English doubles will soon……..

It is tough not being able to use lead for shotguns but for rifles it's not that bad. With all the mono metal bullet choices out there little will change when it comes to rifles. I'm TSX all the way.
Side note: stopping lead ammo bans were one of our priorities when we were in DC lobbying with SCI back in May. We are winning on most of what we lobbied for!
 
The point of my post is that double rifles made in the uk will now have to be regulated with non toxic ammo.
Il not talking about shotguns! But talking to a few guys tonight at a party all aid oh well better sell the old girl……two that had been handed down from there grandfathers and are very very fine firearms.
 
The point of my post is that double rifles made in the uk will now have to be regulated with non toxic ammo.
Il not talking about shotguns! But talking to a few guys tonight at a party all aid oh well better sell the old girl……two that had been handed down from there grandfathers and are very very fine firearms.
My post earlier was mostly in jest, but if they are selling them I would be interested to know what they are and what prices they are looking for if that’s not too much to ask.
 
Same here also

Lead was already banned for shotgun this year , but legal to buy and have . Not to use . Some ammo types have gotten ridiculous in price and I’m not sure if I will be bothering much with any kind of hunting here in Norway at all if the stuff just get weirder .

That’s exactly the result they want.


Realistically a box of 25 would be plenty for my hunting a year. I spend more than a box of Bismuth shells on fuel per trip, so there’s that.
 
Now, rifles?

I lack the knowledge.

Is there a variable of internal ballistics differentiating projectiles containg lead as opposed to all copper or whatever?

Muzzle velocity, projectile mass, BC being equal, isnt the POI identical to the nanometer?
Possibly, possibly not.

According to Graeme Wright, bullet shape does affect regulation to a degree. That said, I have not noticed any significant difference using Woodleigh Hydros.
 
Sell them to me for cheap they are no longer useful to you :A Thumbs Up:

Being from Alabama I can virtually guarantee we will be the 50th state in the USA to ban lead shot…

:unsure:.......49th, Tennessee will be the 50th. :ROFLMAO:

Agree. Since them thar old English doubles will be of little use with non toxic shot to them Englanders. I'd be willing to share in your generosity; aiding in purchasing a portion of them useless fancy double guns.:cool:;)
 
:unsure:.......49th, Tennessee will be the 50th. :ROFLMAO:

Agree. Since them thar old English doubles will be of little use with non toxic shot to them Englanders. I'd be willing to share in your generosity; aiding in purchasing a portion of them useless fancy double guns.:cool:;)
What we don’t do last intentionally we accomplish through sheer political incompetence :ROFLMAO:
 
My post earlier was mostly in jest, but if they are selling them I would be interested to know what they are and what prices they are looking for if that’s not too much to ask.

+1.
 
Is there a variable of internal ballistics differentiating projectiles containg lead as opposed to all copper or whatever?
There may be, but I am unable to give solid explanation.

Some years ago Steyr hit the market with "green rifle", the one optimized for non-lead ammunition.
Where the optimization rests I dont know.

Optionally it could be a marketing trick, or as a second option non lead bullet of same weight will be a bit longer then the lead one, and in that case this may require a bit faster twist.
Of course, I am speculating on both points. However, they factually made such rifle, SM12 and CL 2 models. Can be found on their web site.
 
There is a lot of bullshit written about older British rifles . They handle mono metal bullets perfectly . I have used mono in my Purdey - no pressure problems , no loss of accuracy . Regularly use Hydrostats through H&H and WR dangerous game rifles . Again no problems . But the key is they fit . As I recall problems occurred with a US monometal bullet - they got land / grove measurements confused . I have no doubt the Rigby Shikari will handle mono bullets . In the meantime I will keep hovering up magnificent British doubles at knockdown prices .
 
Well got the news today that most lead shot and ammo will be banned from 2029 in the UK.
Which means those doubles being built will now have to be regulated with non toxic shot.
What would you chose?
Be NorthFork for me.


