Politics

[Tubby’s Canteen]

We're very likely agreeing and not seeing it again lol...

My position is it doesn't have to be tainted..

Trump is a dick.. so what?

Trump over states things all the time... so what?

in 3.5 years he will be gone...

So find a way to deal with it.. listen to what he says.. filter out the white noise (there is a ton of it.. and admittedly that's hard to do at times)... and get to the meat and potatoes of the matter..

He said very clearly today he doesn't want the US buying vehicles made in Canada.. or even 50% made in Canada.. he wants the US automotive industry to move back entirely to the US.. he also said very clearly that he doesn't want the US buying Canadian steel.. he wants the US steel industry to grow again and to produce all of the steel the US needs..

ok.. so that's really going to suck for Canada.. that's tens of thousands of jobs and billions upon billions of dollars on just those two things alone..

So what is Canada prepared to do about it?

Trump NEVER leads with his best and final offer (BAFO).. there is ALWAYS room for negotiation..

So if Canada wants to retain those automotive jobs.. what case does it make to the Trump administration for Canada being the best possible choice for the US?

Canada employing people and Canada making money isn't a good argument...

Could a case be made where Canadian made can be cheaper for US buyers? Could a case be made where the USG could share in the profits in some way by letting those industries stay in Canada (tariffs? but tariffs low enough that they don't kill the industry, but allow the USG get a taste of the action?)... Could a case be made where Canada keeps the ability to export cars to the US, but gives ground somewhere else where the US could benefit?

What wont be agreed to is the current status quo.. Canada will have to give something up.. there's no getting around that..

kicking, screaming, and responding with emotion wont help.. if anything that will further embolden Lutnick, Bessent, Trump, et al.. and if Canada doesn't take the opportunity to put sensible options on the table all that does is leave the US in a position to tell Canada what it thinks is most sensible (i.e. the Doug Ford tactic of making threats and offering no solutions didn't fare well at all... while the Mexico approach of telling Trump "hey dude.. we understand what you're feeling.. how about we offer to do XXXX, YYYY, and ZZZZ rather than that A, B, C, stuff you asked for.. would that work for you?" has worked for the Mexicans very well so far..

I can’t see a way forward where it’s not tainted by this period, trump speaks of on behalf of Americans not just himself. So every lie and every belittling comment about canada represents all of you. That should have a lasting legacy far beyond 3 1/2 years. Blatantly interfering in an election and weakening Canada so he has a more favourable bargaining position should have a lasting effect on relations. Will it? Who knows Canadians are apparently pretty short sighted voters we just re-elected the liberals after all. I know personally my faith in Americans has been irrevocably shaken, I used to believe that Canada and the u.s. while having differences both worked for the betterment of North America and the world.

my one hope is that lutnick and bessent are decent enough men to negotiate from a honest set of numbers and not the “alternative facts” numbers trump keeps citing. I’ve got little hope for carney to negotiate in the best interest of Canada in any event. Allowing Chinese goods in to bypass tariffs should be a good indication of his interests.

Trump is meeting with carney in Canada next at the g7 summit in Alberta. While not a political visit to the capital it’s something and I’d consider it an act of good faith on his part. How he will be received in Alberta and how carney will be received in Alberta are both anyone’s guess.

 

[mdwest]

Lutnick and Bessent are among the best in the world at what they do.. while they are more factual and direct than Trump, and likely a whole lot easier to deal with from a media/emotion/sound bite perspective.. make no mistake... dealing with them will be like dealing with a pair of velociraptors.. they are absolute apex predators.. and they are also absolute loyalists to Trump..

The truth is Trump really does represent a full 1/3 of the population (their views very closely align with his).. and roughly another 1/4 align closely enough that they would vote for him again tomorrow if given the opportunity.. so perhaps if Canada sees Trump as representing what America stands for today, the relationship will be tainted long term..

As an alternative.. If Canada can figure out a way to put a conservative government in power.. it might find that Canadians are actually more like those Americans they currently dislike than they want to admit (take on conservative fiscal policies that would have the govt looking out for Canadian interests first, take on conservative social policies that would have the govt walking away from wokeism and DEI, etc..).. and maybe the two nations grow close again..

The next few years will certainly be telling...

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Lutnick and Bessent are among the best in the world at what they do.. while they are more factual and direct than Trump, and likely a whole lot easier to deal with from a media/emotion/sound bite perspective.. make no mistake... dealing with them will be like dealing with a pair of velociraptors.. they are absolute apex predators.. and they are also absolute loyalists to Trump..

The truth is Trump really does represent a full 1/3 of the population (their views very closely align with his).. and roughly another 1/4 align closely enough that they would vote for him again tomorrow if given the opportunity.. so perhaps if Canada sees Trump as representing what America stands for today, the relationship will be tainted long term..

As an alternative.. If Canada can figure out a way to put a conservative government in power.. it might find that Canadians are actually more like those Americans they currently dislike than they want to admit (take on conservative fiscal policies that would have the govt looking out for Canadian interests first, take on conservative social policies that would have the govt walking away from wokeism and DEI, etc..).. and maybe the two nations grow close again..

