Your opinion on selecting a .500 NE 3” or .470 NE?

[VertigoBE]

I have diamond front sights on some of my rifles . They were very common on rifles from India both doubles and magazine . They are fantastic when shooting in low light . Here is one on a 500NE of mine .

I've been wondering, with today's lab grown diamonds, if a 10-15mm long, 2mm diameter single-crystal diamond tube, would not be the summum of combining "fibre optic frontsight light gathering technology" with more classy materials like diamond.

I had Grok look into it, and it said the following:

Yes, a straight tube made of pure single-crystal diamond can act as an extremely efficient light pipe or light concentrator, very similar to (and in most ways vastly superior to) a classic fiber-optic sight used on firearms or bow sights.
Here’s why and how it works in practice, based on the real physics of diamond:

1. Total Internal Reflection (TIR) in diamond​

Light that enters the sidewall of the tube at a sufficiently shallow angle will undergo total internal reflection because diamond has an exceptionally low refractive index for a transparent material — but wait, no: diamond has a very high refractive index n ≈ 2.417 at 589 nm.
The critical angle for TIR at a diamond–air interface is:
θ_c = arcsin(n_air / n_diamond) ≈ arcsin(1 / 2.417) ≈ 24.4°
This is an extremely small critical angle. That means almost any ray that enters the sidewall and is heading even slightly along the length of the tube will be trapped by TIR and will bounce down the tube with essentially zero loss per reflection (diamond is virtually non-absorbing from ~225 nm out to >10 µm).

2. Light collection and concentration​

If the outside of the tube is polished and clean (or even slightly roughened in a controlled way), ambient light hitting the lateral surface over the entire length enters the diamond. Every time a ray meets the inner wall at >24.4° to the normal, it is totally reflected and continues down the tube.
At the exit end you therefore get:

• A very bright spot or ring of light
• Light coming from a huge solid angle (essentially the whole environment around the tube)
• Geometric concentration ratio roughly equal to (length / diameter) in the simple case, and potentially much higher because of the very low critical angle

Real-world numbers: A 50 mm long, 3 mm diameter diamond rod can easily concentrate ambient daylight at the exit face to >50–100× the brightness of the surrounding illumination — enough to be clearly visible even in bright sunlight, exactly like the best tritium + fiber-optic sights, but without needing tritium.

3. Comparison to plastic fiber-optic sights​

Property	Acrylic/plastic fiber	Diamond tube/rod
Refractive index	~1.49	2.417
Critical angle	~42°	~24.4°
Acceptance angle	Moderate	Extremely high
Transmission loss (visible)	0.2–0.5 dB/m	<0.001 dB/m (negligible)
Scratch/abrasion resistance	Poor	Highest of any material
UV and thermal stability	Degrades	Essentially forever
Brightness in practice	Good	Blindingly bright

 

[Monski]

I did get a longer pad put on it but it was mostly my (lack of) technique at first.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Everyone,

If you were faced with the decision of selecting only either a .470 NE or a .500 NE 3” what criteria would you base your selection on?

Thanks in advance.

Someone posted this .. I found it interesting in itself. 470 & Africa is synonymous, 500.

U

Thread 'The .500 Nitro Express 3”'

Dec 29, 2017

By Philip Massaro

To me, dangerous game represents some of the most exciting hunting on the planet. It requires long travels, usually to a very remote part of our world, where the faces, customs and languages are all foreign to me. And, most of the time, it requires a firearm that is different than your typical deer rifle. When you measure the weight of your quarry in tons, when it possesses the ability to bite you in half, fatally gore you with its horns or tusks, or simply squash you into the red African dust like a withered grape, I feel comfortable knowing I have...

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• Replies: 5
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[SStomcat]

Carry a .470 and hire a gun bearer..switch rifles when closing in on the quarry..

In that case, a 700 NE will be even sweeter

 

[SWS1]

A 600/577 Rewa and a 600NE pair of sidelocks were made for a friend in Australia . A very experienced double rifle and dangerous game hunter . He raves over the Rewa compared to his numerous 600s and 577s .