Ever heard of the "illusion of choice"?. You will have no choice, you'll only be able to try, to make attempt, to experiment.

You'll probably have a Barnes and a Northfork, maybe a few other choices. You'll shoot them all and perhaps none of them will regulate properly, perhaps only one will regulate.

Hence, the illusion of choice.

I haven't looked at your law, but I suspect you'll be able to possess lead ammo, you just won't be allowed to use it in the UK. That would prevent you from being forced to create double rifle rounds that may not regulate whatsoever.
 
Well got the news today that most lead shot and ammo will be banned from 2029 in the UK.
Which means those doubles being built will now have to be regulated with non toxic shot.
What would you chose?
Be NorthFork for me.
Many of us in the UK have been using non lead ammo in our rifles for many years, it works very well.

We can, of course use lead in Africa still for expanding usage
 
Many of us in the UK have been using non lead ammo in our rifles for many years, it works very well.

We can, of course use lead in Africa still for expanding usage
Not so sure once this comes in I doubt you will be able to buy any. So I recon English double makers will have to resort to using something else hence the title fine in a normal rifle you just adjust your scope to get you where you need to be. But a double is a slightly different kettle of fish.
I’ve got around 600 rounds to get through before I need to do load development for my two bolt guns.
 
Fom a pro-hunting and wildlife conservation nonprofit.:

“Shooting sports in the UK release 5,000-6,000 tonnes of lead ammunition into the environment every year. Some 2,040 tonnes of this ammunition is released into the rural environment. There are no precise estimates of exactly where this lead shot is dispersed, this is because there are no official estimates of the number of animals shot, cartridges fired, or shoot participants.”

They have a ton of great stuff posted, of particular interest to us is clear guidance in shotguns, proof, and steel shot. I see those numbers as very conservative.

Lead is a problem whether we like it or not.

It’s nasty nasty stuff. I personally put something like 90-125 POUNDS of toxic pellets onto the soil every time I go to England. Me! Casual and occasional game shot. I meet people there who shoot driven game at least twice a week from what the Glorious 12th to mid february, not counting later pigeon and crow/rook shooting. Must be nice! We shoot in squads of 8-10 guns, shoot 100-200-300 or even more birds per day with a (spitballing here) per bird average of mmm 4-5 cartridges per bird? You do the math it makes my head hurt.

I have at least another 65lbs in the magazine of a gun room awaiting my next visit and will enthusiastically place it on English soil at my earliest.

And this is all upland arable and grazing country, with lovely streams throughout feeding reservoirs feeding municipal water systems.

The game? It winds up at gastropubs, proper restaurants, butcher shops even on foam trays at Tesco. A good thing except for that lead thing.

The epidemiology is hard to come by, at least publicly, but my amateur eye can see no way there is no adverse health impact on both humans and wildlife.

Love my Brits, love my shooting, love my old side-bys, and am vehemently hopeful the ammo industry will devote massive resources to developing scalable solutions so that we can carry on at or near the same cost per cartridge without poisoning the landscape.

One last thought. Removing lead from recreational shooting also deprives the antis of a tool to use against us.

Cheers!
 
If you think removing lead from recreational shooting will do anything to thwart the antis, you are delusional.
Lead is one of the most common elements on the planet. Lead deposits exist on (almost) every continent (don't think anyone has looked on Antarctica). Often found on or close to the surface, no real mining necessary in some places. Man has been using and scattering lead for millennia, including using it for eating utensils (no longer recommended). Unless it is ingested in some quantity, or fine dust inhaled, the most likely cause of lead poisoning is eating old lead based paint chips as a child; or the more common method of getting shot (different kind of death than eating lead paint, but often referenced with "eat lead").
Currently there are several buckets weighing north of 100# apiece, a number of 100# ingots, and numerous little piles of lead scattered around waiting for me to shape them into a projectile. None of this threatens any aspect of the natural world or those of us who inhabit this planet, until it is converted into a projectile and used to put game in the freezer. I have never worried about suffering lead poisoning due to eating any of the game I've shot.
The movement to get rid of lead for both hunting and fishing (yep, going after your sinkers as well) was started by and perpetuated by those who don't want anyone to use nature's bounty for sustenance. The bunny and tree huggers will go after copper as soon as lead is banned. Did you know copper filings injected into your hide can be fatal? Faster than lead poisoning, actually. Don't ever grind on copper without good protection for your skin. Copper injected by a firearm has the same effect as when lead is used, but at a substantially higher cost. Neither is harmful to the environment.
 
