375 H&H Heavy Bullets vs 416

[TOBY458]

Both lion and lioness and you’re correct I cannot bring them to the US. For the price and since I have no space nor desire to have them mounted, pictures and the experience I believe will be plenty. That’s assuming I don’t have a heart attack from it!

Hearing Gizmo’s experience with his has me excited!

Toby, at my age having a new experience is vastly more interesting than having “stuff” I’ll just soon have to get rid of. I want to save as much money as I can to take my new hunting partner (granddaughter) on as many trips as possible before my body gives out. JMO

Understood! I wonder if anyone could make a replica lion skull from the actual measurements of your lion?
I wish I was going with you! Lion is definitely on my bucket list.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Toby, it would be great to have someone there with me! After the lion, I am going to the Limpopo tent camp for the last few days.
I think you should contact Pieter and duplicate my hunt at the same time, or maybe share the cost and take one of my lions if he will do that.

 

[TOBY458]

Toby, it would be great to have someone there with me! After the lion, I am going to the Limpopo tent camp for the last few days.
I think you should contact Pieter and duplicate my hunt at the same time, or maybe share the cost and take one of my lions if he will do that.

SOUNDS TEMPTING! Not sure I can swing the funds so soon after my last hunt, but I'll do some research!

 

[TOBY458]

Toby, it would be great to have someone there with me! After the lion, I am going to the Limpopo tent camp for the last few days.
I think you should contact Pieter and duplicate my hunt at the same time, or maybe share the cost and take one of my lions if he will do that.

What are the dates?

 

[Ridgewalker]

What are the dates?

Arriving Joberg July 29. Flying out of Joberg August 9. Hunting 7/30-8/8 2019.

 

[2L8]

The answer?

A .404 with 450 Grain Bullets of course.

 

[Moosemind]

Understood! I wonder if anyone could make a replica lion skull from the actual measurements of your lion?
I wish I was going with you! Lion is definitely on my bucket list.

What a chair!

 

[Von S.]

What a chair!View attachment 258513

Yes it is Conan! Except now you can't import it into the USA.

I think hat it's a damned disgrace that our good friend "Ridgewalker," is gonna go over there, get into mortal combat with one of the most dangerous animals on the planet and when he proves himself victorious has to leave his trophy that will be stuffed and eventually be sold to someone in Europe for big bucks which our friend won't share in.

Disgraceful .

 

[Dr Ray]

You mean you actually need an excuse for more rifles????

Ha ha
Great line!!

 

[TOBY458]

I'm about 75% sure about doing the lioness hunt now. Just wish the market would go back up a bit before I pull the money out!
And Now I have a new 416 Ruger to cloud the waters a bit. So.....now the choice is Kimber Talkeetna 375 H&H, Sako Kodiak 375 H&H, Winchester 70 416 Rem Mag, and Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger. But, I'm sure I'll go with a 375 at the end of the day. But....that Ruger 416 feels mighty snappy too....

 

[Shootist43]

TOBY, PLEASE quit fooling around with these off-beat calibers and buy yourself a good 404 Jeffery and quit wondering about which rifle to take!!

 

[Ray B]

But, at the end of the day....

If you START the day with the right rifle, the end of the day will take care of itself.

 

[steve white]

If the 375 can be upgraded with 350 gr bullets, the 416 can be improved, too, upping its effectiveness. If you want to choose one for the trip, why not just go with the bigger one?

 

[perttime]

... So.....now the choice is Kimber Talkeetna 375 H&H, Sako Kodiak 375 H&H, Winchester 70 416 Rem Mag, and Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger. But, I'm sure I'll go with a 375 at the end of the day. But....that Ruger 416 feels mighty snappy too....

Which one do you shoot best under pressure?

 

[Dr Ray]

If the 375 can be upgraded with 350 gr bullets, the 416 can be improved, too, upping its effectiveness. If you want to choose one for the trip, why not just go with the bigger one?

Geoff Mcdonald of Woodleigh Bullets said that the 300 grain Woodleighs would be fine and would penetrate nicely on buff.
This was in relation to asking about using the 350s. I was talking about hydros here to be clear.