The next few years will certainly be telling...

It’s hard enough trying to get a conservative government in power without trump actively working against it. That to me was the rubicon I can understand the trade issues I can see trump using his position of power to force favourable outcomes for Americans I don’t like it but can understand it , but blatantly interfering in an election was wrong with no way to spin it.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Is lutnick really that great? Bessent seems to be “better”

 

[Boyd Brooks]

I can’t see a way forward where it’s not tainted by this period, trump speaks of on behalf of Americans not just himself. So every lie and every belittling comment about canada represents all of you. That should have a lasting legacy far beyond 3 1/2 years. Blatantly interfering in an election and weakening Canada so he has a more favourable bargaining position should have a lasting effect on relations. Will it? Who knows Canadians are apparently pretty short sighted voters we just re-elected the liberals after all. I know personally my faith in Americans has been irrevocably shaken, I used to believe that Canada and the u.s. while having differences both worked for the betterment of North America and the world.

my one hope is that lutnick and bessent are decent enough men to negotiate from a honest set of numbers and not the “alternative facts” numbers trump keeps citing. I’ve got little hope for carney to negotiate in the best interest of Canada in any event. Allowing Chinese goods in to bypass tariffs should be a good indication of his interests.

Canadians didn’t re-elect the Libiturds. It is the immigrants from 3rd world shitholes that Trudeau allowed in, in record numbers that voted them back in. Elections Canada changed electoral district boundaries next the major metropolitan areas to allow close ridings to flip to Liberal, just what happened to Poilievre who held his seat for 25 years. The Liberals will do anything to win.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Canadians didn’t re-elect the Libiturds. It is the immigrants from 3rd world shitholes that Trudeau allowed in, in record numbers that voted them back in. Elections Canada changed electoral district boundaries next the major metropolitan areas to allow close ridings to flip to Liberal, just what happened to Poilievre who held his seat for 25 years. The Liberals will do anything to win.

That is exactly why the Democrats have allowed and don’t want deported tens of millions of illegal immigrants. EVERYONE is counted in a U.S. Census. The next is 2030

• “”Redistricting:
  After each census, states must redraw their congressional and state legislative district boundaries to ensure districts have roughly equal populations. This process, known as redistricting, ensures that each citizen's vote carries roughly the same weight.
  
  
• Electoral College:
  The census data also influences the allocation of electoral votes to each state. States with larger populations receive more electoral votes, which can impact presidential election outcomes. “
  
  

 

[mdwest]

Is lutnick really that great? Bessent seems to be “better”

Different animals.. but I think equally capable and definitely equally ruthless… although very different personalities and negotiating styles.. which make them a very difficult duo to deal with..

Bessent is a hedge fund guy, deeply knowledgeable in venture capital, private equity, etc.. lots of corporate raiding experience.. lots of skills in the way of global economics, etc…

Lutnick is a career senior executive… big investor.. buys and sells businesses.. etc..

Both have been doing multi billion dollar negotiations that are incredibly complex and tied to global economy issues for decades..

Bessent typically takes a low key, matter of fact approach to his work.. finds kinks in the armor.. then exploits vulnerabilities…

Lutnick is more Trumpish.. much more extroverted.. more aggressive… pushes buttons.. and gets the opposition emotional before striking… but he’s generally more “likable” from what I can tell and easier to deal with…

I wouldn’t want to have to negotiate with either of them.. much less get caught in the middle of having to deal with both of them.. with Lutnick team coming at me from the international trade and commerce angle while Bessent is hitting me from the finance and economic angle…

 

[LivingTheDream]

It wasn’t my intention to express it as thought it was one sided, the point I’m trying to convey and doing a poor job

You aren't doing a poor job, it is just the argument you are making is emotional based rather than logical.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Different animals.. but I think equally capable and definitely equally ruthless… although very different personalities and negotiating styles.. which make them a very difficult duo to deal with..

Bessent is a hedge fund guy, deeply knowledgeable in venture capital, private equity, etc.. lots of corporate raiding experience.. lots of skills in the way of global economics, etc…

Lutnick is a career senior executive… big investor.. buys and sells businesses.. etc..

Both have been doing multi billion dollar negotiations that are incredibly complex and tied to global economy issues for decades..

Bessent typically takes a low key, matter of fact approach to his work.. finds kinks in the armor.. then exploits vulnerabilities…

Lutnick is more Trumpish.. much more extroverted.. more aggressive… pushes buttons.. and gets the opposition emotional before striking… but he’s generally more “likable” from what I can tell and easier to deal with…

I wouldn’t want to have to negotiate with either of them.. much less get caught in the middle of having to deal with both of them.. with Lutnick team coming at me from the international trade and commerce angle while Bessent is hitting me from the finance and economic angle…

So the long and short of it is with a Chinese sympathizer in power were well and truely shafted on the trade front. While also shafted on resource development by his green agenda and carbon policies, if that wasn’t enough fun for one government we get the shaft yet again on firearms policies Dark days for Canada.