If you think removing lead from recreational shooting will do anything to thwart the antis, you are delusional.
Lead is one of the most common elements on the planet. Lead deposits exist on (almost) every continent (don't think anyone has looked on Antarctica). Often found on or close to the surface, no real mining necessary in some places. Man has been using and scattering lead for millennia, including using it for eating utensils (no longer recommended). Unless it is ingested in some quantity, or fine dust inhaled, the most likely cause of lead poisoning is eating old lead based paint chips as a child; or the more common method of getting shot (different kind of death than eating lead paint, but often referenced with "eat lead").
Currently there are several buckets weighing north of 100# apiece, a number of 100# ingots, and numerous little piles of lead scattered around waiting for me to shape them into a projectile. None of this threatens any aspect of the natural world or those of us who inhabit this planet, until it is converted into a projectile and used to put game in the freezer. I have never worried about suffering lead poisoning due to eating any of the game I've shot.
The movement to get rid of lead for both hunting and fishing (yep, going after your sinkers as well) was started by and perpetuated by those who don't want anyone to use nature's bounty for sustenance. The bunny and tree huggers will go after copper as soon as lead is banned. Did you know copper filings injected into your hide can be fatal? Faster than lead poisoning, actually. Don't ever grind on copper without good protection for your skin. Copper injected by a firearm has the same effect as when lead is used, but at a substantially higher cost. Neither is harmful to the environment.
I beg to differ. In California they have done studies that prove that lead is harmful in the American style of hunting.

They found that condors have a mass dying off right around and after deer season every year. Why is that? Leaded bullets. Hunters shoot an animal, gut it, with most of the lead fragments in the gut pile, and then the condors eat the gut piles and die.

Many birds eat rocks to help their gizzard grind up grains. I’ve personally seen that after a trap shooting range went up near where I knew a large flock of turkeys lived, within a year all the turkeys were gone. By that I don’t mean dead, but that’s most likely what happened as all of a sudden I just… stopped seeing them.

They have done studies on hunters and found significantly higher lead content in their blood than the average person. Significant enough to actually measure the average lifespan loss of a hunter compared to normal, and measure higher rates of Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and lung cancer even among non smoking hunters.

They have measured the air quality when shooting and found that shooting moderate amount hard cast bullets in an enclosed space brings the lead pollution in the air high enough to be considered an OSHA violation.

Competitive shooters that shoot lead bullets have been found to have also significantly higher lead content in their blood than average, some more than triple the average despite some of them even claiming they wear gloves when reloading to prevent touching the lead as much as reasonably feasible.

You said yourself that a high enough amount of lead (and copper) in your blood can kill you. Why would you go so far to point out how dangerous it can be when it’s in your blood, and ignore the fact that it IS in your blood.

The reason copper is safer is because unlike lead, it doesn’t vaporize when shot. It doesn’t leave residue. When animals are shot with even the most rapidly expanding copper bullets, the bullet only breaks into, at most, 5 pieces. Once those pieces are taken out and weighed, the combination of the 5 have 98% weight retention, with most of the last 2% being the plastic tip. At best a lead bullet loses 20-30% of its weight, and at worst 70% or more, with X rays of dead game showing that a scientifically significant amount (by that I mean enough to measure its effects on you) is in the meat, much of it outside of the bloodshot area.

