decided to take the shot he knew he could do when the opportunity presented itself.
Something that really baffles me is why did the hunter even feel the need to justify their actions. The shot was clean and hit spot on on the lungs so clearly it was within his comfort zone. The cartridge in question most definitely could be considered up to task and there was nothing suggesting adverse conditions or factors that would make the shot reckless.
Yet somehow this same group of people decided to ignore the hunter who missed completely, apparently from acceptable distance.
What I take out of this is what is the obsession with distance? I can shoot 8" plate at 500m quite confidently, I would most definitely not try the same shot at game with my current shooting skills but I have no problem seeing how someone could do that with acceptable certainty. I have missed much closer, off hand moving target, list of excuses is long and luckily I've managed to move past that and practice again for coming season more than ever. There is a limit after which the game has time to pack up the camp, move off and let the dust settle before the bullet gets there but even that doesn't have clear cut limit.
I'd like to end with notion that I find almost nothing as exhilarating as standing within 10 meters of a moose. I've done that twice, once without a suitable tag and once without my rifle. I certainly do prefer getting close to the game but I'm not going to go juddging other ways to hunt. Well maybe the 1000yd elk shot clips on youtube where the spotter needs to walk in the shooter before they get a clear gut hit and high five and woohoo like baboons on party island while the elk keels over and dies, not from the bullet but out of shame. Probably.

 

[BRICKBURN]

................ taking a long shot to test your limits I think should be restricted to paper.

Exactly.

I can drop shots into a 4 inch square at 750 yards with a variety of hunting rifles/calibers consistently and I practice it often.

I was taught to see how close you can get to an animal and then take the shot.
The closer the better.


It is much more interesting and exciting. Hence, the reason I like Bow hunting so much.

The closest I have gotten to a sleeping wild animal is three yards without being detected. I've done it twice in my life. An Aardwolf in Botswana and a Mule Deer here at home.
You never forget those hunts. A speck in the spotting scope?! Whatever.

 

[Royal27]

Exactly.

I can drop shots into a 4 inch square at 750 yards with a variety of hunting rifles/calibers consistently and I practice it often.

I was taught to see how close you can get to an animal and then take the shot.
The closer the better.


It is much more interesting and exciting. Hence, the reason I like Bow hunting so much.

The closest I have gotten to a sleeping wild animal is three yards without being detected. I've done it twice in my life. An Aardwolf in Botswana and a Mule Deer here at home.
You never forget those hunts. A speck in the spotting scope?! Whatever.

I hope someone tells you to prove it so you have an excuse to post that Aardwolf picture here.

 

[Philip Glass]

With my equipment and training I would say I can shoot to 500 yards and have done so. I am leaving significant wind out of the equation here. Do I want to shoot that far at an animal? No. There are times when it is necessary in mountain hunting not so much Africa. There are those who go hunting wanting and seeking a very long shot. I am not in that camp. I want to hunt and that means stalking an animal as close as I am able. I would say for most people and most situations 350 yards is nearing the hunting limit for various reasons.

 

[JLF]

Long distance shots are for ineffective hunters and are to alleviate that ineffectiveness.

 

[chashardy]

As I have said before on similar posts, very often, the possibility of wounding and losing game goes up in direct proportion to the distance of the shot. While I am impressed with the marksmanship of a rifle shooter who has the equipment and experience to hit a metal disc at 800 or more yards, I'm more impressed with the hunter that can spot and stalk his game to less than 200 yards--or in the case of dangerous game, less than 100 yards, and make an ethical, accurate shot to dispatch the animal with minimal misery. At more than 350 yards it starts to become sniping, rather than hunting.

 

[WAB]

Great question Kevin! Personally, I think you should work as close to the animal as terrain and conditions allow. However, the result is likely a very different answer for a pronghorn in Wyoming vs a Cape Buff in Zim!