Safari Rifle Market-Have we reached the point of no return on cost?

[mark-hunter]

Safari rifle, which means 375 or above is becoming unicorn.
This is not normal, the conditions on the market. .
I clicked 2-5 k because it was second hand.

 

[Rare Breed]

You have some good points....honestly I'm just assuming that 90%+ of the people on here would never buy a firearm even at the 30k level. I'm more or less trying to gauge what the market will truly bare as ratio of guys actually buying guns for Africa and supply of guns on the market. As far as I can tell, the cost of high quality has gone up significantly in the last 15 years, definitely higher than the rate of inflation. I worked for the Blaser Group some years back and the Rigby "Big Games" at that point were selling for 10-12k, now they are 15-20k. I could be way off base,...but its a great discussion and i really enjoy the input form you fellas on here.

My POV is there are hunters and collectors. Within hunters there are Bolt Action and DRs. In each brand matters to some and some they don’t care as long as it works. While this may work in bolt actions my experience it absolutely does not in DRs which is a big determinant in cost. In a bolt action you can get a functional rifle for $2,000. It can easily be argued you can’t get a functional DR for under $10,000

 

[318AE]

You might want to ask the same question side by side with the highest trophy fee paid or hunt cost. Likely a similar range from a trophy kudu to a trophy LDE, mountain nyala etc.

 

[rookhawk]

I beg to differ sir, no assumptions at all....I know guys that can't afford a truck payment yet have a 10k rifle in their possession for hunting. In the African Safari Magazine Rifle section of GI there is enormous amount of safari type 37-40-Something caliber rifles,.....by far more popular than the 500's. 500's imo are an exotic and not many guys will ever be in the market for one much less ever intend to use one. That being said here is what I see on the 1st two pages of that section, all very expensive rifles:

Rigby-34
HH-3
G & H-2
Breeding-2
Prechtl-2
Jeffery-4
Full Custom Makers-8
Gibbs-1

All of these are ready to go.

Your example of Heym is exactly correct, they would be an example of a company that is "under producing" on purpose, pretty much only building to order, probably a really smart way to do it. When it comes to doubles, there are far less units in total to begin with,...and the English builders are 2-3 years behind. In my mind those guns are all going to the upper crust of what we are talking about here....similar to the 500's.....small, small, small, market. This middle market is what I find fascinating.

The reason the good stuff is scarce is that the actions that can hold the good stuff are scarce. There will always be an infinite supply of stuff many people don’t want. I rattled off a long list of things I don’t want that echo what many on this forum don’t want either.

Check how many Dakotas In desirable dangerous came calibers are for sale. (Very few) Then check how many Dakota 10s in classic stalking rifle calibers are available. (Nearly zero)

Yes, there are tons of customs for sale in 416 remington, 458 win mag, and others. Those are nearly unsaleable and always have been.

Mauser action large bores in 404J or bigger are and always have been in short supply. Especially if they are traditional builds.

 

[375Fox]

I will not pay more than $5000 for a rifle. I just cannot see the functional need. I’ll pay money for hunting not rifles I’m afraid to scratch. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a high end rifle leaning against the cheapest buffalo from a game ranch.

 

[Red Leg]

I will not pay more than $5000 for a rifle. I just cannot see the functional need. I’ll pay money for hunting not rifles I’m afraid to scratch. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a high end rifle leaning against the cheapest buffalo from a game ranch.

The key is to reach the point where hunting with a quality rifle or shotgun is more important than the scratches. I have a few fine firearms and not one is a safe queen.

 

[375Fox]

The key is to reach the point where hunting with a quality rifle or shotgun is more important than the scratches. I have a few fine firearms and not one is a safe queen.

I think if you were to gift me the nicest Rigby, Dakota, Heym, or Kreighoff I’d likely sell it and add to my next hunt. They just don’t add any value to my experience over my Sako. Going to a new country or upgrading my hunt does. If a person matches their hunt to their rifle I can’t fault them, but I really hate seeing hunters put more value on the rifle than the hunt or say they can’t afford certain hunts.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I have only ever spent over a thousand on a rifle - and it was barely over - was for a Browning/Winchester 1895.

The two I took on my first safari: 700 and 500. The second safari? The same 500 and 400.

 

[Rimbaud]

One of the grand, now old, investment strategists on Wall Street likes to say that there’s a reason why Howard Johnson’s has 28 flavors of ice cream. Find the flavor, or flavors, that you like best, and have fun. What you like, might not be what another guy likes, and so forth. To each his own.

 

[Hedge774]

The highest level of rifles are rarely used (not true of shotguns). Many of them sit in display cases. I have yet to see one in the field or even at the range. It would take a real upper level of income to take that out in the field and not care about some wear on it. That's an upper crust level of rifles as artwork. I remember Boddington taking a new Rigby 416 into the jungle for bongo. He wore a lot of finish off it but in the end said, it's an American Rigby and that's not the same thing. True enough.