 

[Luvthunt]

Well my solution for this was : to load 260 and 300 gr Noslers for PG and cats in the 375 and 430 gr NFs in the 416 RM . Had a few 300 gr solids along for the 375 but otherwise it was for PG. by the way also had a few 350 gr along for the 416 just in case.
Never felt, that with those bullet combos that one was encroaching on the other.
And I believe in the two rifle thinking , plus I also believe that the greatest impact is where you hit them not what you hit them with, altho that plays a part.

 

[CTDolan]

Ethical behavior is a category in the Behavior of Humans Continuum. There are two basic headings: Ethical & its mate Unethical, and Lawful & Unlawful. At one end there is Ethical at the opposite end is Unlawful. In between activities can be a mix, but generally a behavior that starts out as ethical and lawful can progress away from ethical into unethical, then when enough people see it as unethical they band together and process the activity into unlawful. the process can also go in reverse where activities that were once Unlawful have gained public acceptance and while not yet Ethical have at least become Lawful. This progression is not limited to the hunting community but to people in general. It is not only the process of banning hunting in certain countries or it's cousin banning importation of certain animal parts (the idea being to stop the hunting of those animals), it also is at work in such activities as smoking tobacco (moving from ethical to unlawful) and marijuana (unlawful to lawful).

Human interaction with behavior devolves into blame for various results. In the early days of the American frontier a lot of people moved from the East to the West. These people were seeking to find treasure or start a ranch or farm. None of these activities produced any food in the short run- There was an abundant supply of game animals from deer and elk to buffalo. These animals were a significant part of the diet of the indigenous people. An employment opportunity became apparent, the Market Hunter. He provided food for the new population and assisted the government in the process of eliminating those that may contest the taking of land previously enjoyed by others. So to one sector of the population the market hunter was a hero to another he was evil. as it turned out those that saw him as a hero prevailed. About the time that the wild game populations were reduced to non-productive levels the production from farms and ranches increased to marketable levels to supply the food needs not only of those local but also a surplus for export. So the market hunter as a profession became extinct. Then people began to seek welfare of the various animals previously seen only as a food source and the Conservation Movement started. various agencies and non-government organizations were started for the benefit of the animals. Needing someone to blame for the previous decline in animals, they found the Market Hunter as the primary suspect. So the same behavior, hunting animals for food, went from being highly favorable to unethical to highly regulated to unlawful in some areas; the market hunter went from hero to villain.

So when viewing some activity and claiming it to be unethical, keep in mind that the subjective value of a behavior is fluid and what might be seen as ethical/unethical today may be viewed entirely opposite next year.

Well stated.

I believe that, with regard to morality, there is an absolute. Ethics? By definition, this involves human interpretation and is therefore subject to prejudice.

 

[CTDolan]

Regarding Sullivan, when I was young, drunk on Capstick and far less mature, I thought his videos were entertaining. Now, they simply disgust me.

 

[TOBY458]

TOBY, PLEASE quit fooling around with these off-beat calibers and buy yourself a good 404 Jeffery and quit wondering about which rifle to take!!

404 Jeffery? Never heard of her. Lol!

 

[TOBY458]

Well my solution for this was : to load 260 and 300 gr Noslers for PG and cats in the 375 and 430 gr NFs in the 416 RM . Had a few 300 gr solids along for the 375 but otherwise it was for PG. by the way also had a few 350 gr along for the 416 just in case.
Never felt, that with those bullet combos that one was encroaching on the other.
And I believe in the two rifle thinking , plus I also believe that the greatest impact is where you hit them not what you hit them with, altho that plays a part.

Yes. Pretty much what I did last year. A 375 H&H with 300 grain A Frames for plains game. And 416 RM with 400 grain A Frames as well for Buffalo. All worked out very well. But this year, with Buffalo not in mix, my largest animal (larger than buffalo) will be an Eland to go along with the lioness. Among other PG such as Water Buck, Oryx and Wildebeest. I feel the 375 is almost a no brainer on this one. Especially since the 416 Ruger is new to me, and the Sako 85 Kodiak has made it's mark in Australia, and now I think it's time to take it to Africa.