Would that be the ones that KDT built? If so they look gorgeous!

 

[PCC600]

Would that be the ones that KDT built? If so they look gorgeous!

Yes that’s them.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

I appreciate everyone’s input taking time to respond. Your comments are helpful. I am bolt action oriented but definitely want a double and was thinking .500 NE. My heavy rifle is a beloved .500 Jeff that I handload moderate loads; 600 gr Woodleigh at 2200 fps. A good deal on a .470 NE is available and after reading your insight between a .500 NE and .470 NE will close on the .470 and feel very lucky to have the great cartridge.

Thanks again and good hunting.

 

[grand veneur]

The recoil of the rifle on the picture below is very tolerable, but due to his weight the handling is not easy and it is also not easy to reload it very quickly. It weighs about the same as my other double rifle caliber 600 Nitro Express, which is with a 26" barrel even a bit lighter, making it easier to handle. However, the recoil is somewhat more stronger, especially with a 110g Cordite-like load. One must carefully consider whether to acquire such rifles for seasonal practical use. They are above all collector's items that represent something very traditional in a big bore battery in your gun safe. Anyone who does not dream of something they are not and that no longer exists anyway, is much better served in practice, under today's hunting conditions in Africa, with completely different rifles.

Webley & Scott / PHV-1 action / 577 Nitro Express / 16 lbs.

 

[grand veneur]

We all are primarily clients and not professional hunters of the past who walked through the bush with a big bore double rifle on the shoulder and who shot game under completely different conditions than we do, not always paying attention to hunting ethics. A double rifle like this makes more sense if you want to own a beautiful traditional double rifle that you can also use in the field from time to time.

Holland& Holland model Dominion .500/.465NE - eGun

 

[PCC600]

The recoil of the rifle on the picture below is very tolerable, but due to his weight the handling is not easy and it is also not easy to reload it very quickly. It weighs about the same as my other double rifle caliber 600 Nitro Express, which is with a 26" barrel even a bit lighter, making it easier to handle. However, the recoil is somewhat more stronger, especially with a 110g Cordite-like load. One must carefully consider whether to acquire such rifles for seasonal practical use. They are above all collector's items that represent something very traditional in a big bore battery in your gun safe. Anyone who does not dream of something they are not and that no longer exists anyway, is much better served in practice, under today's hunting conditions in Africa, with completely different rifles.

Webley & Scott / PHV-1 action / 577 Nitro Express / 16 lbs.
View attachment 728969

View attachment 728970

What a wonderful example !

 

[Pondoro]

We all are primarily clients and not professional hunters of the past who walked through the bush with a big bore double rifle on the shoulder and who shot game under completely different conditions than we do, not always paying attention to hunting ethics. A double rifle like this makes more sense if you want to own a beautiful traditional double rifle that you can also use in the field from time to time.

Holland& Holland model Dominion .500/.465NE - eGun

That said..elephant are normally shot at a very short distance..and I do not entirely trust any PH to save my bacon if things go south.. In dense bush I find a .600 to be a life insurance if an attack occur..

 

[grand veneur]

That said..elephant are normally shot at a very short distance..and I do not entirely trust any PH to save my bacon if things go south.. In dense bush I find a .600 to be a life insurance if an attack occur..

As a client, you don't have to defend yourself against attacking elephants that often. Aside from that, for this purpose, there are plenty of rifles that are much easier to handle than a DR caliber 600 Nitro Express and are just as efficient.

 

[grand veneur]

A DR caliber 600 Nitro Express is a highly interesting and desirable item for a collection, but in today's practical African hunting world, it is a completely different story. At the time this cartridge was designed, it hardly competed with the cartridge 577 Nitro Express, which had already proven itself. No one saw a need for such a cartridge back then. All of this took place when larger bore bolt action rifles were just becoming commonplace. The 416 Rigby cartridge in a bolt action rifle quickly became a very good alternative to the old, clunky double rifles that were previously in use. There is no need to argue about the efficiency of the cartridge 416 Rigby.