 

[Wheels]

….Supposedly India will cut off water.
Very fluid situation….

Love your use of descriptive language

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

You aren't doing a poor job, it is just the argument you are making is emotional based rather than logical.

Some of it is language as well conversationally there is as much French as English used in n.s. Speaking frenglish doesn’t lend itself to intelligent conversation.

 

[mdwest]

but blatantly interfering in an election was wrong with no way to spin it.

Completely agree…

We get pissed off down here with outside entities play games with our elections… we don’t even like it when people in one US state send money or pay for ads in another state to try to influence things… and we get livid over foreign influence… we’re generally not even very tolerant of foreign opinions on our politics…

If I were a conservative Canadian… I’d be absolutely livid at both Trump and the typical Canadian voter that fell victim to his game (thereby screwing the rest of the country in the process)…

 

[Wheels]

Is lutnick really that great? Bessent seems to be “better”

Lutnik is excellent. Just overshadowed by possibly the best Treasury Secretary america has ever had.

 

[mdwest]

So the long and short of it is with a Chinese sympathizer in power were well and truely shafted on the trade front. While also shafted on resource development by his green agenda and carbon policies, if that wasn’t enough fun for one government we get the shaft yet again on firearms policies Dark days for Canada.

Sadly, I think you may be right…

I’d love to think Carney just has a different world view than you or I.. and that he’d act in what he truly believes is in Canada’s best interest..

But nothing I’m reading or seeing convinces me of that… I get the impression that politics is just another means for him to feed his desire for limelight and riches (like most politicians unfortunately)…

I hope I’m wrong… I’m of the opinion that a strong (economically and militarily) and conservative Canada is good for the US…

I’d much rather have a strong and loyal smaller brother to share a border with… than a weak and angry unrelated guy on my border..

 

[LivingTheDream]

Some of it is language as well conversationally there is as much French as English used in n.s. Speaking frenglish doesn’t lend itself to intelligent conversation.

No worries, I am just use to other world leaders/governments not liking the US. It would never occur to me that another world leader running his mouth would have any influence on how I voted.

I also find it hard to fault Trump with election interference when you provide screenshots of Chinese robocallers.

I also don't find it wise to judge a whole group of people based on their leader, or what their leader says.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

No worries, I am just use to other world leaders/governments not liking the US. It would never occur to me that another world leader running his mouth would have any influence on how I voted.

I also find it hard to fault Trump with election interference when you provide screenshots of Chinese robocallers.

I also don't find it wise to judge a whole group of people based on their leader, or what their leader says.

We’ll him taking credit for it in a joint press event with him and carney makes it awfully hard to deny his interfering does it?

 

[LivingTheDream]

We’ll him taking credit for it in a joint press event with him and carney makes it awfully hard to deny his interfering does it?

For what it is worth he takes credit for everything.

 

[mdwest]

I also don't find it wise to judge a whole group of people based on their leader, or what their leader says.

Lots of truth in that statement…

Trudeau was a disaster in every possible way… I have a good number of Canadian friends and at one time worked with a pretty good number of Canadian military folks… and have really enjoyed spending time in Canada.. to include during the Trudeau years… I never let my distaste for Trudeau influence my opinion of Canadians (other than questioning how can this idiot continue to stay in office???)

The same is true for South Africa… some of my dearest friends are South Africans.. and South Africa is one of my favorite places on earth… Zuma and Ramaposa don’t change my opinion of the people or the country at large.. I just think they are in a shitty situation where shitty leaders continue to lead despite everyone in the country knowing they are shit…

This is even true of the handful of Russians I’ve known over the years… Putin is an absolute stain on society as far as I’m concerned… but I’ve still had great experiences in Moscow both times I’ve visited.. and still very much enjoyed bullshitting around with the muscovites I worked with while there…

I find that good people are good people.. and shitty people are shitty people.. no matter where they are from or who their leaders are..

Shitty leaders end up in power for a variety of reasons… Trump, Carney, Trudeau, Zuma, and Putin all got into office (as have hundreds of others) despite a significant number of their country’s population detesting them…

 

[LivingTheDream]

We’ll him taking credit for it in a joint press event with him and carney makes it awfully hard to deny his interfering does it?

I still don't see how he interfere, he didn't make robocalls, he didn't stuff ballots or suspend rules.

He talked shit and apparently that became the #1 issue for a majority of Canadians. That is unfortunate for you guys.

Look it happen here too, people didn't like his mean tweets so we voted for a vegetable. Trump running his mouth isn't election interference, no matter how much credit he takes (which again I believe is done to agitate you guys instead of actually thinking about what he is saying).

Its like arguing with Latina, she starts the argument with something so illogical, so defamatory, so crazy that you focus on that, instead of whatever this issue is.

 

[mdwest]

Its like arguing with Latina, she starts the argument with something so illogical, so defamatory, so crazy that you focus on that, instead of whatever this issue is.

My starter wife was an Italian… they use the same tactics and strategy lol…