We’d still be using leaded gasoline if it wasn’t for scientists pushing to ban it for the sake of everyone’s health. The literal fall of Rome can be attributed to the rise of using lead as a sweetener in the wealthy class’s food causing insanity, paranoia, delirium, and people to get measurably dumber. Even the ancient Roman’s knew that lead was poisonous, they just didn’t care because it tasted good and was very useful.

Forgive me if I sound harsh, this topic is extremely important to me. We found alternatives for lead in literally every industry other than shooting. It’s high time we did the same. The auto industry tried to claim there is no alternative for lead in gas, but when regulation changed they rapidly made innovations and made it work.
 
If you think removing lead from recreational shooting will do anything to thwart the antis, you are delusional.
Lead is one of the most common elements on the planet. Lead deposits exist on (almost) every continent (don't think anyone has looked on Antarctica). Often found on or close to the surface, no real mining necessary in some places. Man has been using and scattering lead for millennia, including using it for eating utensils (no longer recommended). Unless it is ingested in some quantity, or fine dust inhaled, the most likely cause of lead poisoning is eating old lead based paint chips as a child; or the more common method of getting shot (different kind of death than eating lead paint, but often referenced with "eat lead").
Currently there are several buckets weighing north of 100# apiece, a number of 100# ingots, and numerous little piles of lead scattered around waiting for me to shape them into a projectile. None of this threatens any aspect of the natural world or those of us who inhabit this planet, until it is converted into a projectile and used to put game in the freezer. I have never worried about suffering lead poisoning due to eating any of the game I've shot.
The movement to get rid of lead for both hunting and fishing (yep, going after your sinkers as well) was started by and perpetuated by those who don't want anyone to use nature's bounty for sustenance. The bunny and tree huggers will go after copper as soon as lead is banned. Did you know copper filings injected into your hide can be fatal? Faster than lead poisoning, actually. Don't ever grind on copper without good protection for your skin. Copper injected by a firearm has the same effect as when lead is used, but at a substantially higher cost. Neither is harmful to the environment.

Did you know copper filings injected into your hide can be fatal? Faster than lead poisoning, actually. Don't ever grind on copper without good protection for your skin.

I find a bit of fallacy with your information.

????.....Well hhmmm.....I once swallowed a penny as a toddler, over the decades at one time or another I've had to pull multiple small shards of copper out of my skin, been cut multiple times by rough places (burrs) after cutting copper tubing (pipe) and stabbed multiple times messing with electrical wiring, from time to time I cook and eat food from copper cookware, and I have drank from copper spiggots attached to copper water pipe, and yes, I have used a grinder to smooth, straighten, and deburr a variety of copper pipe, sheeting, and wire.

BTW I just turned 68 years old this past Saturday and I saw the sunrise and sunset today.....so I'm pretty sure I'm still alive.

So exactly how long does it take for copper to naturally lay waste to me?

As for lead......I feel the effects almost immediately when I melt it, only outdoors with a fan on blowing the fumes away from me, to make round ball and bullets for my muzzleloaders.

Now if you are referring to the way copper was, since outlawed, processed. The chemical process was hazardous, in fact deadly to people, livestock, and the environment. Not sure how copper is processed today. But I would say a lot safer.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
62,028
Messages
1,361,394
Members
117,899
Latest member
JacquieWei
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

THAT'S AFRICA SAFARI wrote on tommy1005's profile.
Happy birthday Tommy1005 we hope the year ahead is filled with alot of hunting!
THAT'S AFRICA SAFARI wrote on KENDOG's profile.
Happy Birthday Kendog!
We hope the year ahead is filled with alot of hunting!
THAT'S AFRICA SAFARI wrote on chris338's profile.
Happy birthday! May the year ahead be filled with alot of hunting!
Hemmingway "Out of Africa" dinner for our clients

We love going the extra mile for our clients. The best feeling in the world is our clients going "Wow! this is amazing thank you"
Having had a successful hunt, having happy clients leave camp. There is nothing better.
Knowing that they will return again next year as a friend.
 
Top