I read that article when it came out, lamenting all the rust and wear. I have to tell myself that the rifle was a tool and fulfilled its purpose at the time. (Still hurt me!)

 

[BJH65]

I think if you were to gift me the nicest Rigby, Dakota, Heym, or Kreighoff I’d likely sell it and add to my next hunt. They just don’t add any value to my experience over my Sako. Going to a new country or upgrading my hunt does. If a person matches their hunt to their rifle I can’t fault them, but I really hate seeing hunters put more value on the rifle than the hunt or say they can’t afford certain hunts.

And therein lies my dilemma. I wanted a Rigby, Heym, Reimer Johannsen, vintage H&H or Wesley Richards but ultimately like you chose to stay under the 5k mark and went on an elephant & buffalo hunt instead. I could have purchased one of the aforementioned rifles and done the buffalo hunt only but no elephant.

I think if I sold some more guns I could have my cake and eat it too but now it’s all about the hunt, specifically I’d like to hunt DG in Africa annually which means I most likely will never own one of those rifles. I have what I need for a DG battery of rifles now so now all discretionary funds will go towards those hunts.

 

[Don458]

I have 2 Whitworths a .375 and .458 both approx 1200 each. If i ever get to The Dark Continent

 

[Hedge774]

I have 2 Whitworths a .375 and .458 both approx 1200 each. If i ever get to The Dark Continent

Make it happen. Trust me. Just make a plan and go.

 

[Josh P]

I enjoy having the nicest rifle I can afford at a given time. Sometimes that has meant an off the shelf used rifle in a typical caliber. Sometimes that has been a full project that requires some sweat equity to be nice. There’s always another rifle that’s nicer and more expensive, so I’m not trying to chase the “best”. I just want something that has some sort of personal value with me when I hunt.

My Husqy 9.3x62 is a good example. Newly married, a big name rifle was absolutely out of my budget, but rechambering a previously unmodified 9.3x57 has netted me a rifle that is nicer than anything new I could afford. I also didn’t get the first crusty-stocked, poorly D&T-ed job that popped up. Sometimes you have to find the middle ground and be content.

All that being said, I’m thrilled so many of the forum members can afford rifles outside of my budget AND that they share pictures and information about them here. I’ve been building a repertoire of knowledge so that when my budget changes in the future, I’ll have a much more functional knowledge about what will truly fit the bill while meeting my personal standards. That I don’t have to be distracted by flash, but will be able to buy something that also doubles as an investment against inflation etc. is something for which I am very grateful.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have 2 Whitworths a .375 and .458 both approx 1200 each. If i ever get to The Dark Continent

Just go.

 

[tarbe]

I’m happy we still have choices.

Going to pick up a Rigby tomorrow.

 

[Hedge774]

Amen to that! Congratulations as well.

 

[Green Chile]

As someone who has owned fine rifles and vintage English double rifles, if you have to choose between owning them or hunting big game and dangerous game in Africa, it becomes very simple; go hunting! They are fun and interesting to own but they are not as fun as stalking elephants and buffalo in the thick stuff...or stalking crocs along the cut banks of the lake...or sneaking around after that big kudu. They aren't worth owning if it keeps you from hunting and creating memories forever. I looked at my doubles and said I'm not going to hunt with all of these...so I sold them recently. I'm actually relieved to move them on and not have that kind of $ tied up in objects and I'm excited to plan more hunts that interest me. That's been my experience on the subject of fine, vintage guns vs hunting more often with other guns that are worth less. I bought a Blaser R8 and some barrels and I'm spending more time hunting than playing with vintage doubles and wishing I was hunting.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

One reason you’re seeing more guns of that price caliber is because their owners are aging out and not using them or their heirs have no interest in them. You’re likely to see this keep happening.

I’ve begin to fall into the same boat as @Red Leg and am considering taking a 1908 built Westley Richards Droplock to the Zambeze Delta of Mozambique after Buffalo. I used to be in the same camp as @375Fox. I’m still like him with flights. I prefer to fly economy than spend the money on a Business Class of First Class Seat. To each their own, as long as at the end of the day you’re hunting.

 

[Rare Breed]

While I don’t have a best I do have two Rigbys as my main rifles, HS 275 and a DR 450 NE. Owning them and hunting with them give me great satisfaction. I never see owning them means missing out on a hunt of my choice. To me they are just two separate things. Said another way the gun and brand type are part of my enjoyment of any hunt. I have been blessed to hunt the big 5 and any PG of my choosing except for ones I just don’t care about. Scratches never bother me on my nice guns given they are memories to me. I guess I am saying I am like @Red Leg