 

[Pondoro]

A .416 Rigby bolt rifle is an option..but a large bore double rifle will still give you a quicker follow up shot with a more powerful cartridge..

John Taylor was ridiculed for saying that a headshot at short range at elephant from a .577 or .600 would bring down the animal..dead or unconsious.. This happened to a friend of mine in Zim..he tried a brainshot with a .577, brought the animal down..only to see it wake up some minutes after and he had to shoot it again. A shot from a boltrifle with a lesser calibre, perhaps with the exception of .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs, would not give such effect..

 

[bimbo]

Why don’t you like cases without a shoulder ?

I don t know...maybe because its look I feel a big handgun round.

 

[SStomcat]

We all are primarily clients and not professional hunters of the past who walked through the bush with a big bore double rifle on the shoulder and who shot game under completely different conditions than we do, not always paying attention to hunting ethics. A double rifle like this makes more sense if you want to own a beautiful traditional double rifle that you can also use in the field from time to time.

Holland& Holland model Dominion .500/.465NE - eGun

Man you have some good deals across the pond pretty often

 

[SStomcat]

A .416 Rigby bolt rifle is an option..but a large bore double rifle will still give you a quicker follow up shot with a more powerful cartridge..

John Taylor was ridiculed for saying that a headshot at short range at elephant from a .577 or .600 would bring down the animal..dead or unconsious.. This happened to a friend of mine in Zim..he tried a brainshot with a .577, brought the animal down..only to see it wake up some minutes after and he had to shoot it again. A shot from a boltrifle with a lesser calibre, perhaps with the exception of .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs, would not give such effect..

True, bigger caliber more energy resulting in more trauma on impact. However a bigger gun with more weight will be less handy in terms of reloading and pointing, should you need a quick third shot if still on your feet alive .

 

[SStomcat]

The recoil of the rifle on the picture below is very tolerable, but due to his weight the handling is not easy and it is also not easy to reload it very quickly. It weighs about the same as my other double rifle caliber 600 Nitro Express, which is with a 26" barrel even a bit lighter, making it easier to handle. However, the recoil is somewhat more stronger, especially with a 110g Cordite-like load. One must carefully consider whether to acquire such rifles for seasonal practical use. They are above all collector's items that represent something very traditional in a big bore battery in your gun safe. Anyone who does not dream of something they are not and that no longer exists anyway, is much better served in practice, under today's hunting conditions in Africa, with completely different rifles.

Webley & Scott / PHV-1 action / 577 Nitro Express / 16 lbs.
View attachment 728969

View attachment 728970

Wondering how many big bores you have ? I’m sure multiple, should you care to share I want to know

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Wondering how many big bores you have ? I’m sure multiple, should you care to share I want to know

I know he has these, for sure:

An Auguste Francotte sidelock ejector in .600 Nitro Express

A Webley & Scott boxlock ejector in .577 Nitro Express

A .500 Jeffery built on a Magnum Mauser action

A .460 Weatherby Magnum built on a Brevex M400 action

An Auguste Schuler Model 34 in 11.2x72mm Schuler

A 10.75x68mm Mauser Type A

@grand veneur am I close enough ?

 

[AZDAVE]

Well a 500NE Merkel left and right is what started me on my road to doubles. (Tried to buy it from the owner, but he wasn't interested in selling)

Have owned a couple 470's and shot several 500's. To me if the gun fit is proper they don't have much different felt recoil. the 500 comes back a bit harder and the 470 has a bit more muzzle rise. So it is kinda a wash for me.

I was looking for a 500 but came across a 500/416 and it shot so well that I quit looking for a bigger double (For now) that said if I ever decide to go bigger it will be for a 577 that I have regulated with 650gr solids at 2150-2175fps.

As to the original question I would pick the 500 to pair with a 9.3x74 double and go hunt everything.